RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

This should come as no surprise , but I disagree wholeheartedly with datamax on this one!
I'm am so pi$$ed that some moron from my state had his head up his arse and decided that this feral cat issue would be a good "problem"(first time I've ever heard of this "problem") for hunters to solve . I'm even more embarrassed that the majority of hunters who voted , thought it was a good idea.[:@]
It would have been alot easier to just take out a full page add in USA Today saying "Anti hunters - Come to Wisconsin and Fight Us Ignorant Hicks"

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

IL Rancher

You are only a few counties west of me (Will co.) I'd like to know where you have seen quail. I have seen a great decline of quail to the point that I have to go as far south as Effingham to find good coveys. Sure there are some spots up here but not like it used to be. You will be hard pressed to find quail in the northern section of Illinois. The pheasant populations have also suffered greatly. While they are still widespread in the state, their numbers are not like they once were either.

There is many factors for this ie: decline of natural habitat, cultivated fields closer and closer to the fence lines, tree lines, creeks etc... this all takes away from the roosting areas these birds need as well as cover. But one factor that I can help control is the coyote population and yes the feral cat populations. Bowfanatic, you would be supprised as to the amount of damage feral cats do to the game bird populations.

So yep I shoot them....all year round as a matter of fact.

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

BOWFANATIC - how do you propse to kill all the varmits then thats doing harm to wildlife ? The problem is real, just like coyotes, its exists just like coyote problems and hunters take action on them, don't they ? 5 pages of guys, just like you and me, that'll shoot a coyote if for nothing else than to help curb the varmit populations that have boomed in the past few years because of the loss of trappers/trapping.

Popular or not, feral cats are an issue. Do some reading on Austrailia and what they've been battling. I use to trap and caught a few wild cats - they're just another form of varmit.

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

The tripleS technique! Shoot , Shovel , & Shut up!

For this to even be a "hunter issue" in this day and age is assinine! It's not bad enough we have anti hunting groups trying to take away our rights to hunt game animals , edible game animals , which is what keeps alot of non hunters on our side , now we want to make it legal to shoot any cat seen wandering in the woods??(<sorry for the long sentence but I'm pi$$ed) That will definately push the fence sitters off the damn fence!!
Oh , and "our" (<not mine) arguement is that the "feral cats" hunt , kill , and eat , game birds to survive , so we need to kill them so we have more game birds to kill??? Can you see the moronic irony in that? If I can , you can bet your arse that all the anti hunters , along with the non hunters can.
Anyone , I repeat , ANYONE who thinks the feral cat issue belongs on a hunting referendum anywhere , is either a complete idiot or oblivious to the challenges we already face against the anti hunting community!

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

Oh I get it, we need to shoot them, just lie about it huh ?

Brilliant strategy there

Why do we shoot coyotes then ? So we can bolster the deer population for us to hunt. Why have we eradicated wolves, mtn lions, bears etc ? We are the predators ........ theres no room for any others. The ecosystem is all out of whack thanks to humans. Thats reality, like it or not.

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

If you dont "get" the just of my last reply , you never will!

Sad! Truly sad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This coming from someone who took a stand and left this place for advertizing a "canned hunt" because it "gives hunters a bad name"
Did you actually read my post? Or are you just automatically tuned into a arguementive response to anything BOWFANATIC writes?
I dont get it.

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

Its tempting to do that, I admit !

But no, I see feral cats and feral dogs are varmits not unlike the way I see coyote, fox, skunks etc etc. SSS practices for grizzly and wolf have worked brilliantly haven't they ?

And in the end, PETA will hate you anyway even as politically correct as you're trying to be [:o]

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

I understand your way of thinking but the problem I see with it is this.

It is estimated by some that feral cats take far more game birds (at least here in Illinois than hunters do) I will try to find the source but it's been a while since I read it. The artical went on to say that the number of feral cats (again I will use Illinois only) is on an alarming rise, infact faster than all other game bird preditors including coyotes. Their hunting skills are also far superior to coyotes as well. They get to the nests and destroy them.

The problem is people don't give them the credit they should. Most see them as cute little furry harmless animals that you can take home and make pets. The fact is they are vicious and relentless preditors and if not put in check will cause great harm to the game bird populations.

So for you to think hunters shouldn't get involved in this fight I need only ask: What if cats killed deer the way they do game birds?
I bet you would have a different opinion then.

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

We have wood piles and tree lines on fence lines BigJ. I see Quail everyday on my farm. Numbering from sometimes just 5 or 6 to seeign coveys in the dozens this winter. We have a 200 acre piece of ground that has only 120 acres farmed. The rest is scrub grassland (Actually sand prairie) that we don't do a thing too and it is surronded my oaktrees and black walnuts. The Quail are THICK in there for much of the year. Our farm is 2000 acres but we only ranch about 600 acres of it, the rest is rented out to a crop farmer. The 600 acres is broken down like this (40 acres of grassland with trees mixed around it with about 8 piles of downed trees that we pushed together to give wildlife good shelter, 60 acre Alfalfa field, drive around it in the mid summer and on 1 out of ever 6 or so fence posts there will be a quail. 165 acres of real nasty pasture that is barely grazed because much of happens to be the outlets for drain tiles. It's wet, but never underwater. Lots of rank grass and good cover for game animals. Lots of shrubs. 80 acres of dry pasture with 1 mile of tree line around it. Lots of quail hover around back there. 75 more acres this year are in OATS and BARLEY. Some of the best feed possible for game birds. The other 75 is being planted in another pasture with those same crops as nurse fields. Oh, There will be Pearl Millet planted behid the one 75 acres to be used as grazing. That crop will get mature and seed shater will be everywhere. Great for birds. The last 75 is an Alfalfa and Clover mixed with grass pasture. This one grows real tall and provides good shelter along the fence lines for nesting areas. The rest is homesites and Alleyways and a pens. One 7 acre pen that has animals on it only during 1 or 2 days in the spring (AI) and than is left to grow wild. By fall if i don't mow it (Usually don't) the weeds can be as hight as 7 feet tall. And yes, if you mow it you see Quail and Rabbits everywhere. Our average field size is probably 60 acres on this part of the farm and we have more than 12 miles of fenceline. It helps. ALOT.

We moved here in 2000 and our Quail and Pheasent populations were huge but had a very hard winter that year. The next year we had almost none until we started managing for the wildlife. Not to hunt the birds or rabbits but to allow some balance to come back. To be honest, I can give a flying fart about the Pheasant population, it is the Quail that I care about, sorry, they are the native animal not the ringneck. If Prairie Chickens were around here than i would do whatever i could for them. Yes, I keep hearing that Quail are down but refuse to blame the Yotes or Cats for it. 1) As I keep saying there is not a Feral Cat problem around here at all. 2) As soon as we increased habitat we saw an explosion in chicks every year and the fall numbers of Quail are truely good and would be even better if the neighbors didn't blow them to hell every fall.

the people who complain the most about lack of quail around here are the same people who spray round up on every weed, plow up every fence line and than burn the posts instead of leaving the old wood as a shelter and plow from road to road and mow or spray the roadside 6 times a year. It is stupid. They than go and plow up the fields in the fall which removes the stubble as any sort of shelter and the left behind corn gets buried. Either practice and promote policies that enhance habitat or stop complaining about the rabbit and Quail numbers being down. My favorite to this day was a guy saying he left some trees standing for cover on his fence line but the only birds that used them were the hawks to kill rabbits and stuff. I said really. He than pointed to the trees he had left. One tree, ever 400 yards or so...Oh, god.

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

Bye Bye yote.;)

I might keep the fur if it is a good one.

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

Yeah I would. I would keep the hide and make a rug out of it.

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

I couldn't agree more. After reeding your post I believe you when you say you have quail and I commend you not only on what you do but your way of thinking as well. I wish the rest of the state would do the same.

My family has property in southern Ill. and we have pretty much done the same as you (less acres) some of it is for hay but most is left for habitat and hunting.

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

Don't get me wrong.. The farm is managed for cattle but that doesn't mean you can't do nice things for the wildlife too. They are not antagonistic goals really.If I had my way the rest of the farm would be planted down in stuff besides corn and beans and would have a lot more cover. Maybe next year this will happen but I will probably have to bang my head off a few brick walls before it happens. There are 4 places on the property that I would like to put in a system for game birds and another that I would like to manage for waterfowl. Takes money and we don't have unlimeted funds so we generally try to do things that work towards both parts of our goals. More feed for the cows and more feed for the animals. Millet works great as a cow feed and they shatter a lot of the seed onto the ground for gamebirds to chew on. This was a compromise on our part because there are things that would give the cows more feed but give the wildlife none. That's okay.

What we really want to to work on are about 20-40 acres of ground around some wooded areas that would be real good for improving deer and turkey habitat. We shall see how they work. Biggest problem there again is how to do this with available funds and benift both parts of the "business" (We don't sell hunting rights or anything like that. But I see it as my psyciatric business because it relieves a lot of my stress). the other thing we have planned, if we ever get on the rest of the farm, will be planting about 12 miles of windbreaks 4-5 trees thick. It will be nice but it will take a long, long time to get there. That is okay, my grandchildren can appreciate it in 40 years or so.

We looked at a place down South... Big place but don't know if it is going to happen... That place has...Potential to be something special.

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

Yes , with a bow but not a gun. Tan the hide

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

silent assasin thats not there fault, they have to survive somehow. but i would cap a yote if it was around noon. i dont want to blow my chance at the 14-18 pointer at my grandmaws :D

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

Triple S practice for grizzly and wolf?? Dont know where that came from , but one is a hunted species , the other is federally protected. I wouldn't shoot either unless it was to defend a life or I was on a legal grizzly hunt.

Back to my point. So you feel the feral cat problem should be a hunter issue? I take it you had a change of heart then and you feel the canned hunts are perfectly acceptable?

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

I know this question wasn't for me but I would like to answer it if I may.

Yes I think the feral cat problem should be a hunter issue, when it comes to the destruction of game birds, why shouldn't it? It effects the game bird populations thus effecting hunters no? I can't see how it's not a hunter issue. If not put in check great damage will be done by feral cats here in illinois.

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

Why shouldn't it? See my other post!

It effects song birds a hell of alot more than game birds! Should be a bird watcher issue no?

Well lets see. Animals which are "hunter issues" , ie either eaten , or taken for the value of the hide , which the latter happens to include a species which is considered a nuisance , but still worth money none the less , and are commonly mounted.
Does a cat fall anywhere in that category? Will you eat them? Will you mount them? Is there a market for their hide?:eek:

Take a look around. Have you noticed the NATIONAL media attention this subject has gotten just for showing up on referendum in Wisconsin?
I've seen (written) and heard some pretty nasty stuff about hunters in Wisconsin , just two days after the spring hearings. Alot of the negativity came from NON hunters. Notice I didn't say anti hunters?
Yeah , we're already having to defend our rights to hunt , trap , and fish , to anti hunters , who are viewed as extremists by some of the non hunting fence sitters. Now we have the fence sitters thinking WE'RE the extremists "dumb redneck drunken hicks" that want to start shooting cats also.
F'ing brilliant!

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

I absolutely DO think varmits should be kept in check by Hunters. Who else is suppose to do it or does it as well ?


And yeah, out west the Triple S's are well known and used often on grizzly and wolf. Neither are a wanted species, both are shoved down people throats and both get shot at a lot. Like you're proposing us do for feral cats ?

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

Would I take out a yote while hunting deer? Sorry I all ready have as a matter of fact quite a few and will again if I get the chance.
As far as the cat thing go`s

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

Since when do you get to decide what animals are "hunter issue" animals or not. Who agreed to your criteria? So CWD isn't a "hunter issue" either because it's not a game animal and you can't mount it or eat it? No it IS a hunter issure because it effects the game animals that we hunt.

I doubt it very much since game birds roost and nest on the ground and song birds don't. I would like to see that proof. But that's becides the point. It sure as hell should be a "bird watcher" issue as well. Just because it effects other species dosen't mean we should just ignore it. Maybe if the "bird watchers" got off of their butts too as well as hunters something would be done about it.

So your stance is because ignorant un-informed people might look at this the wrong way we should just fold to the media and the tree hugging left . So we should just sit back and not say or do anything and let these cats destroy both game birds and song birds? All because you don't want to ruffle the non and anti hunters out there? F'ing Brilliant!!! Because your scared they might take away your deer hunting? Great attitude to have. I'm glad our forefathers didn't think like you. I'm glad they had the balls to stand up and say and do the right and correct thing. I'm glad they didn't say "hey guys lets tone it down, we don't want to rock the boat here" where the hell would we be now if everybody thought the way you do? Sometimes you have to stand up and say what's right no matter how it may be received by the other side. My God man grab a set!

The bottom line is simple, the feral cat issue needs to be addressed. It's clear the "bird watchers" out there aren't doing it so we should because it does effect us!

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

yes i would and have taken yotes while hunting.

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

It's my fricken USA born right to voice my opinion , on anything!!!! Will I decide (for the hunting community)? Unfortunately , I'm but one vote(which was cast) so I guess just I , by myself , wont decide which is right. But you can bet your arse I'll be the thorn in your side until you wake up and SEE what damage this whole issue is/will do for hunters.

I have no idea where you were trying to go with the rest of that paragraph. "So CWD is not a hunter issue"? Last time I checked , CWD was a disease that is attacking deer , which we hunt , and we eat , and we mount. A disease we know absolutely diddly squat about. Dont even try comparing CWD to this issue.

Since you said "besides the point" , I wont educate you on nesting/roosting habbits of game birds.
If you'll look back on my posts you'll notice I never said anything about "ignoring" the issue. I did say "it SHOULD NOT be a hunter issue". Anyone who cant see the logic in that is either ignorant or just loves to argue!

Thanks for that quote! It makes my point alot easier.

These "ignorant un-informed people" your refering too are Don & Betty across the street , the Jones's next door , the Fockers on the corner.Oh and none of these people were anti hunters. Ask me again. Are we "folding to the media and the tree hugging left"? If you'd like to show your grandkids how to hunt , you'd better start picking your battles wisely!

You are fricken clueless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let's see , the anti hunters , along with the non hunters , which would happen to be the rest of the fricken world , against us hunters???? Yeah , I'll pass on that battle Einstein!

Teaching our grandkids to hunt , so they can teach their grandkids also!:eek:

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

I would shoot that yote dog right where he stood and leave him there and hope another would come along to eat him then I would shoot that one too.

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

You can't pass - thats what we face right now in this country

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

You don't need to. I have been hunting upland birds since I was nine, that makes 31 years in the field. I think I know the roosting and nesting habbits of game birds. The feral cats are getting into the nests/eggs and destroying them, plain and simple.

The last time I checked , a feral cat is an animal that is attacking Pheasant and quail, which we hunt, and eat, and we mount.

I don't care who they are or where they live....infact I hope they live next door so I can talk some sence into them. The point is if they already think that way then they ARE the tree hugging left, can't you see that. Left unchecked they will absorb what the media tells them. They won't go away and by NOT standing up for what is RIGHT your correct, we won't be able to teach our grandkids how to hunt.

Why do you assume the non hunters will side with the anti's???? The way I see it if we don't say anything then the non hunters will get swayed to the tree hugging liberal left. It's our job to educate the non hunters why the feral cats need to be curbed. No you would rather not say anything and just kill them in secret. Great thinking Einstein! What happens when these people start getting caught killing cats?? How would hunters look then?? I'll tell you..... like a bunch of law breaking yahoo rednecks thats how, and all because you don't have the brass ones to speak your mind and stand up for what is right.

Give me a break! you admit there is a problem but won't support the people who want to do something about it.:eek: Great friend to hunting you are. I said this before....I bet you would not think this way if those cats were killing your precious deer.

For the record I'm not talking about going through the neighborhood shooting every cat I see. I'm talking about the feral cats that are out in the country killing game birds. Animal control can handle the intown cats. The last time I checked pheasants and quail don't roost/nest in your alley or garbage cans. Animal control won't do anything about the cats in unincorporated areas out the country and you know it. So who?

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

I would like to expand on something I said. I think hunters should take a bigger roll in how animal control curbs the feral cat problems intown. I say this because alot of those cats end up out in your fields killing game birds too. I think more pressure should be put on the animal control units especially in towns that are having big problems with stray and feral cats.

Bowfanatic, I'm sorry if I came across the wrong way, I am just very adamant about this problem. I thought about it and I agree with you IF you are talking about intown cats. While they still pose a very big problem, because left unchecked they will venture into the wild. I don't see any good light being shined on hunters if they pick up there guns and start shooting them. I think there are better ways to go about it than that. But I also feel hunters SHOULD be in the forefront leading the way in explaining why and helping eliminate these pests, because by doing that the gerneral public will understand why the feral cats need to be killed and thus won't have such a "blood thirsty" preconception of hunters.

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

Two things here Data , first , yes we can pass that battle!! If we get our heads out of our arses and realize this SHOULD NOT be a hunters issue , that would be how "we pass" on this battle.
Second , we're not "facing that right now in this country". Right now , it's us hunters , and the non hunters who dont have a problem with it (hunting) , against the ANTI hunters. Right now , the anti hunters are grossly outnumbered. Push the non hunters (fence sitters) on their side , and we're (hunters) grossly outnumbered!!

I'm still curious. Have you had a change of heart on the canned hunts and how it "portrays hunters in a bad light"?

BigJ12

I apoligize for my earlier tone. I had been talking about this subject with a coworker , and how we listened to caller after caller from across the states , refer to Wisconsin hunters as "hicks , rednecks , blood thirsty killers , drunken yahoos that just want to shoot something , etc. etc. on talk radio.[:@] So yes , I came in fuming already.

I would like to touch on a couple misconceptions though. Feral cats pose far more danger to song birds than they do to game birds. Being on a farm I've seen it thousands of times. I cant recall ever , not once , seeing a cat bring in a game bird (other than mourning dove). Sparrows , robins , starlings , etc. , yes I've seen it enough , but the overall majority of animals I've witnessed them bring in were mice and moles. Ass for eggs? Never seen that either. But I have seen raccoons and foxes eating the eggs. Does this mean cats never do? Nope , I cant say that , I just never seen it , but it's funny I've seen coons raid nests on more than one occasion. Could this be the decline in game birds??? We have hardly anyone hunting and trapping fox and raccoon anymore.

Here is how I believe the cat issue should be handled , if you have a problem in your area.
It should be a landowner issue! Period. It doesn't point fingers at hunters and for the farmers/landowners who have issues with feral cats , allow them to remove/kill them as they see fit.

We (hunters) have enough battles already!!!
Choose your battles wisely!

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

BOWFANATIC - you and I both agree that feral cats need killed, don't we ?

We differ in that I don't mind making them right on par with any other varmits, legal description and all. Hell, if they're wild they ARE varmits.

Raccons, skunks, coyote pups, fox kits ....... all adorable and cuddly and legal to kill in hunting season and the public hates it, don't they ? I guess you think we should remove them from varmit status, make it illegal to "hunt" them but shoot, shovel and shutup whenever we get the chance ?

Brilliant strategy. Lies never help anything.

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

Bowfanatic,

Apology accepted, as I hope mine is as well.

After reading your last post I can understand your outrage. I also hope you understand mine. I am so sick and tired of hunters "hiding in the shadows" when things like this pop up and I used this example to sound off about it. I hope you understand.

You listed many other types of animals that indeed do destroy the game birds. And yes the decline of trapping these animals has probably added to the decline of game birds. I think we can both agree that what has killed more game birds that all the animals together would be weather and the rapid decline of habitat. One we can't control the other we can.

So I guess I flew off the handle when I shouldn't have. All I could decipher was you not wanting the hunters to get involved. I can see your thoughts because of the possibility hunters will look like a bunch of no brain blood thirsty killers, but this is where we differ. I don't think hunters should have to feel the need to stay in the background simply because of how we might be stereotyped. My opinion is, by not standing up and taking an active role, it only reinforces that way of thinking. It makes us look like we are wrong and have something to hide.

I say we stand up and take every opportunity that presents it's self to show the country just what we stand for. By getting involved more often we can get our message out. We have an avenue to tell the unimformed fence sitters how much money we as hunters generate for conservation and that we are the leading source of public revenue for that purpose. We have a chance to show how we as hunters strive to keep balance in the eco system when industrialization and the decline of natural habitat upsets it. We can show people how keeping feral cats in check as well as other natural predatory animals will be better and not worse for conservation and the future of game birds as well as song bird.

It's time we stand up every chance we get and show the fence sitters that we as hunters are dedicated to conservation and a healthy eco system for the generations and not just a bunch of rednecks out blasting everything we see.

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

I guess? Only because they tell me "their a problem" and "they need to be killed". I haven't witnessed enough "feral cats" causing problems myself , to even consider making this an issue , let alone a hunting issue. But , just because it's not rampant in my corner of the world , doesn't mean it's not real.

Yes!! Thanks for making my point. The "public hates it". But not ALL the public! Now you want to throw house pets into that mix?? Is that a good strategy? Think about it real hard. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how much that will pi$$ off the non hunting (<currently no threat to us) public. In fact it's also divided hunters as well , another good idea I guess too huh?
And before you try to correct me on my term "house pets" and point out that it should say "feral cats" , dont bother. Through the eyes of the public , their cats , plain and simple. In fact when your sitting in your treestand and a cat walks by , how will YOU determine if it's a "feral" cat or someones pet?

They are , and always were , wild animals. But anyway , your putting words in my mouth , and making false accusations , to aid in your debate as always.
I'm not suggesting "we remove" anything from current hunting status. What I am suggesting is that we dont turn this into a hunting issue! You know , one of those issues that really give hunters a black eye. Kind of like canned hunts.

BigJ12

I agree hunters need to stand up and fight.
I definately disagree that we need to stand up and fight "every chance we get".
As you can see by what I put in bold in your post , this issue is exactly what makes us look like that.

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

BOWFANATIC


I htink the bottom line then is IF there is a feral cat problem, and I believe there is in many areas, you think we should shoot, shovel, shut up and pretend its not there while in secret "taking care" of the problem, right ?

I believe we shouldn't lie about it. We're hunters, we kill things, and some of those things are varmits. When cats or dogs go wild they turn into varmits.

Bottom line

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

In a heartbeat!!!! i wouldn't give it a second thought unless i had a deerin sight that i was after.

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

How is this approach a lie. There are things taken care of all the time that the public doesn't know about.

I don't think taking care of wild cats will ever be a big issue. Most of the fence sitters have dumped off their cats in the country. I get them all the time. They are also the prey of owls and hawks and I wouldn't put it past coons to raid their litters. People start making it known that hunters are shooting cats and when little flufy turns up missing hunters will be blamed even though cats have been turning up missing for ever. When John Q starts having a problem with wild pets he'll scream. When Mrs. John Q runs them over with her car or they scare her in the night she'll scream and then John will really scream to get her to shut up. :D

There are some things better off not talked about. Doesn't make them a lie.

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

I've done a pretty good job of explaining myself on how the effects of this issue could be devastating to hunters. Or at least I thought I did.[&:]

But , since you keep going back to the SS&S thing , I'll clarify the reason I even mentioned it.

SS&S is not a hunting term. Never was from what I can tell , around here anyway. SS&S is used mostly by landowners/farmers who have continueous problems with varmints on their property. Exactly why this problem (issue) should have been a landowner issue from the start , instead of making just hunters look like the ones who want to start shooting cats.[:@]

Less than a month ago we had well over 100 pages of debate concerning the crossbow , and the two biggest proponents in that thread were using terms like "we need to stop dividing hunters" , and "we need more hunters in the woods". And the very title of that thread , "please tell me one negative..."[&:]
Here we are a month later and the two people mentioned in that thread are proponents for turning the kitty cat issue into a hunting issue. An issue that would do the exact opposite of what you felt hunters "needed" in the crossbow thread. It would divide hunters. It would not bring new hunters into our sport. It would however multiply the very reasoning behind why you feel we hunters NEED new hunters. Because it would grow our enemy much larger than what it is now. If the feral cat issue remains a "hunter issue" I'll be awaiting your thread titled ..."please tell me one negative to.."

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

BOWFANATIC - perhaps you're right on this one. Seriously. You and I (I hope) know that feral cats are not cute, cuddly kitty's, rather they are farmits not unlike any other varmit that we, as hunters, have open seasons to shoot and kill.

Hunting will never be looked upon favorably, accept that. Trapping, running dogs, hunting cougars and bear, dove hunting, bowhunting ........ PETA and like will keep chipping away whereever they can. Even fishing is under attack. Its a never ending battle.

Will adding feral cats to the varmit list be a death blow ? No, it won't. Would we lose some support from non-hunters ? Maybe, but those people are idiots anyway IMO and would "turn" against Hunting anyway at some point for one reason or the other depending on what commercial they happen to see.

As for me ? I'll kill a feral cat if I see one at my descretion and I don't have a problems with other people doing it too. In my part of the country, I can walk into any woods and see sign indicating a population of feral cats. I have 2 cats, I cannot control where they go or what they do, that is the nature of a cat. I collar them and keep their vet tags up to date. If they get ran over on the road, or shot as they go into Farmer Brown's chicken coup, or if they lose their collar and get shot ........ oh well, I cannot blame the person for shooting them, in the least.

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

BOWFANATIC,


First, I don't remember saying anything in the crossbow thread about "we need to stop dividing hunters" and "we need more hunters in the woods" I believe I focused more on the fact that a crossbow is a form of a bow and that it shouldn't matter if someone wants to use one during the archery season where it belongs. So please don't put words into my mouth.

Second, I never said the feral cat issue should be a hunter only issue. While feral cats are not just a hunting issue it still effects hunters. Yes feral cats kill song birds and rodents, but they also kill game birds. How is that not a hunter or hunting issue?

My problem is you just want to step back and let others fight it out because you are afraid of the possibility this issue will portray hunters in a bad light. And I say to hell with that! If we sit on our hands and only "pick our battles" when we think it can't make hunters look bad, we as a hunting community will never make any headway.

If you want to pick and choose your battles go right ahead, but don't chastise me for standing up for what is right. Putting the feral cat populations in check is the right thing to do for everyone, including hunters who have something to lose if we don't.

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

Remove the word "possibility" from that sentence and your dead on!
It's not a possibility , it's a fact. It's already portrayed Wisconsin hunters in a bad light.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then.

I strongly feel we'll have alot more to lose by making this a hunter issue.

There's no sense in dragging this one out for 100 pages. If you cant see the danger in making this a hunter issue , with everything hunters are facing already , then there's nothing I can say to change your mind.
I tried!

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

BOWFANATIC - curious .............. would you, or did you, fight to protect trapping rights ? Did you fight the battle on cougar hunting ? Spring bear hunting ? Bear baiting ? Dove hunting ?

Or did you lay down each time and say " well, its making us look bad to try and hunt XXX animals, so we'd better just not fight the battle "


???????

RE: would you shoot a coyote in hunting season ?
 

BOWFANATIC,

I have no intentions of making this another 100 page thread. I can see your concerns because they are REAL. If not delt with correctly this can and will become a black eye for hunters. My problem is I don't like it when hunters sit on their hands and back away from doing what's RIGHT simply because it might portray them as something they are not. That is a defeatist attitude and I won't be a part of it.

I get the feeling from your posts that you truly don't believe there is a feral cat problem across the country, and you base this on your observations on your land. As you said, you have never seen cats kill/destroy game birds and their nests, and I'm glad there not, on your land. However, feral cats ARE a problem, they do kill/destroy game birds and their nests and it won't go away unless something is done about it.

By NOT getting involved in a JUST cause that will make for a better and balanced eco system, only makes hunters look like they don't care about conservation. It gives the anti's more ammunition in the future. How can we preach about healthy deer herds and the need for extra tags or extended seasons so more does can be killed in order to prevent over poulations when we just ignore the feral cat problem.

The anti's will have a field day with that, I can just hear them now....."You hunters don't care, you just want to be able to kill more deer to satisfy your thirst for blood." And "If you, as you say, do everything in the name of conservation, where were you on the feral cat problem?"

I don't think we have the luxury to pick and choose our battles, we need to address everyone of them as they surface or risk looking like a bunch of inconsistant and selfish group of killers who really don't care about conservation but hide behind it in order to kill more deer.

If you can't see the danger in that, then there is nothing I can say to change your mind.