Gary Alt (A Man With the "Right" Plan)
09-11-2002, 10:41 AM
#1
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: QDM Heaven
Posts: 847
Gary Alt (A Man With the "Right" Plan)
Deer guru wants increased harvest numbers
Pennsylvania's deer project leader Gary Alt: 'The bottom line is that we've been trying to raise more deer than the land can sustain'
By John McCoy
Charleston (W.Va) Daily Mail
Gary Alt offers some compelling arguments to decrease the number of deer across the country.
The man who altered the way Pennsylvanians hunt whitetail deer would like to see deer seasons nationwide undergo similar changes.
"The bottom line is that we've been trying to raise more deer than the land can sustain," said Gary Alt, the Pennsylvania Game Commission's deer project leader.
"If we step up and do the right thing now — which is to reduce deer numbers almost everywhere — we can be considered heroes instead of fools."
By "we," Alt means hunters and wildlife officials. He said both groups are responsible for the whitetail population problems present in so many areas today.
"Vocal hunters have dominated wildlife managers' plans since the early 1900s," he said. "The managers' willingness to bow to their wishes has skewed the way wildlife is managed."
Though other species also have been allowed to proliferate beyond the ecosystem's ability to support them, Alt said deer have done the most damage.
"Deer control what lives and dies in a forest ecosystem," he said. "Allowing their numbers to expand beyond what is biologically sustainable has been the biggest mistake in the history of wildlife management."
Seasonal changes
To combat that mistake in Pennsylvania, Alt has set up a series of seasons designed to trim the state's deer herd by ensuring that hunters kill more female deer than males.
"This fall, we hope to reduce our deer population by about 5 percent," he said.
“ Deer control what lives and dies in a forest ecosystem. Allowing their numbers to expand beyond what is biologically sustainable has been the biggest mistake in the history of wildlife management. ”
— Pennsylvania Game Commission's deer project leader Gary Alt
Other Pennsylvania wildlife officials have tried what Alt is attempting, but sportsmen have resisted the effort — first by refusing to kill enough antlerless deer, then by lobbying to have antlerless-deer harvest quotas reduced.
Alt countered the resistance by pushing for two radically different deer hunting seasons.
First, he asked that the state's one-day antlerless-deer season to be spread over 14 days, and that it coincide with the bucks-only season in late November and early December.
"When you restrict the antlerless season to just one day, it becomes very weather-dependent," he explained. "With it spread over two weeks, it's not likely to be affected by bad weather."
With the season less weather-dependent, Game Commission officials were able to reduce the number of antlerless-deer permits available to the public and still remain confident that enough antlerless deer would be killed to meet the agency's management goals.
"Another factor in the 14-day antlerless season is that we're giving hunters enough time to make sure they kill females," Alt said. "With the one-day season, they shot anything without antlers. A lot of the animals they killed were button bucks. Now they can take their time and make sure they take a doe instead of a buck."
The other new season — and arguably the more controversial of the two — is a mid-October season that also targets antlerless deer.
"I like to call it a 'pre-rut doe removal' season," Alt said. "It's an attempt to grow bigger and healthier deer, and bucks with bigger racks."
Easy logic
The rationale behind the season is simple.
An outspoken deer official says if hunters don't start killing more deer, some day sharpshooters will be hired to do the job.
"Bucks produce their biggest racks between the ages of 4 and 8," Alt explained. "But in Pennsylvania, because of the way our seasons were oriented toward buck hunting, we were removing 80 to 90 percent of our bucks before they had a chance to grow.
"By letting a large number of does live until after the buck season, and by killing most of the best bucks during the buck season, we were ensuring that a low number of small bucks — mostly yearlings — was mating with a large number of does. Sometimes the mating didn't get finished until January, and the subsequent fawn births were spread out over several weeks."
Fawns born late tended to be more susceptible to predators, less healthy and less able to compete with their earlier-born cousins. Alt believes that by removing about 100,000 does from the population with an early antlerless-deer season, some of the problems will be solved.
"We're trying to get more big bucks doing the mating," he said. "That should result in bigger and stronger fawns that are born in a more concentrated time frame and thus are less susceptible to predators."
Selling the idea
Getting his ideas across wasn't easy. To sell his proposed seasons to Pennsylvania's reluctant and politically active sportsmen, Alt traveled to every corner of the state and presented his ideas to more than 22,000 people in 61 sessions.
"The hunters became reasonable once I explained it to them," he said.
Back in April, the Game Commission voted to adopt Alt's ideas in time for the upcoming whitetail seasons. He believes the adoption has the potential to improve the public's perception of hunters and their impact on the environment.
"Hunters are less than 10 percent of the population," he said. "If we continue to cram an outmoded method of deer management down society's throat, one of these days society will take care of the problem by hiring sharpshooters, having refrigerated trucks on hand, and sending the venison to the market.
Have a different viewpoint?
Click here to our message board to share your ideas on the argument that more deer need to be harvested nationwide.
"I've been pleading with hunters — let us manage the deer, or we'll lose our ability to hunt. If we can come down hard on deer in areas where they're overpopulated, we'll be leading the charge toward restoring the forests in Pennsylvania.
"We want to have the cameras rolling when we do. Society wants to know what you can do for them. Hunters will provide a free ecological service for the public. We'll document how we're bringing back the trees, the neotropical migrant birds, etc.
"That's our ticket to hunting in the future."
Pennsylvania's deer project leader Gary Alt: 'The bottom line is that we've been trying to raise more deer than the land can sustain'
By John McCoy
Charleston (W.Va) Daily Mail
Gary Alt offers some compelling arguments to decrease the number of deer across the country.
The man who altered the way Pennsylvanians hunt whitetail deer would like to see deer seasons nationwide undergo similar changes.
"The bottom line is that we've been trying to raise more deer than the land can sustain," said Gary Alt, the Pennsylvania Game Commission's deer project leader.
"If we step up and do the right thing now — which is to reduce deer numbers almost everywhere — we can be considered heroes instead of fools."
By "we," Alt means hunters and wildlife officials. He said both groups are responsible for the whitetail population problems present in so many areas today.
"Vocal hunters have dominated wildlife managers' plans since the early 1900s," he said. "The managers' willingness to bow to their wishes has skewed the way wildlife is managed."
Though other species also have been allowed to proliferate beyond the ecosystem's ability to support them, Alt said deer have done the most damage.
"Deer control what lives and dies in a forest ecosystem," he said. "Allowing their numbers to expand beyond what is biologically sustainable has been the biggest mistake in the history of wildlife management."
Seasonal changes
To combat that mistake in Pennsylvania, Alt has set up a series of seasons designed to trim the state's deer herd by ensuring that hunters kill more female deer than males.
"This fall, we hope to reduce our deer population by about 5 percent," he said.
“ Deer control what lives and dies in a forest ecosystem. Allowing their numbers to expand beyond what is biologically sustainable has been the biggest mistake in the history of wildlife management. ”
— Pennsylvania Game Commission's deer project leader Gary Alt
Other Pennsylvania wildlife officials have tried what Alt is attempting, but sportsmen have resisted the effort — first by refusing to kill enough antlerless deer, then by lobbying to have antlerless-deer harvest quotas reduced.
Alt countered the resistance by pushing for two radically different deer hunting seasons.
First, he asked that the state's one-day antlerless-deer season to be spread over 14 days, and that it coincide with the bucks-only season in late November and early December.
"When you restrict the antlerless season to just one day, it becomes very weather-dependent," he explained. "With it spread over two weeks, it's not likely to be affected by bad weather."
With the season less weather-dependent, Game Commission officials were able to reduce the number of antlerless-deer permits available to the public and still remain confident that enough antlerless deer would be killed to meet the agency's management goals.
"Another factor in the 14-day antlerless season is that we're giving hunters enough time to make sure they kill females," Alt said. "With the one-day season, they shot anything without antlers. A lot of the animals they killed were button bucks. Now they can take their time and make sure they take a doe instead of a buck."
The other new season — and arguably the more controversial of the two — is a mid-October season that also targets antlerless deer.
"I like to call it a 'pre-rut doe removal' season," Alt said. "It's an attempt to grow bigger and healthier deer, and bucks with bigger racks."
Easy logic
The rationale behind the season is simple.
An outspoken deer official says if hunters don't start killing more deer, some day sharpshooters will be hired to do the job.
"Bucks produce their biggest racks between the ages of 4 and 8," Alt explained. "But in Pennsylvania, because of the way our seasons were oriented toward buck hunting, we were removing 80 to 90 percent of our bucks before they had a chance to grow.
"By letting a large number of does live until after the buck season, and by killing most of the best bucks during the buck season, we were ensuring that a low number of small bucks — mostly yearlings — was mating with a large number of does. Sometimes the mating didn't get finished until January, and the subsequent fawn births were spread out over several weeks."
Fawns born late tended to be more susceptible to predators, less healthy and less able to compete with their earlier-born cousins. Alt believes that by removing about 100,000 does from the population with an early antlerless-deer season, some of the problems will be solved.
"We're trying to get more big bucks doing the mating," he said. "That should result in bigger and stronger fawns that are born in a more concentrated time frame and thus are less susceptible to predators."
Selling the idea
Getting his ideas across wasn't easy. To sell his proposed seasons to Pennsylvania's reluctant and politically active sportsmen, Alt traveled to every corner of the state and presented his ideas to more than 22,000 people in 61 sessions.
"The hunters became reasonable once I explained it to them," he said.
Back in April, the Game Commission voted to adopt Alt's ideas in time for the upcoming whitetail seasons. He believes the adoption has the potential to improve the public's perception of hunters and their impact on the environment.
"Hunters are less than 10 percent of the population," he said. "If we continue to cram an outmoded method of deer management down society's throat, one of these days society will take care of the problem by hiring sharpshooters, having refrigerated trucks on hand, and sending the venison to the market.
Have a different viewpoint?
Click here to our message board to share your ideas on the argument that more deer need to be harvested nationwide.
"I've been pleading with hunters — let us manage the deer, or we'll lose our ability to hunt. If we can come down hard on deer in areas where they're overpopulated, we'll be leading the charge toward restoring the forests in Pennsylvania.
"We want to have the cameras rolling when we do. Society wants to know what you can do for them. Hunters will provide a free ecological service for the public. We'll document how we're bringing back the trees, the neotropical migrant birds, etc.
"That's our ticket to hunting in the future."
09-11-2002, 10:46 AM
#2
Spike
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lewisburg, PA
Posts: 73
RE: Gary Alt (A Man With the "Right" Plan)
I have hunted in PA for 16 years now and don't ever remember a 1 day doe season. Another question is according to my calculations we now have a 12 day doe season, not 14??
09-11-2002, 10:53 AM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Memphis TN USA
Posts: 3,445
RE: Gary Alt (A Man With the "Right" Plan)
Yep, the only man in the world I look up to more than you wolfen<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
You guys are my heros!!!!
Protect your hunting rights, "Spay or neuter a liberal."
You guys are my heros!!!!
Protect your hunting rights, "Spay or neuter a liberal."
09-11-2002, 11:02 AM
#4
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: lebanon pa USA
Posts: 652
RE: Gary Alt (A Man With the "Right" Plan)
The doe season has been 3 days for at least 10 years, and before that 2 days. Ive hunted since 1979 and there has never been a 1 day doe season, the other descrepedecy I see is the number of anterless tags issued, this year there where 1,029,350 anterless deer licenses the most ever issued, at this time a little over 100,000 have yet to be sold. I really do love the October anterless deer season, I think its a great idea to get the bucks activily searching for a receptive doe, I do think in the near future all of the anterless deer hunting will take place before the rut.
Edited by - Buckshot on 09/11/2002 12:04:45
Edited by - Buckshot on 09/11/2002 12:04:45
09-11-2002, 11:18 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Audubon & Red Rock, Penna.
Posts: 4,472
RE: Gary Alt (A Man With the "Right" Plan)
The theory seems logical for public land, but on private it might not make much difference. We hunt 2500 acres and there are usually about 15-20 bucks taken. Most of the hunters were already selective about the size of the bucks they shot. Sparing 5-10 yearlings over 2500 acres might not make a noticable difference. Also - a lot of the hunters just won't shoot a doe. They think it's unsporting. One fellow told me he thought it was like killing 3 deer at once because you're taking out a breeder. Public land will surely show a difference in a couple of years but I don't think it will make a difference on our land. I have a feeling that a lot of the 6 and 8 pointers shot in PA are young bucks, too.
Scott Meier
White Oak Lodge
Scott Meier
White Oak Lodge
09-11-2002, 11:49 AM
#6
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fredericksburg Virginia USA
Posts: 13,672
RE: Gary Alt (A Man With the "Right" Plan)
I have a question in regards to the deer population density in Pa. in the county I hunt in Va. it is about 40 deer per square mile, way overpopulated, what is it in Pa.?
The Tazman aka Martin Price
Founder and President of
Virginia Disabled Outdoorsmen Club
The Tazman aka Martin Price
Founder and President of
Virginia Disabled Outdoorsmen Club
09-11-2002, 01:30 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Middletown PA United States
Posts: 3,625
RE: Gary Alt (A Man With the "Right" Plan)
Taz, the desities vary a lot depending on the area. For most of the state it's around 20 to 25 per square mile. Areas of limited hunting, like more populated areas it can bea lot more. That's where the real problem arises. The PGC wants these deer taken down to a more sustainable level, but either the areas are almost too densely populated with people or getting permission to hunt can be rough.
Frankly I'm in favor of trying Alt's theory. Right or wrong, it's betteer than anyone else has come forth with for decades. Especially the Antler Restrictions. What most hunters are going to have to realize is that it's not "brown is down" anymore. They may have to actually take a "look" at what they are planning on shooting.
Frankly I'm in favor of trying Alt's theory. Right or wrong, it's betteer than anyone else has come forth with for decades. Especially the Antler Restrictions. What most hunters are going to have to realize is that it's not "brown is down" anymore. They may have to actually take a "look" at what they are planning on shooting.
09-11-2002, 01:37 PM
#8
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Harrisburg PA USA
Posts: 99
RE: Gary Alt (A Man With the "Right" Plan)
Great to see some other people support Alt's ideas as I do. So many guys are complaining. Just look what he did for PA's bear population, he can't be that far out of wack when it comes to deer.
Deer densities? well hard to say but I know I have been seeing alot more deer this year and alot more bucks than normal, but maybe I'm just looking harder.
Deer densities? well hard to say but I know I have been seeing alot more deer this year and alot more bucks than normal, but maybe I'm just looking harder.
09-11-2002, 02:29 PM
#9
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 15,452
RE: Gary Alt (A Man With the "Right" Plan)
>>If we can come down hard on deer in areas where there'e over populated<<<<<. THATS what he has not done this year anyway.The hard hunted public lands will even have less deer while the posted land will have a good population. He didn't create smaller mamagement areas. I bet my area dont have 10 deer per square mile on open land,but the doe permits were increased.What sense does that make??? Wihout better deer counts and smaller mamagement units the parts of his program that are good means nothing.Heck with the antler restrictions you can legally shoot a 2 pt with a bump for a brow tine.Plus did nothing to protect the buttons.With the increased doe permits that will mean more buttons shot. So much for hekping the buck POP. He is hardly a Deer God.When God does something it is done right and 100% right the first time.
