Cross Bow
 

Hey all I was wondering about cross bow's, I just recieved my pernit due to medical issues and I was wondering if anyone uses the Ten Point cross Bow, I was talking to a vendor at the HUnting and fishing expo and he was tryna say that that particular Brand has the least amount of problems than any other cross bow on the market!! is that just a more exspensive product verses the other brands? also he was tryna tell me they are the most accurate brand and there top model can shoot upto 100 yards. sounds a bit nutty to me just wondering if anyone here works in or owns a bow shop that can give me some info on this or anyone who has used mulitiple brands of cross bows Thanks guys

RE: Cross Bow
 

Ten Point does indeed make a very fine product, though I would find it difficult to imagine a better and more trouble free xbow than the Excalibur line. Any recurve is simpler and less prone to problems than any compound.

RE: Cross Bow
 

My father-in-law is also looking at the 10Point line of crossbows. He looked at the Slider model and loved it. It comes equiped with a red dot and acu-draw and is only $600.00, hes 65 this year making it legal for him to hunt with a crossbow in Wi. Hes really anxious to get one as soon as he can.

RE: Cross Bow
 

Being as I worked in a store for three years and sold a few crossbows I had to learn about them. IMO the only brands I would own would be Ten Point or Excaliber. They are the two made with quality in mind.

I haven't dealt with Excaliber, but have with Ten Point. With the few problems we dealt with their customer service was A-one. Companies don't just give away lifetime warranties for nothing. Usually they put together a good product and don't expect many problems.

Most of the ones I saw having the most problems such as severe string creep, broken limbs and such were Horton and Barnett. These cost less to begin with, but...........

NOW, that being said, anybody who tells you that corssbows are good for shooting anywhere near a hundred yards just don't know anything about them. They are still a short range weapon, meaning about the same as a regular hand held bow. Yeh, yardages can be stretched farther, but the accuracy of the shooter is paramount. When ytou start stretching things out to 50 yards and beyond you need to question your ethics.

RE: Cross Bow
 

Maybe you should call Bowtech . The Rep there told my son that they have guys that work there and shoot softball size groups at 100 yards . The bows are rated at 405 fps . I'm only 65 and pull a 70# compound but by the time I get old , maybe NY will open up to the Crossbow and i'll buy one of those Bowtech Strykers ! Maybe the $1600 price will be down by then and I can use part of one of my Social security Checks to buy one ! :eek:

RE: Cross Bow
 

Why don't you call bowtech and ask them if they suggest you hunt deer with a crossbow at 100 yards. I am almost for sure I know what the answer will be. And if it isn't a resounding no the the bowtech I own may be the last one I own.

I can shoot 5 or six inch groups at 70 meters with my bow and it only shoots around 200 fps. That doesn't mean I am going to go out and shoot at live game at that distance, that is just ignorant and unethical in my opinion.

Cross bows are still short range weapons and you need to practice with them to be proficient and know where they will shoot at what distances. 400 fps is not going to give you a flat trajectory out to 100 yards. There will be some serious hold over at that distance and you better know exactly how much and exactly how far your target is, down to the yard at that distance. Not to mention wind drift and time the arrow is in the air. It had better be VERY relaxed game at that distance, especially considering how loud most X bows are.

Oh, and we actually have a cross bow forum if you want to check it out.

Paul

RE: Cross Bow
 

I don't have experiance with Ten Point, but I do with the Excaliburs, I don't doubt their claim of being the most accurate and reliable of all the hunting x-bows.
I have seen a compound x-bow explode on a dry-fire, not pretty. I can change the string on my Excalibur Exocet in my tree stand with no tools, and it has been dry-fired (160lb bow) with no problems. X-bows made for hunters, by hunters. Simple design that works well.

That being said, visit the crossbow forum here, there are some very knowledgeable people there, most are die-hard Excal or 10pt, lots of guys own other brands, but they can't really argue effectively against the 10pt or Excal guys.

Ten Point = top quality expensive compound
Excal = top quality affordable recurve

RE: Cross Bow
 

Hey Paul - I can quote you an article with an interview with a Horton Rep that said Crossbows are great for executives that don't have time to practice . He further stated that a person could become proficient with a crossbow in about 30 minutes and it wouldn't be necessary to spend long hours like compoud & Stick Bow shooters . The ideal alternative for folks that don't have time to practice . With Horton's advice , I can buy a crossbow (when they become legal in NY) and quit practicing my shooting . Then with the info fromanother Crossbow Manufacturer, I can slap those bolts out to 100 yards rather than lure the deer in to 30 yards or less . Remember , like everyone says , us hunter's have to stick together ! :eek:

RE: Cross Bow
 

i jus gotta give my .02 cents.......well first of all,ishoot a barnett and i love it.and i'd buy another 1 without hesitation, i know of 2 stryker bows that have crap'd out on another forum, wow who woulda thought that a 1,600 dollar xbow , would"blow up"........hmmmmmm, not to mention thiers a few guys on this forum who have had thier excal's break down too.....hmmmmmmmm, also u guys talk about being consistant with ur accuracey, well guys i hate to say it, but im a pretty hardcore shooter and i quarntee i can take a non name brand bow of ebay, and shoot just as consistant as you can with ur high dollar bows.....so if u ask me, buy what u can afford, and have a dayum good time learning how to SHOT PROPER...

RE: Cross Bow
 

Come on guys. This thread is starting to sound like an anti-crossbow thrashing.

Here are a few thoughts from someone with over 25 years with a crossbow.

1- Yes some of todays crossbows are accurate out well past 100 yards. Heck in Europe, they have shoots that incorporate targets from 100 - 150 yards. If my memory is correct, one shooter would get 3-7 inch groups in the 125 yard distance. But these are arrows shot at a stationary target. Deer or animals can move after you pull the trigger and before the arrow gets there. That is why crossbows are still the short range weapon as their vertical compound cousins.

2- Simplicity is to me the most important. With a bow with wheels, you are Dependant on a proshop for repairs or adjustments, even in the simple task of changing a string. Everyone realizes that when hunting you might need to change a string, the recurve is simple to do.

3- As for the just check out what crossbow has won the most national championships, I think you were receiving the normal sales pitch with them trying to make the sale. BTW, Excalibur has won more crossbow championships then the other brands.

No matter if you choose the compound or recurve style, they will both have their pros & cons, you will just have to deciede which bests suits what you want.

Good luck.

(forgot to include)
4- You still need to practice with a crossbow. Anyone telling people that there is not a need to practice is just being irrisposible and only trying to make a sale. You need to learn the flight of the arrow, so you can judge a shooting window which your arrow will travel through. You still need to practice to become efficent enough for hunting. Yes, you do not need to practice as much as you would with the vertical bows, but you still need tto practice.

RE: Cross Bow
 

John, as was wisely said earlier crossbows are still a short range hunting tool. There was good information as well as some "tongue in cheek"(I hope). It still requires an ethical hunter to get a deer into the same range as any compound bow. The whole set up is energy inefficient and the short arrows loose energy quickly. Thirty yards is still the accepted norm with a bit further in certain rare circumstances. If anyone thinks they can just pick one up and start slaughtering deer they are sadly on the wrong planet. They should search for a planet that has different laws of physics. Saying the words deer, crossbow and one hundred yards defies any normal intellegence and anyone saying this should be regarded as retarded. Shooting at a target at 100 yards sounds like fun though and is on my agenda this summer!:)

Having gotten that off my chest I will say that Ten Point is regarded as one of the best bows available. You will not kill a deer any more dead using a 400 ft/sec bow as you would using a 250 ft/sec bow. Both will pass through a deer at any ethical range. So any of the Ten Point line up will do the job. There are a number of other crossbows to pick from. You will get what you pay for but in some cases you are buying much more than you could possibly use. I personally like the simplicity of the Excaliburs. Once you buy an Excal you probably will never have to bring it back to the shop for anything. You can even make your own strings like I do.
If I could only have one bow and there were no recurves it would probably be a Ten Point Slider. One bow to use for anyone that came along. One other hand if you look at my signature I like variety. I have five bows and the Hoyt Vulcan will make it six.
If I had to pick one bow to have the least amount of problems then the Ecxalibur Vixen is the hands down winner day in and day out. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. Drop me off on an island with one of those with some strings and arrows and I'll die a fat old man! I'll leave all my other bows behind without a second thought.

RE: Cross Bow
 

Ed, will all due respect :eek: your demented comments and thoughts are obtuse and irrational. I hope you are responsible enough to appologize and let everyone know you re joking. If you are serious then lets see your quote from the two reps. If you do not come up with those quotes we all know where it came from and what the purpose of the miss-quote was for.

RE: Cross Bow
 

I am not here to bash other CB lines! Find the one you shoot and like the best and buy it. Shooting distance,i have an Excal Exocet 200 and sighted it in at 35 yds. fer a 3-D shoot this past sunday. My arrow dropped 18" on the 50 yd. Elk target. Thats only 15 yds. farther. At 100 yds. I would be holding more than 10' over my target and thats all guess work. If you sighted in yer CB fer 100 yds. then you would be shooting about 4' high at 30 yds. You always need practice! CB or any other type of Bow!

RE: Cross Bow
 

Every now and then somebody says something so dumb it keeps a smile on my face for the whole day! This is hands down the winner, it will keep me grinning for at least two.:D

RE: Cross Bow
 

Dnk - (sorry - haste makes waste and being in a hurry to type with two fingers doesn't help ! )
Here is the one from Horton ---------
Ottie Snyder , who is the media specialest for Horton Manufacturing , said in the July 2006 issue of Whitetail Journal on page 28 , " Hunter numbers continue to decrease, however the crossbow is fairly easy for even a beginning archer to become extremely proficiant within a very short time. Youngsters , women and people who have never considered shooting a vertical bow can enjoy a crossbow and begin to hunt quickly. Too , older hunters who can't pull vertical bows any longer have found the can hunt effectively with crossbows ."
page 30 ---------
When asked what the largest section of the hunting population that is starting to utilize the crossbow , Snyder said " So far it looks to be youth and women .But we are seeing a number of Urban upper-echelon -management hunters who spend 5 - 6 days at the office and have had to give up archery because they are so busy and don't have enough practice time to be proficient with vertical bows . But a hunter can zero in a crossbow in 30 minutes and then be ready to hunt without having to practice for hours like he or she will with a longbow. Today people are so busy that when they have the opportunity to go hunting even if they havn't had time to practice to be proficient , the crossbow will still meet their needs ."
Once again , Mr Snyder is the media specialist for Horton Manufacturing , a company that has been building Crossbows for 42 years .


As for the other bow company . It was the result of a phone call . My son questioned the sales Rep at a company as to why the scope on their 400+ feet per second Crossbow was a 1X (no magnification) and the Rep told him that they had guys in the factory "that were shooting softball sized groups at 100 yards with the 1X scope". Call me a Liar if you wish but that was the conversation . [:-]
[/align]
[/align]Now the thought process on this is to get more hunters out there . Get the women and kids in the woods and enjoy nature . And feel bad for the poor guy cooped up in the office all week long that doesn't have time to practice with a bow and can be proficient with a crossbow in 30 minutes of picking one up( according to Mr Snyder's interview) .:eek:
[/align]And remember , we hunters have to stick together ! :)
[/align]

RE: Cross Bow
 

Alright Dnk, you got the srory straight now?:D

RE: Cross Bow
 

I have both the 10point and the excaliber,either will do they are both excellant quality. As I don't know what your health problem is I would only say that it would be wise to study the cocking mechanisms and be able to relate them to your particular situation before making a decision. 10 poit has the finest crank there is not even a comparision,but excaliber has the best rope cocker. It would be wise to shoot them if possable. Lee

RE: Cross Bow
 

Ed, your:eek: puts very little towards any authenticity of your conviction to stick together. I also see no quote that says "I can slap those bolts out to 100 yards rather than lure the deer in to 30 yards or less."
Lets give this another shot.

RE: Cross Bow
 

Ed McDonald no where in the statement did they say that you did not need to practice with the crossbow. All they said was that they (the shooter) did not need to do all of the practicing which is needed to become effective with the crossbow that is needed for the vertical bows.

You still need to practice, just not to the degree as you would with the vertical bows.

As I said above, you can be very accurate (with a good crossbow) well out past 100 yards. The quality crossbows are capibile of doing just that, but that accuracy will depend on the ability of the shooter and you WILL NEVER GET THAT GOOD WITHOUT ""PRACTICE"".


The thing that gets everyone is that even if it is accurate out to and past 100 yards, that does not mean it is effective to hunt at those distances. It takes the arrow time to travel 50 - 60 yards, let alone to 100 yards. At 60 yards, a deer will have ample time to move enough for a complete miss or in the worst case, a bad hit. Our need as a hunter is to make sure you have eliminated as many possibilities for a bad hit as possible and since you have no control what the deer will do after you release the arrow, you should not take those longer shots. Leaving it to chance as to if the deer will move or not is just not acceptable on the ethical side of hunting. The topic of stating you can hunt out to those distances, as we have dealt with them many times before from statements from the anti-crossbow crowd, just gets people that know better on the defensive. Again, no where in their statements DID HE SAY TO HUNT OUT TO THOSE DISTANCES.

then your statement:
[quote][ Now the thought process on this is to get more hunters out there . Get the women and kids in the woods and enjoy nature . And feel bad for the poor guy cooped up in the office all week long that doesn't have time to practice with a bow and can be proficient with a crossbow in 30 minutes of picking one up( according to Mr Snyder's interview) ./quote]
That might be what you read into that statement, but your wrong in that. To be accurate with a crossbow in 30 minutes is achievable if you are talented enough to achieve that. But just because you are accurate, does not mean you are ""PROFICIENT"". To become proficient with a crossbow, you need to become accurate with it, become comfortable with it and be able to handle it with ease and that only comes with practice.

People need to remember when they are looking for information on new items that some companies will stretch the truth and others will say statements where you can read into the statement what you want to hear. That is just what advertising is all about. Again, that above statement you quoted, no where did he say that it was ethical to hunt at 100 yards, only that it was accurate out at those distances. Also he did not say that you did not need to practice, only that you did not need to practice as much as you would need for the vertical bows.

RE: Cross Bow
 

Ed Mcdonald, No pain, no gain, right Ed? How do you explain the fact that a forum member here [Pydpiper] just got a loaner compound from another member[Dnk]and w/ no previous experience was shooting hunting acceptable groups in less than an hour? Or the fact that 4 of the first 5 arrows I shot out of a friends compound in the late 80's was a coffee cup size group at 25 yds?I blew the first shot never having pulled a trigger on a bow prior to that day.

As to the extreme range stuff, here's a few facts you might not be aware of. They shoot alot of long range target xbow in Europe. Mid range trajectory on an Excal Exomax when shooting at 100 yds is over 25 feet! The long range guys have special mounts for their scopes that have elevation adjustments as the majority of scopes don't have enough adjustment to sight in that far. Add broadheads to the equation, and things change dramatically. Yes, the new 405 fps xbow [made by a vert company] comes w/ a red dot w/ points for 20 -40 - 60 yds. Shame on them, they know better. I see you are from NY, not many xbows there but I bet they play golf. Think of it as a choice like using a wood or an iron, different tools, same game.

RE: Cross Bow
 

My.... My... MY......[X(]....Interesting.......

RE: Cross Bow
 

The first two arrows that came out the compound I borrowed were in a quarter size group at 20 yards. The next couple were spread a bit farther out, but still respectable. Prior to doing that I had never in my life picked up a compound bow. The next day I took the bow to a range, again putting every arrow inside of 3" circle.
I have had my crossbow just a tad over 3 months, scope and all I can not get the groups I get with the compound after just a few shots, especially as I get out towards 30 and 40 yards. I no longer buy into the statement that the things are so difficult to shoot. I can shoot the compound better after 10 shots than I could a premium crossbow with a scope after thousands of shots.
It is becoming very clear to me that it is about a fear of a hunter having competition in the woods more than the weapon in hand, that is low. I am going to become a compound shooter as well as a crossbow shooter, but in my short time on forums like this I have learned that the people behind a crossbow are consistently pro hunting, regardless of the weapon, while at the same time anti's like good old ed are going to be a strong deterrent to any sport people like him participate in, especially when there is competition.
The sport of hunting could do without people like you ed.

RE: Cross Bow
 

I need to shoot my Pro Fusion so I can talk the talk and walk the walk,maybe I should put the house on hold :Dand shoot..........the snow is just about gone and my 4 targets are by the door waitting.....

RE: Cross Bow
 

Good gracious . I am trying to be positive about Crossbows and getting slammed . Gosh , I just don't get it . Crossbows aren't just a thing of the past , they are a thing of the future also .
Folks are going to believe what they read and what they hear when they call a Company and speak to a Rep .
The article in the July WhiteTail Journal Magazine quoted Mr Snyder as saying " we're seeing a number of urban upper-echelon-management hunters who spend five to six days a week at the office and have had to give up archery because they're so busy and don't have enough practice time to become proficient with vertical bows . But , a hunter can zero in a Cross-bow in 30 minutes and be ready to hunt without having to practice for hours like he or she will with a long bow . Today people are so busy that they have the opportunity to go hunting , even if they havn't had time to practice to be proficient , the crossbow will meet their needs. "
When NY State legalizes Cross-Bows , I am jumping on the band wagon !!!

RE: Cross Bow
 

I would like to thank everyone for there feed back, I appriciateit alot and I can assure you allfor what it's worthI would never take a shot past what I would normally do with amy bow, I was just curios if they really could shoot acuratly that far, I have never practiced past 40yards anyway because I have never shot a deer past 30 yrds most of my deer where less than 20. so I guess its the same asa bow the more you practice the betteryouget and brands mean nothing. cool
Thank you everyone.
John

RE: Cross Bow
 

I think any one that suggest shooting a deer at one hundred yards is clearly out of meds. The guy had to be talking about how accurate the CB is out to that range, but I bet if you ask him about talking that shot on a deer with that CB he would have to say no. A CB sounds like smacking a yard stick on a table as hard as you can. Maybe a 100 yard shot on a white tail would be OK, cause he would either have to be totally deaf and then the shot would be OK, or if he was a normal whitetail he would be able to hear it and move out of the way completely before the arrow arrived. I think long range shots with a CB is totally misunderstood. A CB makes way to much noise to be able to do much good on anything past thirty yards. Unlike alot of Compounds that are quite and can sneak off farther shots it simply does not work with a CB. As for the CB taking the long shots and being able to go out and kill alot of long range deer, check this link out and see what people are doing at long ranges. Look at past polls in here and you will see the vast majority of us say the 20 to 30 yard range with some saying 35. Here is a link that often shows we are doubled that all the time!

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2024906

With all that said, I will have to say scratch six and make it seven!![&o]

RE: Cross Bow
 

Also, not meant to be a bad thing, but I would assume by all the posters this was made in the regular forum and then moved to th CB forum right? Not a bad thing, just curious.

RE: Cross Bow
 

Yes, it started out in the Technical forum for compound bows. I want to add that I have nothing against cross bows. I have even owned one before, but didn't hunt with it. I may get another one in the future just for the heck of it.

After having both, I actually prefer a compound bow to the cross bow. Sure it takes a bit longer and a bit more skill to use one well, but once you get the hang of it and practice I feel they have more potential. Just my opinion though, and I will admit I have not shot a high dollar X bow. I had a 150 lb Barnett back in the mid 80's.

Like I said before, there are plenty of people that shoot out to and beyond 100 yards with regular bows as well. It does impress me that you can do it with a cross bow being that there is really nothing you can tune like on a compound bow. Makes the compound a bit more forgiving in my opinion, even though the skill level may be higher in the start.

I'm not going to argue that you could get a cross bow and probably get good with it fairly quick. I could shoot mine ok after about a week of shooting, as long as I knew the distance. Granted mine was not one of these new super fast models, but still they don't have that much range.

I entered some specs into my archery software to simulate a crossbow. I went with 375 fps and a 425 grn 22 inch bolt (22/64's dia).

Zeroed at 30 yards you would be 1 inch high at 20 yards and about 3 inches low at 40 yards. So this would give you decent flat shooting weapon out about 40 yards. That is actually fairly impressive to me.

Now to say you could practice for a week or so and then go deer hunting at 100 yards? Lets take a look at that. At 50 yards you would be 10 inches low but still have PLENTY of power to kill almost any living creature on this continent. I guess if you were good enough to judge the difference between 40 and 50 yards and could hold over 10 inches accurately it could be an effective 50 yard weapon. Travel time would be near a half a second, it better be a relaxed deer because they react really fast if they are alert. And like said, Xbows are not the most stealthy weapon you can use in the woods.

Now at 100 yards you would be a bit over 80 inches low. If you can hold over a deer sized target 6 ft at 100 yards I will be VERY impressed. And you better know the yardage down to the yard because there is a 10 inche difference in drop from 95 to 100 yards. If you can do this with less than a month of practice with that weapon you are one of the best shots I have ever seen. Not to mention time in the air would be a full second. And wind drift with a 10 mile an hour cross wind would be almost 5 inches. Probably more with larger fletchings and a fixed blade broad head. Still plenty of energy to kill game though providing you could hit it.

I am a pretty decent archer and I think I would pass on the 100 yard shot at game. Heck I am pretty picky about 100 yard shots with my H&R ultra slug gun and it groups 2 inches and is dead on at 100 yards.

Paul

RE: Cross Bow
 

Paul, I like your attitude. It smacks of intellegence and knowledge. Without question I find my compounds more accurate than a crossbow. My hunting partner needs small birds the size of starlings removed from his kennel area from time to time and I bring my Ultra Tech because I cannot nail them on the ground with my crossbow.
Thank you for adding to this forum rather than stirring.

RE: Cross Bow
 

That was a good post Paul! I vote we give him at least to atta boys!! LOL. Serious though, good post for a CB from a long bow shooter!! It's nice to see people out there with level heads!

RE: Cross Bow
 

As far as I'm concerned, Paul is Level headed in all the forums on HNI.:)