RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

Thats why I bought a couple of each! Now I've got the best no matter which side you're on! LOL
I like my Tenpoint and also the Excals. I shoot the Tenpoint better but if I was going on a trip out somewhere I would take the Excal, a couple of strings and stringer and not worry. Each has it's place for me. Besides he who dies with the most xbows wins.

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

Dan what do you have tied up in your 2 ExCaliburs?? I have $1500.00 tied up in my ProElite and yes it came with everything accudraw steady eddy hardcase pratice arrows hunting arrows and many other accessories, everything you would need to be able to use the crossbow,, take it out of the case fine tune the sighting because they come boresighted,, and go to the woods and go hunting..

and I would put my ProElite up against any other crossbow so far as accurcy also,, it is way more accurate than I will ever be..

;):):D

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

I don't know what awshucks has in his, the Phoenix can be had fer $410.Add rope cocker, stringer, extra string half dz. arrows its still under $500 and ready to hunt! :DDeer don't stand a chance inside 30 yds.[8D]It will tear the covering off golf ball at 30 yds.[:o] Just put that green front bead on it and watch it get torn up after you are sighted in of course![:-]All the others just stand and watch this bad boy work![:@][&o]hahaha No use to hang yer heads just get an Excalibur the next time you need a crossbow to do the job right!:D;)[8D]Thats right i be instagating, but i knowed who's xbow will take all the marbles home at the end of the day.:DTry but don't cry![:o][&o]

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

Smoke, I "almost" have 3 Excals, Exomag,older Exocet,and a Buckmaster Max-Point which Excal makes everything but the split carbon limbs and 175lbs no let off cams(which makes it mightyyyyy fast, oopps I was not supposed to mention that).............Thanks for everybody that WELCOMED me to this forum, appreciate it...........And my bowsshoot almost as "GOOD" as I dooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And to answer the question about Geritol, It keeeeeps us old folks regular, so we do not havejuvenile temper tantrums(at least keeps it to a mininum)

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

Htoler: I'm in pretty close to $1500. This includes about 3 dozen GT LII's and about 18 Slick Tricks, two levels mounted, and an Excal xbow stand, and several extra/different strings. I don't have a Steddy Eddie, but I made a rest out of an old aluminum crutch. The only time I use that is in my ground blind, cause there's not much extra room and I have to pack a load on atv anyhow. If I ever get a 10 pt it will be to use in ground blind off of my rest, as they like all compounds are a little too front heavy for my injured shoulder to shoot off-hand. Butthey are alot more compact than a recurve. Btw: my LII's are $65 per dozen from Danny Miller. And, I'm not counting the $ in targets.

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

jaygal, are arrow speeds really important to you?

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

Yes,yes and yes again, it will greatly mininize range estimation(the greatest problem with archery equipment)....But speed without accuracy will do nothing to put meat in your freezer(you will spend too much time pulling your arrows or bolts out of the dirt or whatever else you might hit by accident) I must not be the only one, every bow & x-bow company ads are related to speed(even the custom recurves and longbows,"purists" that they are,have ads that surpass some compounds of ten or fifteen years ago)How about the gun manu's with the short magnums, how about Hornady light mags, how about thenew 17cal(which by the way is the hottest round to hit the market lately) how about the 204 Ruger, they can hardly keep them in stock. And do not forget Weatherby, he made a good living making the fastest and I might add accurate round. The 257Weatherby is probably still the premier round for almost any medium game, very very fast and accurate. Mr Weatherby said it best "speed kills" but without accuracy it means nothing..........

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

I used to be in the speed game with compounds and 3-D's and all that. Then one day I went from 325 fps closer to 300 fps with the same bow, different arrows. With the same clicks on my sight from 20 yds to 40 yds I lost less than 1" drop at 40 yds. Speed is overrated. Anything that shoots from 290 - 320 fps is very close under 40. At deer size game under 30yds it makes no difference.

Besides if you take away all the error making things what can you blame a miss on?

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

Hey y'all like the State Highway Patrol said SPEED KILLS! We have wood-alum. and carbon duckers down here. Yer arrow best be doing some moving out at 30 yds. 270 fps or better start off or you be collecting deer hair here and there. I know there are a few compound xbow shooters here. So don't get uptight about my razzing y'all, just trying to learn ya about the best xbow made. Yup its those Excaliburs! Gee it don't get any better than that. I am so glad that they ( compound xbow companies)are starting to fix those lead pull triggers, on the new ones. So maybe they will fit the older models, hope so. Y'all need all the help you can get! [&o][:o][:-][:'(]:D

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

Jg7: I'm still amazed at your set-up. With a red dot [seem to recall that's what you're using] that's got to be real user friendly for hunting. I'm using V-zones on both Excals, and am really impressed w/ them actually doing as claimed. Doesn't matter what bow, arrow or fps, they adjust to right on the money at all ranges for me. I'm an accuracy freak, lol. Got one of those .17 hrms, T/C Contender Carbine, oversize hinge pin, and BSA Sweet 17 scope. Not sure how well it compensates, but grey squirrels to 150 yds are stew. Also got a .223 bbl for it, the thing loves cheap Win ammo, 46 gr jhp's at 3600 fps. Both shoot under a dime at 100 yds. Get the .223 ammo at Mal-Wart, 40 rnds for $12 and change. You seem very knowlegeable about all this stuff, am I correct in my assumption that to a point we can get the same k.e. w/ light and fast as w/ tad slower and tad heavier? Thanks again for letting us pick your brain LOL

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

Yes you can, to a point, all things being equal, depending on broadhead and bullet construction.....The formula being velocity squared times mass divided by 450240(will give you ftlbs of energy), you can see that increasing the velocity a little and then squaring it will increase the penetration a bit more than increasing the weight, which is not squared,(that means say, with a 85g Thunderhead and the same construction arrow) by going a little faster, will in theory have more ftlbs thus more penetration....In bows there is all kinds of thingsthat effect this, one is carbon vs alum bolts, the carbon's harmonics are usually better than the alum bolt which means the carbon will absorb more energy from the string thus being usually quicker at the longer ranges than the same weight alum. I have tested this thru the chrono both arrows being of equal weight the carbonmore than usually had more down-range speed and energy............Hey Smoke Do not believe your local "Mounties" if that were true all the drivers at Nascar would be dead after one race................

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

Jaygail did you shoot over a chrony at 30 or 40 yards?

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

I think there's much gobblygoop going on here! Carbons are less straight than most aluninums so carbon's ability to transfere the said energy is less. We also have to remember that unless we are using cut on contact broadheads we probably have to rely on sectional density rather than just energy. Jack O'Connor and Bill Weatherby were marvelous story tellers and probably a realy good shots but mostly they had the time and resources to pick and choose thier animals and shots where they did not need sectional density. Bottom line, if you want penetration you have to go heavy. Does anyone know the weight of the arrow that killed an elephant? I think Dan does. And I think most of us know why it wasn't a high speed arrow. Most of us who can shoot at decent and honest ranges do not need a crutch like speed. This is supposed to be a sport about hunting with our whits not becoming equipment junkies or gaget guys.

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

DNK, Yes to the question, did I shoot thru the chrono at 20,30,40,&50 yards, the carbons were going faster than equal weight alums...Have you not heard when someone shoots carbon vs alum off the same bow how much less noise they make? Straightness---GTPro-Hunter .001 Easton-x-7-.001 seems about the same to me, and I guarantee they(GT) will stay that way until broken or lost(like to see Easton alums give that kind of guarantee).We can argue about equipment all day long, but you cannot argue with the math, that stays the same wether you are throwing rocks or bolts or bullets. And you are right I am an equipment junkie,( I made a living from this sport)but it has not stopped me from killing over 150 whitetails and I did not start until I was 27years old..............

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

Elephant equipment:

Stock Emax
Dbl walled carbon arrow w/ weights
Magnus two blade 125gr cut on contact
900 gr. total weight
255 fp
125 ft lbs k.e.

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

Jaygail, with in reasonable ranges the deer will not hear the string or bolt. I think the point is that you like buying stuff and that is good. Thinking that more hi tech junk will not buy you more deer. I like buying stuff/junk as well but I don't get illusional and think that my light speeds or my full metal jacket axis arrows are going to buy me more deer.

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

Dnk: I'm thinking maybe you missed his point. I took it to mean w/ his set-up [light and fast] using a red dot, the flat trajectory was what he was after, and along w/ that you can be less precise on range estimation. It would seem to me that if your deer is between 10 and 40 his set-up will easily give ya a double lunger.
i could see this working if a guy did alot of stalking, and I bet it would be a real winner on 3-D. Now ya got me confused. Can you splain what you meant by alums being straighter than carbons? I know you're not a carbon guy, but I thought the carbons were the best in that respect besides not bending? Enlighten me O Northern One!!

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

I do not know how the he!! we ever got to elephants, never have I seen one from any of my stands!!!!!!!!!!!! But I can give you an excellent example,I have a device that shoots a Easton xx75 2512(25/64in wide 12thous wall) 16ins long, 235g weight,75g WaspSST, total weight 310g. The arrow is going just a tad under 460fps that is 146ftlbs of energy...The person who designed this, used this set-up in Africa on Cape Buffalo(now I realize this is not as large as your elephant) but the shot entered(slighly quartering) behind the ribs(by the way they are almost 4in thick) cut the rib in half and exited the neck and still had enough energy to stick in the ground...I would kinda bet you if this arrow had enough energy to do this it would bury it self complety in your elephant(whatever that has to do with anything) He also makes another one that shoots over 600fps with an arrow that weighs over 600g that is almost 500ftlbs...Speaking of Canada, the guide we used to use for spring bear in Quebec, his favorite round for moose(rather large animal) was the 22Hornet "he" said a round where the neck joined the head dropped them in their tracks, so much for fast-moving light rounds.....Of course this is all "gooblly gook"...I guess when gun season comes to your neck of the woods you would not use one of those "explosive" devices with all those fancy optics sitting on top because it will make you a " bad bad hunter" and if you do I hope you keep your shots to under 25feet................................p.s. if your into weight I think Thunderhead makes an African head that weighs almost 300g screw some of those on your lead-sled alum. arrows and keep your shots to under 10 feet?????????????????????

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

What I am saying is that for hunting at reasonable ranges you are better off with a slightly slower moving bolt with more weight to break heavy bones and offer more accuracy. Yes with 3D ranges use the lightest. Unless you go to ACCs or something really really fancy aluninums are straighter. This is a moot point being a shaft that runs off a rail but just a point being made to clear the air. I am not an aluninum man really. I just have tons of them still in the 2117 size, yes not made any more. Just the recommended bolt way back then. I do own 4 doz carbons tho and see no reason for one being more durable than the other unless one is a duffus and does not pull straight back. Course if you do maybe you'll poke yourself in the johnson as well! To be honest the hot set up is no better in the hands of a responsible hunter than the standard set up. Personally I would rather have my xbow last longer buy using conservative set ups.
Yes Charlotte its easier to build straighter aluninum shafts than carbons. Check out the specs on the Easton site. The XX78 is .0015 almost all of the carbons are .005.
Don

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

Dnk...I do not need to go to the Easton web-site, I was an Easton dealer for 15years, for quite a while they were the premeir arrow on the market nothing came close to what they were capable of building(even though they were extremely nasty in their business practices, a story for a different day). That was then and now we come to a different day, carbons are Better and as straight as any alum,ALUM ARROW .001, CARBON .001 ......Weight carbon +or-2g per dozen the same for alum. that is where carbon has made up ground in the last 5years....As far as large bones on the animals I hunt, I can smash thru both shoulders on any whitetail that I will encounter, in factit makes them a lot easier to find when they usually fall to the ground.......I have also shot 10 deer with the same arrow, try that with your alum.

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

You make it sound like carbons are all straigher and most of them are not. Most of the fancy shafts like the axis are .005 and the lowly/commom alu shafts are .002 and the cabons cost twice or more. The XX78 is not Eastons finest or straightest either. Some how you think .005 is better than .002. The shafts that you are talking about are not commonly available everywhere. Besides couple of thou isn't going to make a pinch of coon's you know what difference. The biggest difference in a lot of "better" equipment makes is confidence. If you make a living from this stuff then you know that better than I do. Carbons are a marketing tool. A cheaper alu will kill just as well as a carbon. Like I said earlier I have both and more carbons now than alu. I have nothing against them whatsoever and I am not going to tell myself I will harvest more game with them. Sure if I were to shoot a 3D then for many reasons I would use carbons, hands down. I would hate to be aquainted with anyone that needs carbons to make a kill that an aluninum shaft wouldn't do because he would be an alien from Pluto.

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

Well folks i be a poor Tn. hillbilly and what i want is not always what i can afford. [&o]Like most of you i have a taste fer ribeye steak, :Dbut a bologna is what i can afford after payday. [:-]After that its cereal or grits or mac-n-cheese! [&o]So i use alum. xx75 and not those ebay special xbow arrows! [:o]I buy xx75 orange or camo regular shafts and cut them down on both ends fer my xbow arrows. [:-][8D].003 i think is right runout on them and thats plenty good out to 40 yds.:)I spect its like being hit by a mack truck with those 2219's!:)Y'all just send all that excess chump change down here and i will do a makeover on most of my xbow hunting needs! ;)[8D]

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

Hey Dnk: Ya think Excal's got a distibutor on Pluto? LMAO

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

And what the he!! do they hunt there(pluto) Heard that it is cold there so I better bundle up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

LOL, parka time! I wonder if they have seasons. I bet you can hunt at night that would be awsome.

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

Ta Da i have come to highjack this thread! Only things to hunt on Pluto areold fat fur balls! Plus only those equipted with carbon arrows are allowed all others need not apply. You also must use worn out hog and coon dogs fer the hunt. Gee i almost fergot the main rule, only pompus old geezers may lead the hunt!:D:D[8D][:o][&o][:-]

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

Shuckydarn that leaves me out , but heck i rather hunt deer anyway. :DI can't be quoted on this but a birdy or was it a Toad told me that most compound xbow shooters were pompus wind bags that pulled their own chain.[:o][&o]:DGlad i have a recurve![8D][:-] hahaha durn old has beens![:o][:-][:-]

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

Gee my last post should get me lots loving replies, come guys i knowed you have in you. Lets rocknroll! My alum.arrows can shoot rings around those carbon ones! Ya want me to go clockwise or counter? 10-20-30 or 40 yds. make it lite on yerself![:-][&:][8D]:D:D

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

I think all of us are going nuts waiting for Sept/Oct. I'm thinking about getting a 3-D deer and having one of my buddies go hide it in the timber for me LOL I've also got a real big, mean rooster I'm thinking about trying my Slick Tricks and Zwickey grapplers out on. I can't decide which bow to use or he would already be zoo food. I'm slowly getting back to 30-50 shots a day, but the darn target shrunk in all the rain we got.

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

I knowed that rain part is right. Left my deer 3-D outside, its an 8 pt. Buck. Got up this morning and it was a spotted fawn with nubs sticking up![:o][:-][8D]:D:D

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

Smoke.....How many times have I got to tell you I have 2.5 Excals...instead of all that bologna(the only bologna I eat is made from the deer I kill) and you can not eat all that hair you keep cutting of your deer( it gets stuck in your teeth, we will not go any further with that one). Do people in your neck of the woods still have any teeth??????? Have you ever thought about signing up for the HUNTERS FEEDING THE POOR??????????????? Maybe I can sell you some of my very very very used carbons, they will still be straighter than Dnk's brand new alums!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

WHOA! news flash this just came in over the xbow wire, a rule the i didn't knowed about on the fat a$$ed fur ball hunt. Being chased by worn out old hog and coon dogs and pompus old windbagged geezers being held on pluto! after a 30 minute head start all the young hunters may join in and 1st. place goes to the one who bags the pompus geezer! The prize is a new Excalibur Vixen![8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D]

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

Hey the one y'all be called quail7, we has false teeth. Real ones were knocked out in Bar brawls. Were fighting fer the deer meat and cold longnecks! So yur the fella that has got 2 1/2 xbows that be shooting them there carbon tooth picks. Son you gotstid to getreal here, ain't know self respecting he coon gonna let ya kill him with those stealth fighters! I have to admitt i be curious about that there half a xbow, will it shoot ? How in the He11 do ya shoot such a thang? We is the poor don't got to sign just be inline and whine alot! Really ya got to be a joshing me about using them there carbon fishing arrows on deer![:o][8D]

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

Now y'all have to bare wid me cause my Mrs. told me after reading some of these here posts, tell ya i be ignorant and somewhat unlearned. That i mean know harm to anyone. I like to read and talk about hunting deer wid a xbow. I am waiting til that nanny brings her wee one to the salt lick. Then i can get this years 1st veal meat! Them old Bucks is too hard to chew![:o][:-][:-]

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

How dumb of me to forget, I forgot that you poooooor hillbills never seen one of those stealth fighters.......And as far as signing up to receive some other productive hunters deer could they not let you put your XXXX on the line??????????????

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

Hey thats a winner, my Mrs. can read and write she can sign. SONNN you had best sent them Excal's down here to me. Best time to hunt be in the mornings before it gits to hot. If that happens i will sweat dragging the deer to my house. Those Excal's are just what granny ordered, cept i didn't knowed they made a half one. It maybe too refined fer me you can keep it as you be needing one yerself![8D]

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

I'm thinking Smoke needs to get out of the cabin or stop eating so much road kill.At least he has enough left to know the Pheonix is the finest bow north or south of the Mason/Dixon. I've been getting 3 inch groups at 30 yards with chunks of broomstick. Straight arrows/bolts to yah.

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

Its good to knowed some folks use the best as in Excalibur! I be jus messing wid folks abit. I do want them to know the accuracy is there fer the taking and you can have it fer as little as $315 fer xbow Vixen! You jus hav to love it![:o][:-]Can't be beat[&o]but you can spend $1000 and more to try![:o][:-][&o][8D]

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

Just got back from the cottage at the lake. I'm with Mike, the Vixen and aluninum arrows is like meat and potatoes. I have an old Exocet but I really like my Vixen. Heck, the Vixen is the most likely Excal xbow to be seen on a 3D Tournement. Some one tell me what difference I'll see in carbons. Like I said earlier, I have carbons as well but I cannot see any difference. They both shoot minute of death on whitetails and they both shouldn't be used on the same target dot. I see no difference between my XX78's and my Axis or my CX Maximas or my Light Speeds other than if I am dumb enough to shoot the same dots and dent and arrow. Oh yes you're right! I have no fear of shooting my aluninum arrows because they won't do this!

RE: How to figure down range velocity and energy??
 

And further more, LOL, Dan I am not a carbon hater. Thats all I have for my compounds and I have more carbons than alunuinums for my xbows. I just don't think they are any better.