I guess the thing that bothers me the most talking about deer management is the hunters that say it's all about the deer. Well in my mind,AR,QDM and food supplement isn't about the deer,it's about better and bigger hunter rewards. I'm not against any of the above plans...I just don't like the fact that alot of people aren't honest (in my mind) about why they support the plans...me,me,me...not the deer. That's OK,to each their own,but don't hide the real reason you like the results of deer enhancement just to get others to go along with the idea to help you out. Just my thoughts.

Or hunters who want to shoot bigger bucks selfishly demanding someone else pass up maybe the only opportunity he might get in a year, or maybe force a kid to give up his first opportunity ever to shoot a deer, just because the deer doesn't meet some nebulous minimum points standard.

Now how the heck is anyone going to bring their 'public beliefs' -whatever that means - to your private land? It's your land, you make the rules. That's why you bought it in the first place, isn't it? You are king on your own land. If you want a point restriction on your land, you simply issue your decree and so be it. You don't need no freakin' law to force your ideas down everybody else's throat, do you?

Pretty good thoughts too NY Hunter!!!!!

I think we do agree quite a bit. I don't even have a problem with encouraging hunters to pass smaller bucks but I think its almost impossible to do that without denegrating their values, starting a fight, and dividing the hunting community?

i agree with takin does.

Sylvan, you seem like a really reasonable guy. Thats why Im looking for your help here. I like to think Im a pretty reasonable guy too, though a few of the members here may disagree.

I honestly dont want to force anyone to my standards, and I wouldnt want to be forced to others standards. But it would be nice to get the successful buck hunters to start thinking "pass the lil guys".

I dont want to MAKE them do that, and I dont want to degrade them, or anything like that. I just want more people to pass the young bucks.

Do you have any ideas or plans that I could use to help do that, without upsetting anyone? (Now Im being honest here, Im really asking for your help)

This has been my approach in the past.

I usually meet hunters in the parking area, in the late evening or what not, and I will approach them and ask what they saw....yada yada yada...tell them some of what Ive seen either while hunting, or scouting.

Tell em about all the young bucks I know of....and the few big ones I know of. I tell them that Im gonna pass all the small eights and stuff, and that Im only after the big guys. I try and get a feel for how perceptive they are to that, and then I will ask if theyd be willing to pass the young ones too. A few of the guys I have met have said YES....and thats always exciting.

One guy I met said he never had harvested a buck, so I just told him where some good spots were and wished him luck....I wasnt about to ask this guy to pass a small buck if he had never shot one. Especially since its state land, and he can do as he pleases.

But some guys do look at me like Im crazy...Those are the guys I dont ask....and a few guys do seem to take offense....but why? Im not forcing them, Im ASKING them.

Is that wrong? Do you think there is a better way?


Ok, on to Bawanajim...

Jim, I dont know why you didnt like me from the start, you attacked me. I attacked you back. But I hate to be mean to someone, and Im done with the insults. I admit I didnt understand what you were getting at, but I think I do now. You have to admit its confusing that you are arguing AGAINST QDM, when you admit that its about the antlers. QDM will help you to get those bigger bucks. But like I said before, Im not gonna tell you what to do. Sorry I insulted you. I hope you can see that I am basically on your side as well.

NYbowhunter, I see what you're saying as well......but its simply not true for all of us. I admit I want bigger antlers, but there are other ways to go about it...TDM is a much better way, but theres no way Im gonna force people to go by that. QDM is exactly what it says it is....its Quality Deer Management. They should really change the name to QWM..quality wildlife management. Because a reduction in the deer herd, not only causes a healthier deer herd, but animals that live off those same foods, flourish as well, due to the improved quality of the habitat.

I photograph wildlife, so I enjoy seeing all sorts of animals thrive. Yes the bigger antlers are one of the reasons I support QDM, but better overall wildlife and habitat is the MAIN reason.

Night all---Matt

That has to be the funniest thing I've read in awhile (O.K. the 2nd funniest when compared to the crossbow thread).
You want facts but you dont want to hear biological knowledge? Sylvan has posted some very in depth knowledge , and links to the same , pertaining specifically to this topic.

Arthur By your public land beliefs I mean you people that need laws to tell you what you can shoot "As In earn a buck" ,as in "antler restrictions" and any other dumb laws that are put in place to regulate public land. If you don't care to shoot a buck don't,if you want to shoot ten does shoot them just don't press for laws that force your beliefs on others .
And I am glad to see that you do understand the basics of private property rights.

Bawanajim,

Not sure if you saw my apology above, so I just wanted to put it out there again. I think we both were insulting each other for no reason. I'm sorry for insulting you.

I also want to comment on your thoughts about earn-a-buck, and AR.

I agree with you, we shouldnt need to have such things, people should be allowed to choose. Especially the AR...I cant agree with antler restrictions, unless the state refuses to limit the amount of buck tags they give. At least this way, you can limit some of the buck tags to be AR. This protects some of the young bucks.

As for earn-a-buck, it isnt the best way, but it gets the job done. It gets people to harvest does that wouldnt normally do so. This is necessary in some areas to keep the amount of does in check. There are areas around me that are absolutely over-run with does. This isnt only my observation, but the states data confirms this. These are the areas we implement earn-a-buck.

So I wouldnt call it "dumb", but I agree its not the best way. That is why I have proposed a different incentive for shooting does. It would enter successful hunters harvesting does in the overpopulated zones into a raffle for hunting gear prizes. The state has acknowledged it, but will not vote on it till next summer.

It would be nice if we could go out and soley hunt bucks, dont get me wrong, but its not whats best for the herd in certain areas. The herd needs to be regulated. Now it would also be nice if the hunters who wanted to shoot does could do it alone. But when we look at who wants to REALLY shoot does, you're not left with many hunters. Ok, you're gonna have your beginners, and trophy hunters wanting to shoot does, but that leaves a lot of hunters out of the doe management plan. Leaving too much "work" for the other hunters.

This is where doe harvest incentives have to come into play. You are truly blessed to own land that you can manage, and have final say over. Telling certain hunters to take does, and allowing others to harvest certain bucks. Its the ultimate dream for most hunters.

The States on the other hand, dont have the liberty to just make certain hunters shoot does. They have to work out a management plan that encompasses the entire state, while still trying to keep the majority of hunters happy. Its NOT an easy job, so its really not right to berate the methods which they use to try and manage the deer and please the hunters. They are honestly doing the best they can.

Hope you have a better understanding as to why all these "rules" are necessary.

Have a good one---Matt

Matt sorry about the bitchen.

Here in PA the state decided on a plan to lower deer #'s. PA is a huge state but we took the one size fits all approach, now everybodys pissed .Some areas the deer kill has fallen 50% other areas people are over run with deer. People in the middle of the state hunt for days not to see a deer then people down state tell them they don't know how to hunt because they have deer feeding in their yards. It is a mess!
Around here the state says we can support 15 to 21 deer per forested square mile. This area is 50 % forested . So with their #s 1280 acres divided by 18 you get one deer per 71 acres. So on my 150 acres the PA.G.C. thinks I can support 2 deer. The people that followed this plan blindly and shot a doe with every tag they could get , now bitch the loudest. We have people in some counties that take their kids out to hunt but with no deer it is hard get them interested.
I have between fifteen and twenty deer feeding at my house now. If half are does that will have twins I will have between 25-40 deer this summer. That means I will need to buy 2050 more acres to support them.

Maybe that will help explain my lack of support for goverments plan to regulate our deer.

I too am sorry about some comments I have made to you.

If you follow blindly make sure you are not following a lemming!!!!!!!

Good hunting. Jim