Arrow Question
 

I jist go my new bow in today! It's a HORTON real tree explorer 175. It came with 4 easton xx75 2219 arrows. Question # 1, is this the best arrow for my bow or should I shoot carbon and Question # 2, is the 1/2 moon nocks better then the flat nocks? Thanks for all the help in advances

RE: Arrow Question
 

Sorry I don't know but I am surprised no one else give you any info. This post should give you another chance at an answer.

RE: Arrow Question
 

Moeskeeter, I shoot stock Horton Aluminum bolts that they sell in bulk. They may not be the bestbolt, but they are fairly consistent in weight and I know I can get more in a hurry if I need them.

I can keep a pretty tight grouping at 20 yards even off handed, IMHO its all in how you practice and what you practice with.

Personally I like the halfmoon knocks, but others have noted that they prefer theflat. There may be a reason to shoot one or the other but I am not aware of it.

Hope this helps you, God Bless!!

RE: Arrow Question
 

If I were you I would stick to what the xbow came with untill you become proficient. I have been shooting xbows for 10 years??? and still have not swtiched over. I am more concerned about minute of death rather than minute of angle accuracy. That doesn't mean that aluninum isn't really accurate at all but I think awshucks has done a bit of research. PM him. I think that you should experiment with different shafts as well as tip weight. I do not have a stinking clue about moon nocks. Ask The Squirrel.

RE: Arrow Question
 

,,,,, I can tell you from test i did last September, that carbon will fly straighter then the aluminum. I have two Barnett Quad 300's. I set up form a bench and measured off 10 yards to be very sure of the distance. I was shooting from a bench. The Aluminum flew higher. The carbons flew straighter. Reference the 2nd picture below.

The 1st picture is a 10 yards shot from one of my treestands. The decoy is 10 yards out from the base of the tree and I am 18 feet up in the stand. The aluminum bolts are in the ground on the other side of the decoy. Those are carbon bolts in the decoy.

RE: Arrow Question
 

Moxie, how much straighter does the carbon fly, I cannot see from the picture.
Are you saying that the aluninum bolts passed through when you say that they are on the other side of the dec?
Looking at the picture they look equally accurate, but then again, I'm not there.

RE: Arrow Question
 

i personally shoot the half moon nocks with the 2219's. i shoot a horton 150 legend and i'm probbaly the best shot here:Dbut seriously i havent put any broadheads thru it but i am shooting the 100 grain bullet tips off of mine. i can hit a flys wing wong at 20 yards:Di shoot the carbons just because i dont want to take a chance bending them. i have been told by the guy at gander mountain who is a dedicated horton shooter to use the carbon goldtips for the tenpoint. but i'm stickin with my good ol carbon striker MX:D

RE: Arrow Question
 

Various xbow makers use moon nocks due to the type of triggers and string holding devices. Yer best bet is to go w/ what they advise. I'm real happy w/ 20" Gold Tip Lazer II's w/ EPOXIED brass inserts. 431 gr. w/ 100 gr. points.

RE: Arrow Question
 

As far as arrows go - it's usually a personal preference whether to use aluminums or carbons. The aluminums usually (not always) weigh just a little bit more giving them a little more punchwhen the hit an animal,but they need to be checked for straightness before & after shots. The aluminums are generally cheaper & if you have an arrow straightner they are more durable since you can fix most of the small bends. As far as carbons go, they are said to be "either straight or broken". Thats mostly true - I have found some carbon shafts with imperfections & they will not spin true. When using a hard target...Block, Glendale Buck, etc. the carbons get beat up bad. When removing the arrow from the target alot of guys will squeeze the shaft and damage will occur-especially below the fletching. Also, I've had inserts stay inside the targets-the glue will not hold and pulling the shaft out will keep that insert wedged inside the target.

On the issue of flat vs. moon nocks-the manufacturer normally knows best. Years ago on my first crossbow-a Horton, the recommendation was flat caps. Nowdays, the recommendation id for the moon nocks for most of the Horton crossbows. The reason the "moon" is there is for string alignment. Thebows that need the string to line up in a certain area need the moon nock. Shooting flat nocks out of this type of crossbow will generally have poorer arrow flight.

RE: Arrow Question
 

Excals explanation on flat vs. moon nocks: If the "fingers" holding the string back pivot above the arrow on the deck, the string is pushed down on firing. If the pivot is below the above, there is a tendancy for the string to ride up [briefly] which is why those bows use the moon nocks.

There was a big posting on another forum, which I can't find btw, where a guy that worked for a wheel xbow co. explained all the different triggers that co. used, and which models had the better designed systems.

Not to sound like a salesman, but Excal uses the same trigger unit on all their models. Their latest sales literature I recently got w/ an order claims that they have less than 1% warranty claims. I think you'll all agree, no matter what you shoot, that's a pretty good thing.

When I replaced my alum inserts w/ brass, I used two-part epoxy, and haven't left an insert w/ tip in a target yet. And, the order I got was a pair of Danny Miller's arrow-pulling pliers. Best $11.00 I ever spent. Treat yourselves!!

RE: Arrow Question
 

Here my 2 cents! Alum.is good but bends during shot, called paradox. Carbons are usually lighter and faster and stiffer almost no flex when shot. Now the Engineering? why flat and half moon type nocks! It has to do with quality control of close tolerences of rail and trigger for precise alignment. A half moon will catch the string over a wider range of + or - of tolerence. That being said, the others that use a flat nock are built to tighter measurements. They don't vary much as they are ofhigh quality trigger and rail systems. You asked and there it is, and i won't tell you what i shoot!:DI LIED, Excalibur!

RE: Arrow Question
 

ARROW SELECTION

RE: Arrow Question
 

Dnk,,,,, In the 1st picture, the aluminum bolts went over the decoy and are burried in the ground. I dug them out. The ground was very soft and wet at the time.

The line above the carbon bolts in the second pictures was where I place my 10 yd line of my scope for all 4 shots from the bench.

I could have readjusted my scope but felt very good about the carbon bolt flight and left it where it was.

RE: Arrow Question
 

Gaget head! I makes sense to me but still........ur a gaget head. I got that from a very reliable source! Not telling who said that. Good research tho.

RE: Arrow Question
 

Atta Boy Smokepolehall, you make my Ten Point Xbow look better all the time. Built to tighter measurements, high quality rigger and rail system. I just knew my flat nocks meant something but didn't know exactly what until you explained it so very well. LOL Thanks pal,
BuddyBo

RE: Arrow Question
 

Moe, I read all the posts and I did not see any info on minum weight all bows have one, I know barnett recommends 3 grains per pound 150lbs
is 450 grains, my excalibur is 350 grains, don't know it for Horton. But if you go below this you can trash your bow and some carbons will be too light, I perfer to go over the minimum to take care of my bow. Whatever you shoot make sure the weight is there.

Tar Heel

RE: Arrow Question
 

Can I use carbon bolts on my Excalibur?
Carbon arrows come in an assortment of weights, and as long as the total mass weight is above the our minimum recommendation for your model (350 grains) and the outside diameter is large enough (.300") they shoot well. Are they worth the extra money? Maybe...maybe not, they stay straighter and penetrate slightly better, but they cost 1.5 to 2 times as much as aluminum. Excalibur is now selling a carbon shaft by Gold Tip which is the same O.D. as a #22 shaft (.343) and similar weight to a 2213.[*]What arrow should I use on my Exocet?
Exocets are at there best with 2216s .Heavier shafts just don't give enough extra grunt to justify their velocity loss. 2213s shoot really well but don't use less than a 100 grain point with them and don't use them on bigger game than deer.

[*]What arrow should I use on my Vixen?
The Vixen is really a toss up between 2216s and 2213s. 2216s give a little better flight and are better on heavier game like Elk, Bear and Moose, but for whitetails a little bit of "get there fast" goes a long way, so for them my vote goes to 2213s.

RE: Arrow Question
 

Agreed

RE: Arrow Question
 

DnK, did you noticed in my post,


As long as the total mass weight is above the our minimum recommendation for your model (350 grains) and the outside diameter is large enough (.300") they shoot well.

RE: Arrow Question
 

Yup, your both correct but I still use a slightly heavier bolt than needed for two reasons.
One, its a whole lot easier on your bow
Two, the heavier the bolt, the longer it stays on the string, which causes it to absorb more energy from the bow which gives the bolt more energy, which allows for more penetration through bones, which means less deflection off of bones, which means more deer and less tracking. All this is theory which means I may not know what I am talking about which means
The Squirrel is gonna bash me, which means I said which means too much!
Some stupidity aside as long as you stay with a 22 or 21 sized arrow/bolt yu ok. I would think if it gets too fat the bolt will start getting pushed unevenly. Still I would rather shoot the heaviest that my bow likes which is some where around 450 grains. Heavier means quiet as well.
Did I misunderstand what you said Reb?

RE: Arrow Question
 

Rebel is right about the width and I looked ut the min. weight for Horton and it is 415 grains, but they cheat on their speed chart and use a 385 grain arrow to get speed.
Tar Heel


There's More to an Arrow than Speed
*PLEASE NOTE: Arrows of less than 415 grains should NOT be shot from any compound crossbow. Using arrows weighing less will void the warranty of the bow, could damage the bow and could result in personal injury. The results shown below reflect using a 385 grain arrow which was used for test purposes only.
Arrow Ballistics Comparison




Distance
(yards)
Vertical Drop
(inches)
Speed
(fps)
Energy
(ft. lbs.)

0
- -
345 359
112 110

10
+2 +2
338 352
108 106

20
0 0
331 345
103 102

30
4 2
323 338
100 98

40
13 10
316 329
98 96

50
24 20
309 320
90 87

60
37 33
301 311
86 83
Red: 426 grain-arrow
Black: 385-grain arrow
Tests conducted with a 200-pound Hunter Max 200 and a 100-grain point. Actual results may be more or less, depending on particular arrows used.

RE: Arrow Question
 

I use the alum. 2219's 20" long use 100gr. head. My reason is i like a heavy arrow for great penetration, the plus is easier on xbow and it helps to dampen the noise. Another plus is the fact it uses much of the limbs energy so vibration is limited, and limbs live a longer life!:D

RE: Arrow Question
 

the carbons I'm using are recommended by Barnett for the Quad 300. As I said earTier, I was just amazed at how flat they shot.

the 2x3 buck I shot las October 29th, was about 12 feet out from the base of my API Telescoping Packmaster and I was approximately 18 feet up. I aimed behind the right shoulder, high. and watched the bolt enter the ground from behind its left front leg before I heard the string stop. I used a 125 grain tri blade. I had gotten both lungs and the heart. He traveled about 50 yards before he fell over dead.

It's lke the rounds I make for my 270 Winchester. I've used the same hunting load since the early 1980's, and had only one doe run off for a distance of 25 yards. This carbon bolt and broadhead combo work very well and I'm staying with it.

RE: Arrow Question
 

Everyone I have talked to about arrows, have recommanded Carbons.:)

RE: Arrow Question
 

[hr]


Arrow velocity of 200 fpsArrow velocity of 225 fps
Arrow velocity of 250 fpsArrow velocity of 275 fps
Arrow velocity of 300 fpsArrow velocity of 325 fps
Arrow velocity of 350 fpsArrow velocity of 375 fps
Arrow velocity of 400 fps

RE: Arrow Question
 

I understand that carbon arrows are the cats meow fer some folks. Their are others like me who just plod along with the old alum. and kill our just the same. Like i said there are several reasons i use them. I haven't had a deer get away yet! I hope they never do, besides those carbons cost more and i be a poor man.[:o]

RE: Arrow Question
 

Mike, the next time you go and by bolts check out Beman's line, the thunderbolt was at the archery shop for cheaper than aluniunum. The other thing to do is to see if any vert bow hunters are using any shafts that you can cut down to an appropriate length.

RE: Arrow Question
 

DNK those are good tips and info, thanks.:)

RE: Arrow Question
 

Alot of people don't understand why horton has the halfmoon nocks and I did not until I got my new Horton. I was using the new carbons that came with it and loved them but wanted to save on them so I got out some old hortons that had the flat nock on them and they went all over the place. But as I was shooting I noticed one arrow was always doing good and hitting its mark. After closer inspection of that arrow and the others I noticed that it was a halfmoon and not flat. I went to my local bow shop and he said with the new hortons you have to have the halfmoon nocks because the barrel is not flat. They have what is called a
Microflight arrow groove. I dont now if the lower end ones have it but its like the end of your barrel is like an arrow rest about 3/8 of an inch, and then the entire barrel is cut out more than what the arrow needs to be centered. When you half moon nock is being pushed buy the string the arrow is actually lifted out of the barrel and is only resting on the very front of the barrel as it is being shot. It is the same as a regular bow with only the string and a rest tuching the arrow as it is being shot. On the old hortons the flats were ok because they did not have this but you can get poor shooting with the arrow in full contact of the barrel the entire length. If you use a flat nock in this barrel as the arrow gets to the end it will be spooned or pushed up at the end. It is another precise thing that horton has that improves their quality. As far as alum. or carbons I like the carbons better. They don't bend and they are either straight or broke. With alum. they can be slightly bent and youmay not be aware and then have poor shooting.

RE: Arrow Question
 

hey hotburn! havent seenya in a while! pm is goin your way

RE: Arrow Question
 

Very good post there mister!