I thought since we have a good debate going about what triggers the second rut, I figure it would be kind of beneficial and fun to start a debate about the so called "second rut". I believe the second rut exists, just as pronounced as it has been protayed in the major hunting publications. Based on my notes from the period it is said to take place (December 6-10 in Wisconsin/Iowa/s.Minnesota), i havent seen an increase of bucks chasing does. And the young does dont all come into estrous the same 4 days. Whats your take on the second rut: hardcore and prounounced or spread out ?

slayer

The second rut, in my opinion, is pretty spread out. The does that weren't bred during the primary rut are bred the second time around, but only when it's convenient for the breeder bucks to tend to them. That late in the season, the bucks are tired, run down, and hungry, which means that they're not going to be up chasing the hot trails day in and day out like they do before their energy levels are depleted. I believe that this is especially true in areas where the buck-to-doe ratios are out of whack.

i did rattle in a small 6 point one time in the second archery season in pa. he looked more curious and not in the mood to fight...so who knows?!

2nd rut: Here's my story - Dec. 23, club property during the late muzzleloader season in CT., spend the morning on one piece of property, scouting and finding does all over. Lots of snow on the ground and it was a good time to walk some areas looking for trails, sign, etc.

Had lunch, then went to another club property with my Summitt climber, and chose a tree looking up a hill with my back toward a thick stand of trees. It was about 2:00pm, and I saw nothing until 4:00 when a large, 8-point comes running full tilt over the hill, straight down as if on a frozen rope. Halfway down, he starts to slow a bit, and although I had my gun up and trained on him, I elected to pass on the shot. You may ask why, believe me, I ask myself why, but the bottom line is my hunting partner hadn't shot anything yet, and this deer was moving straight at him. He happened to be on stand about 150 yrds. from me, also looking up the hill. Well, that big 8-point basically walked right by him at no more than 20 yrds., while he had his gun up and looking at a doe up on top of the hill, some 120 yrds. away - NEVER EVEN SAW HIM!!

Well, I about jumped out of my skin when that deer walked into the woods, but quickly went back to business because sure enough, buck #2, a 6-point, comes tearing over the hill after the first. Well, I wasn't about to give you know who another chance, so I took him with one shot at 75 yrds. He went about 10 yrds., and dropped. Now, I'm not sure whether those two bucks were after the doe my hunting partner had sighted, and was watching thru his scope, or whether there was another hot doe somewhere behind us in the woods. But I can tell you for sure, those bucks were running full tilt, wide-eyed, and not "away" from, definitely "after" in rut mode. Up until that point, I had never seen buck act like that in the late season, but this past year changed my opinion of the 2nd rut.

I'll try to put him in here:

I too believe it is spread out. This past deer season I experienced some of the best hunting I have ever had in late season. I saw 3 bucks chasing and looking for does, all over 140" in late December, just could not get a shot. One of them I saw on 3 different occasions, albeit in different locations.

From my experience in Maine there is definately a second rut. Not quite like the rut, but a rut none the less. The main diffrence I see is durring the first rut you get it all. Pre rut rubbing,scrapeing and chaseing. Right through the peak of the rut.

The winters are pretty harsh here and once the rut dies down the bucks are trying to recover. The second rut seems to be comprised of doe that weren't breed durring the rut and yearlings that are breed late. Should the bucks happen across one of these deer they will breed but I don't see bucks out actively seeking out and chaseing down doe.

Not exactly. They just don't have as many choices. The does stay together. They'll leisurely check them out to find one that's right. If not they move on to the next herd. They're always looking for a piece of tail... one of the reasons we find active scrapes through February sometimes. It's not spread out as much as it's less pronounced because of fewer does to be serviced. Also... usually by that time a whole lot of their buddies have bit the bullet, arrow or whatever. They really go more nocturnal as a way of surviving.

That's what I'm saying. They seek does when it's convenient for them, not with the same vigor and dedication as they did during the main rut when the hot does are running rampant. The second rut is much more "hit or miss".

I've never called it the "2nd rut". The bucks are looking for a piece of tail from late October thru February or even March. It just turns out that there are does that go into estrous later in the year usually due to when they were born.

I call the entire period "the rut" with different phases like pre-rut , prime-rut , and late-rut (or late breeders).

Some well thought out thoughts presented.

My experience has been that the "Second Rut" is a misnomer, better entitled the "Leftover Rut". Of course it's real - though you cannot bank on it. You must however be able to recognize it and take advantage of the situation.

On northeastern hunting lands, Hunting has been going on for 2 months by the time of the second rut, and traditional "pre-rut" tactics like rattling usually get very poor results - at least for me after Dec. 1. Grunts, especially Tending Grunts seem to work OK at best, but better than rattling.

The bottom line is that a "Hot Doe" changes everything - whether its Late September or January - You just need to know how to recognize the signs and take advantage of the situation.