how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

I just bought a lower end Hoyt bow and started shooting. The draw was a bit short out of the box and the peep really high. I was shooting 3-5 inch groups at 20-25 yards from the start. Once I get the peep and draw fit to my shooting, I expect 3-5" groups all the way out to 30 yards and slightly larger groups to 40 yards. Very little practice with this bow and those results whisper quiet, easy draw, can hold for a long time, accurate, lightweight, good speed

How can a crossbow be easier than this ?

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

My shoulder is messed up, and I can't draw back any bow. But with two hands, I can cock a crossbow. It's easier for me.;)

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

you don't need to draw a crossbow in the presence of a deer.

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

Define "presence" ? Is that truly all that seperates the crossbow from a compound and determines the ferrocity in which people seem to hate them ? (see the other thread going on crossbows)

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

I think it is easier to kill a deer with a crossbow since it's already drawn and you don't have to anchor etc. etc. I will be the first to admit I don't think the two accomplishments are equal and there is an even greater disparity, IMO, between guns and bows. BUT...................I think it's a whole new ball game when I let my "predjudice" or elitism convince me that I have the right to decide how others should be able to hunt. JMO

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

There are several reasons that a crossbow is easyer.

1 sight it in ,practice a little to know the drop at different ranges and for get it till you want to hunt .Nothing to practice ,just pull the trigger when the sights or red dot is on the target.
2 After the sights are set or the red dot is sighted in it stays sighted in over the summer . Just shoot a few bolts to refresh your memorey of drop.
3 With the electric or crank cockers ,even some one that has little arm strength can hunt ,just have to hold up the crossbow.
4 It is easyer to be accurate with a stock , sights and not having to hold the string back .
5 It takes less movement to raise the crossbow and pull the trigger than to draw a bow.

I hunt with a bow most of the time ,but also use a crossbow .
Last year hurt my shoulder and could not pull my bow for 6 weeks ,so I hunted with my crossbow.
But with a crossbow it is a lot harder to still hunt heavy cover or standing corn.

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

This debat reminds me of the great motorcycle debat, you know, the one that says if you dont ride a harley, you aint a real biker. Come on now, what does it matter what you ride or what you shoot,( gun, bow, cross bow,blackpowder) just get out and do it.

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

I don't think I do mind what other archers use. I just got this compound, haven't shot one really in three or four years and I can shoot it every bit as good as I ever could before. The ease and simplicity of the compound bow is amazing to me, it really is. I sight it in, don't have to practice anymore than I would with a crossbow it never gets out of tune or sight anymore so than a crossbow, I use a trigger .......... I just watched the other thread and I cannot see how this hunting weapon can be considered harder than a crossbow, I really don't. I was going to join in on the other thread but wanted to wait until I recieved this bow in to see if it was hard to shoot. Its not by any means.

So why not allow a crossbow in light of a compound being so easy to shoot ? The argument all along has been not allow crossbows becasue they are easy right ? Compounds are ridiculously easy too so don't allow them now or ?

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

Delivering the arrow on target is easier with a crossbow. The rest of the crossbow hunting experience should work the same as vertical bow hunting. IMO the two main reasons that people fight crossbows so rabidly are either;

New=Bad

or

The Clubhouse Theory- We have it, we don't want to share it, go away.

Do what you like. As silentassassin said it isn't up to us to decide what another hunter should use. If it is safe and humane it is a valid hunting tool. Have fun!

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

The average archery kill shot is less than 20 yards. The act of drawing the bow when the deer is that close is probably the hardest part of archery hunting. Yes with the let off you can draw slightly ahead of time, but still must hold at full draw manually. Relax your draw 1/2 inch and letdown WILL happen. Most bows weigh at least 4 lbs - after a few seconds of holding this weight at full draw the bow arm starts to tire and the shot begins to break down. Aftert 30 seconds your chance of maintaining form, accuratley aiming and releasing a good shot becomes less likely. If the deer spots you, the draw cannot be held indefinately - you will move and spook them.

These are a few of the things that make a xbow much easier to KILL with. Since it is drawn and locked ahead, you can rest it well before the deer is in range and hold forever to wait for the shot. You could even lay prone and wait - probably the most accurate way to shoot a "stocked" weapon. Try that with a compound!

To be successful. a xbow shooter must be a good hunter - you still have to set up close where there are deer. However a good hunter will be far more deadly with a weapon that allows minimal movement when the deer comes in range. A xbow does that - a compound does not.

Steve

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

Also you may be good at shooting a compound in your yard with a shirt on. Climb a tree, sit there for hours in 20-30 degree weather with bulky clothes on and still see how accurate you are. None of that matters with an Xbow.

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

rybohunter - Why wouldn't it matter with a crossbow ? I shot this afternoon with heavy shirt and shot even better than last night.

I took the sight off, lowered the peep myself its easy to adjust a compound.

I've killed a few deer before with a compound. I never waited until the deer was within 20 yards to draw. I always drew before the deer was in my presence, held and then shot when it developed.

If the draw is all the difference, then what argument can recurve shooters put forth against compounds ?

My arrows aren't the right lenght, probably not the right spine and I'm certain I could take the bow I first shot yesterday, adjusted today and kill a deer in the morning with it.

Crossbows are easier than that ?

Really ?

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

We're honored by your presence!;)

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

HaGar43 - you shouldn't be. A guy at work picked my bow up and shot it better than I did ! I'm an average guy shooting a high tech bow that is unbelievable in how it shoots. I simply draw, put the pin on the target and pull the trigger.

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

2 good points. Maybe its only me but I'v had things happen to a shot while I was all bundled up before. Ripped a button off a jacket on release that thru the shot off hit my arm with the string because of bulkyness. Neither would happen with a crossbow. Also the cold can get to me enuff that I cant draw back my primary bow, suprised the heck out of me & it was damn cold but the fact remains that that afternoon I was a deer watcher as I just couldnt draw my bow when the deer came. Again, crossbow you can cock it when your fresh & shoot it after 4 hours shivering on stand.

I'm not against hunting with them but am suprised theres actually people that think its not easier. :eek: As I said in another thread thats why they were invented in the first place.

datamax,
I too try to draw before the animal is actually where I want to shoot it but if it takes even 1 minute longer than you thought it would for it to get into your lane things get touchy. How bout 3 minutes? or 5? or 10? We all know how long a deer can stop & just stand in one spot if it decides to & when that happens sooner or later you gotta let down & in my case anyway almost always get busted.

No question, its easier to shoot & hunt with a crossbow. Does that mean its not bowhunting? Guess it depends on your definition of bowhunting.
Dunno what I'd define it as but I dont think it would turn that many new guys loose in the woods & thats what it seems most are concerened with.

I think alot of guys that ALREADY bowhunt might give it a whirl, I sure would. But someone who's never hunted or shown an interest in it before isn't likely to wake up one day & say "Crossbows are legal? Holy cow I gotta get one & kill some deer with it"
IMO you hafta be somewhat dedicated to being a hunter just to complete the bow course for hunting. Not that its a hard course but its a boring 8 hour class that IMO would be intolerable if you werent serous about it.

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

Raise the weapon, pick your aim point, put the crosshairs on it, flip off the safety, squeeze trigger.

Raise the weapon, hook up your release (or grab the string with your fingers) pick the correct time to draw so you won't be detected, draw, pick a spot, establish sight picture, release.

Which is the correct procedure for using a hunting bow?

Which could just as easily describe hunting with a gun?

Duh!

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

Never mind - why ask if you don't wish to listen. Bye

steve

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

Arthur P - if there was a safety on the mechanical release everything would be equal in your scenario.

Are you suggesting that if the safety was removed from a crossbow, or added to the mechanical release, it would change the ease of use for either weapon ?

I am not arguing the legality of crossbows nor which is more comparable to gun or even if compounds should be in archery season.

All I am saying is this compound is easier to train in than my .270 a few months back and while its not as accurate as far as groups I am fairly certain I can shoot 3-5" groups right now, with 2 days of shooting it, at 30 yards and maybe beyond. Crossbows cannot be that easy, I just do not see how its possible.

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

You should buy or shoot a crossbow before you say things like a compound is easier. Pick a crossbow up & shoot it & it shoots groups right off the bat. Adjust your sights & your done. Neither is true of a bow, usually anyway. Crossbows dont need tuning, no nock height adjustments, no rest adjustments nuthin, just sight it in.

You also left out a couple steps from Arthurs post, such as attaching your release & drawing the bow. Other than they both shoot arrows they are not the same. No draw length issues, the list is longer than you seem to realise. Much less clearence problems shooting from a tree or a blind.

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

Leverdude - I'll try to find a crossbow in the coming weeks to play with and report back to you and everyone my findings. If indeed I find a compound much easier to shoot, then you and Arthur P and the others will acknowledge this and rethink your stance on crossbows then ?

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

They might, I wont.
I already did what your planning to do. I got a crossbow just to get it. Its not fancy & the trigger sucks but it shoots groups just fine & that with several different spined arrows & different weight heads. Its just plain consistant in all the ways we as archers strive to be. I'm not argueing with you just trying to explain what I have found to be true. Its not a long distance weapon, I can shoot my bow further with confidence than I can the crossbow but that may well be because I shoot my bow alot more. Drop past 25 is faster than my bow.
I'm not in anyway knocking crossbows, just stating that theyre easier to use in a hunting situation. Slower to reload is the only point I can come up with where they lose & that almost a moot point as bowhunting is usually a one shot deal for me.

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

I have shot both and have two issues:

- the drawing in the presence of a deer with a bow, its MUCH harder to do this with a deer in range, than a xbow which functions like a gun and requires much less movement. However, your commentn about the trad bow/compound bow is somewhat valid.

My MAIN issue with crossbows is the reason spouted to introduce them, they want MORE hunters. Now wait, my objection to this is that if it IS based on biological ability, fine, add them in. However, here in NH we have about a 5-7% success rate and for most of the state the deer herd is much lower than F&g goals, some areas are UNDER 2 deer per sq mile. IN this case more hunters is a bad thing, it will result in more deer killed which is bad for the herd, and YES, I am in favor of reducing the season/limits in these areas as now. If the area needs more deer killed, I have no real issue with introducing crossbows, I would like to see them singled out as a different season, using an archery tag possibly, similar to how NH does muzzleloaders, they have their own season but use the firearms deer tag, however in some of the state you can shoot a doe.

Crossbows ARE easier and quicker to get decent with. Your claim of 3-5 inch groups at 20 yards, I don't consider that hunt ready, consistent 3 inch groups, sure, but 5 inch groups, nope. I also believe you will find that as you go to 30 yards your groups will double in size, or close to it. As the target gets perceived to be smaller, you will have a harder time holding on it. Most archers have a "slam dunk" shot range and most have a range where beyond that their groups just fall apart big time.

I have taught new archers to shoot compounds and had them inside 5 inch groups in well under 30 minutes. I have helped new crossbow shooters, who were already gun shooters, and they were slapping arrows against each other within 15 minutes. HUGE difference.

In the hands of an expert, however I will take the compound shooter over a crossbow shooter, especially as the range gets longer.

--Bob

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

Bob H in NH if your archery season is that crowded, perhaps you need to start an intiative to ban compounds ? I bet 95% of your archery hunters are compound shooter are they not ? I looked and could not find what total percentage of your states deer harvest was gun killed and archery killed. Do you know ? My point is, most states from a harvest/management tool views shows archery kill a minimal impact. In states that they have a significant impact, its compound shooters doing the killing. So suggesting that a crossbow would be an impact like you suggest is merely pointing out the existing impact and subsequent problems that the compound bow presents, doesn't it ?

Then you must be 100% against recurve and longbow shooters ? They do not hold near that kind of grouping.

30 minutes to accuracy vs 15 minutes ........... thats not huge at all. A rifle takes that long to sight in. 3" groups with a rifle aint bad and you're expecting this of compounds ? But for arguments sake, let us assume that the crossbow, compound shooters can hold 3" groups to 25 yards. A recurve/longbow shooter can never hold those groups even the best of the best can't.

It seems that people use the " crossbow is easier " argument to validate banning them from archery season when compared to compounds. Yet when people say " compounds are easier " to validate banning them from archery season when compared to recurve/longbows it gets very quiet.

Can you explain that based on your views of accuracy between those weapons ?

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

Dude, you just want to argue.
If all you could do was 3" at 30 yards with a rifle thats not too good IMO.
A crossbows easier period. That doesnt make it bad, just easier. I can see why people might be inclined to think it doesn't belong in the archery season. As I said earlier (or maybe a different thread) I'd like to see them legal during firearms season in bow only areas but the more I ponder this (mostly because of this thread) the more I get to thinking it shouldnt be in the regular archery season. Give them a season of theyre own.

A person who never shot a bow before can't just pick one up & shoot it well. You said you just started AGAIN after a few years. Thats because your muscles already knew what to do. Kinda like riding a bike.

A crossbow can be picked up & a 3 year old could shoot it. My 8 year old shoots my crossbow darn near as well as I do but cant hit a barn with his little bow & arrow. Well maybe a barn but not the door :)
I should say tho that he shot guns, which operate & are sighted just like a crossbow since he was 4.

A bow needs to be tuned to you, a perticular person & you have to be tuned to it as well in order to shoot regular good groups.

A crossbow just needs to be sighted in & shot. Dont matter if your 5' tall with a 24"draw or 7'6" with a 40 inch draw, once sighted in you just pick it up & shoot.

I'v yet to find someone who's bow I can shoot to the same point of impact with regularity I can get close but were I to hunt with it I'd a had to sight in every one.

Another thing your mistaken on is that no ones trying to ban them, people are trying to get them accepted.
No one should have to prove that theyre not acceptable, rather the burden should be on those who want them accepted. Prove to me that a crossbow isn't alot easier to shoot well.
Thats gonna be hard to do because I know that if I put down my bow for a month even. When next I shoot it takes a few arrows before I'm where I am right now.

I also know I can pick up that xbow after a year, cock it, nock a bolt & get a good rest (another thing you cant do with a bow) & drill a matchbook 20 yards away 9 times outta ten. Cant do that regular with my compound right now & I'v been shooting it at least 6 shots at least every
other day since Sept when the season opened. Can hit a playing card every time but the matchbooks just too small for my form I guess.

All thats been said already, if you still think its harder to shoot a crossbow than a compound then its obvious that thats what you believe.

No big deal really, you asked & I tried to explain. :D

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

Like compounds were ?

Maybe you are right. But in the end, I think my argument is strong that compounds and crossbows are all really fairly easy to shoot with very minimal practice and acceptable accuracy. See the post above, the guy can get people shooting acceptable accurancy within 15-30 minutes with either "bow" yet we all know recurve and longbow shooters do not have near this accuracy. Based on the argument that easier decides what should and should not be allowed in archery season, its clear then that neither compounds nor crossbows belong. But the crux of this is that most everyone shoots compounds, so there convictions and arguments and beliefs contradict their choice of weapons in legal archery season.

I am going hunting next weekend. My goal is to get within 20 yards of a good buck. Nothing, absolutely nothing about the hunt will change with the type of bow I have in my hand until its time to shoot. If I have a compound I'll draw when the deer isn't in my presence (his head behind a tree or as he's coming in) and will draw with a triggered release, and shoot a quiet bow with high maneuverability and high speed and 3-5" accuracy. If I have a crossbow, I'll wait until he'd 20 yards and in postion and shoot a very clumsy and loud bow, high speed with 3-5" accuracy. both fairly easy shooting. if I take my recurve, I'll have to wait until the exact moment and exact postion, then make the movements of drawing, using fingers and no triggers or sights, full weight of the draw, quiet bow and slow arrows with maybe 8-10" accuracy at 20 yards.

Only when I choose to shoot does what bow in my hand matter, and the crossbow and compound are very close in the performance they give and the ease of shooting. the recurve is vastly different

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

The difference is that HE helped them & showed them what to do. They couldnt just buy one, open the box & shoot it. Matter of fact, if they practice before they hunt I think most will find its not as easy in real life as it is in a shop at a known distance. I know I was humbled. I may well be wrong as I'v shot guns for years & when I picked up a crossbow found it much easier than a compound to master, it was almost boring.

I suppose that compound shooters had a battle getting into the game in theyre time & all the things you said are true, recurves are harder than compounds. So what, you asked about xbows, had you asked about recurves vs compounds I'd a told you compounds are easier. Your still drawing & shooting a bow tho & IMO thats the key difference.

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

Well if you are going to argue, you need to use what I say, now what you want to hear.

Not crowded with hunters, just the deer herd needs to grow, so as they usually argue here for crossbows "to allow more people to hunt", this makes no sense, we need to kill less deer not more. In fact, historically for the last several years the largest increase in the deer kill has been muzzleloader hunters, this has skyrocketed. They get a 10 day season before general firearms season, and get more liberal doe allowances. Archers take I believe (couldn't find it for this year) less than 2K of these deer.

Overall statewide, all seasons NH runs around % success rate, we run around 80K hunters who take about 10K deer (using this years numbers) that's 12.5, I couldn't find the breakdown, but a "normal" archer success is around 5-7%. The states goals for the herd is to GROW it, so adding more weapons and more seasons is not the right answer. Statstically reducing the archery season won't matter, since we take relatively few, reducing the gun season/muzzleloader season would need to be done to make up for the increase, this wouldn't fly well with the NH hunters. I would assume a crossbow hunter to be as successfull as a compound hunter, maybe even less. So figure another 1600 deer killed on top of the 10K we already get and this will reduce a deer herd when it needs to grow, if our current kill rate is resulting in a steady to slowly declining herd, why add more to the kill?

I am not going to argue this with you, but no I don't consider a 3-5 inch group good enough to hunt, just ask my kids who will NOT bow hunt until they can hold inside 5 inches every time at 20 yards with a bow. As for traditional hunters, the ones I know that hunt with them will shoot 3-5 inch groups with them. I have one and won't hunt with it for just that reason. As a group, these folks are also more experienced hunters so less effected by things like buck fever. A typical in your yard 3-5 inch group will grow to 5-8 inches very quickly in the woods. i will conceed that if you can hold EVERY arrow at 20 yards INSIDE 5 inches, you are good to hunt AT 20 yards. But no larger than that.

READ what I said, crossbow shooters at 20 yards in 15 minutes SLAPPING SHAFTS together! HUGE DIFFERENCE from a 5 inch group to a 1 inch group.

3 inch groups with a rifle, off a bench is horrible.

I have never argued for them to be excluded based on accuracy. Never, I have pointed out they are much easier to get accurate quickly with over a compound, and you are right a compound is much quicker to get accurate with over a traditional bow.

I argue against crossbows for two reasons, one VERY valid in my state, one valid, in my opinion, anywhere:

- NH deer herd cannot handle another weapon added to the list. If they are looking to increase hunter participation (which NH has held fairly steady over the years) this will ONLY raise the kill, which will not be beneficial to the deer herd. Now IF we were in a state where they needed to take more deer, that removes this objection.

- Crossbow, in my opinion is NOT a bow. It is not hand drawn, its it not held at full draw by hand, it is not drawn in the presence of the animal. First two speak to the definition of a bow (actually we have laws against things like draw=loc etc, that keep a bow mechanically at/near full draw), the third goes to the primary difficulty in deer hunting. I was at a F&G meeting discussing cross bows when Mr. Horton from Horton crossbows said the reason he hunts with a crossbow is BECAUSE he got tired of the animals catching him drawing the bow! Well sorry, this is part of the game! I actually have no objection to crossbows, I just feel they belong in their own season, they are not archery. Of course, should they be added somewhere, at least here in NH adjustments need be made to reduce the kill in some other areas.

--Bob

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

Lets be fair here, setting up a crossbow is actually VERY hard, I have setup and tuned a few and find it MUCH harder to get good flight than I do in tuning a compound. However once done, they are quicker/easier to learn to shoot, not that this is a bad thing.

The introduction of compounds was brought up, this happened over ALOT of objection from traditional shooters about how there weren't bows etc. all the arguments we have today over crossbows. The point is, there is a line somewhere, its what makes it viable to have seperate seasons for different weapons, the line moves from time to time, the line is re-adjusted from time to time and there are arguments on both sides to move or not move it. For this instance I personally don't agree with moving the "archery" line to include crossbows.

A similar argument is starting in muzzleloader areas, with the introduction of in-lines and the growing technology there, a modern muzzleloader has blown away the abilities of the muzzleloader that existed when muzzleloaders got their own season. That fight is brewing to re-draw that line as well.

--Bob

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

Got my cross bow second hand & it was assembled. :) Got my bows second hand & they came naked.
Nope, I'm not bored with the bow yet at all, I like to tinker & they sure offer alot of oportunities for tinkering. :D
Might be different with the xbow if I could hunt with it but I cant & shooting it out back at targets I got bored. Put a lazer red dot sight from an airgun on it & you cant miss. You put that dot on what you want to hit & squeeze the trigger & you got it. I shoot my 3d tartget at 25 from the hip. Cant hit a match book like that but keeping them in the kill zone is a simple matter. Again I'm not knocking crossbows, just saying theyre easier to shoot acurately with less hassle. If they allowed it here I'd use one for sure, but I'd still know its easier than a bow, which is easier than a spear & so on. That was his question, somewhere it got to be why cant he use it in archery season & thats one I dont have the answer to. I want to say, sure as it flings arrows & is therefore subject to the same limitations, at the same time I know its easier to hunt with.
Theres been more than one time I would of gotten a deer if I could point & shoot so to speak. I'v been busted drawing, I'v been left hanging till my eyes were poping out waiting at full draw for an animal to take one more step, bout 2 weeks ago I was stuck in my stand 2 cold to draw my bow as a couple does fed within 20 yards of me. That part, the murphy factor so to speak is an important part of what I call bowhunting.
I dont regret the missed shot opertunities because I like being out there & if every hunt was a slam dunk I'd get bored I think.

So again, :D I think they are definately easier to shoot acurately & while I dont know if they should or shouldnt be allowed during bow season if they were I'd definately give it a shot. ;) I'd try if theyu had theyre own season as well, which is probably the best option. IMO

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

Bob,
Mines a simple recurve Barnett 150#. So it might be easier than the fancy new ones but I was suprised at how close field points & broadheads flew & thought they would all shoot like that. Still tho, like you said, once set up theyre easy to shoot relatively speaking anyway. I supose someone who never shot a gun but always shot a bow might not feel the same but just picking 2 people off the street who arent familiar with either & giving one a bow & one a xbow, my moneys going on the guy with the crossbow. ;)

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

Bob H in NH - I disagree with your opinion obviously, but let me ask this. Since your state needs fewer deer killed, what are your suggestions in how to achieve this ? Maybe banning compounds would go a long way ?

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

Bob,
Wherebouts in NH are you?
I'v a camp in Stratford up in Coos county I'll be going up to this weekend.
Your sure right about theres not many deer there. Seen way more Moose than deer & never had the time to hunt deer up there proper. I buy a license up there every year but usually just walk the woods with my son hoping to see a deer. So far no deer but we see alot of other things. Sure is beautiful country.

I think the deer numbers issue up there is more complicated than alot of places.
Here in CT the only thing that limits the numbers is hunting & highways.
Places like northern NH mother nature takes a toll on the herd without our help.
IMO it just naturally has a less dense whitetail population. Makes a more challenging hunt to be sure.

Speaking of hunting, I think I might go sit in my blind for the last hour or so of light.
Later. ;)

RE: how can a crossbow be easier ?
 

Datamax, its clear you have your mind made up but ok, I'll bite. If you look at the NH numbers, yup, banning compounds would make a small difference, but not that large, we have UNDER 2K deer shot with bows of all types, most of those are compound I would bet (they don't track it). But since you asked what I think should be done:

- move to doe permits issued by area, right now each area gets x number of either sex days per season (bow, muzzleloader, firearms). Moving to doe permit better controls the overall doe kill per zone, right now given early snow we get a high doe kill and hunters can move zone to zone to chase the doe. Hunting license comes with a BUCK tag, the doe permit turns this into an either sex permit. All weapons.

- Shorten muzzleloader season IF the above doesn't work, looking at deer numbers this is the season that has had the most percentage of deer kill change. More and more people are using the modern muzzleloaders to shoot a doe. Typcially the state is mostly closed to doe hunting during gun season, muzzleloader is typically open to most/all of the season for doe.

- remove the second archery tag, though statistically this is insignifigant with only about 200-300 used yearly.

- remove the last two weeks of archery season (Dec 1-15).

Do this for 5 years and adjust as needed.

LeverDude, I live just south of Manchester and hunt alot in areas J, M, D

--Bob