is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

This seems to be an extremely knowledgable crowd, so I want to pose a few questions concerning the whitetail rut. I am currently reading a book called "Hunting Whitetails by the Moon." I am curious if anyone has read it and what were your thoughts? The more I read, the more interested I get. I have gone back through my hunting logs (and from memory) and definitely see a correlation from when I thought the rut occurred and when the author (Alshiemer) predicted the rut to occur. Can anyone else verify a correlation also? And as a side note, I am just curious if anyone has their own theories as to the trigger (or triggers) of the whitetail rut in the fall.

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

I haven't read the book, but I believe the rut is triggered by the amount of daylight there is.

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

i heard about the hunters moon which varies within a few weeks mostly around the 9th of nov. this year, the hunters moon is Oct 28th if i remember right so that means a little earlier rut...i think thats what i read somewhere

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

I did read that book and I have to say that he has some intresting arguments for his theory and the years of study they conducted to back it up. His predictions in Deer and Deer Hunting Magazine seem to be right on.

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

right off the bat, fogive my spelling.

Some say and there is some if not alot of data to back up that theory , that the second full moon after the fall equanox is refered to as the hunters moon.the rut has directly been linked to photosynthisis, if that (the shortening of days) is any indication,and when the moon is full... well there ya go. I do know after seeing years of deer harvest data from a local Military base where I worked for the hunting program for over nine years, it appears that regardless of the moon I bet an entire week of vacation that the rut will fall in around Nov 11th year after year,in the area I hunt. What you are doing is the right step, Your gathering knowledge from others opinions,in reading, asking questions ect.... But most of yall you have kept logs of your sightings, harvests or whatever you were looking back into. Put all that together and you WILL become a better hunter. Good Luck

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

Down here in South Texas I (along with others) believe that the rut in this area is triggered by changes in the weather. Are rut normally starts between Dec. 7-14 and peaks around christmas time. The temperature in sept-nov. is normally pretty warm, ranging from the 90's - high 60's. But it seems like we always get are first cold front during the first part of December each year. When ever that cold front hits, it seems like it makes all the bucks get up and start searching for does.

I normally dont hunt "by the moon", it really dosent make a difference to me what the moon is doing. But if any of ya'll are planning on hunting in South Texas, then you better be in a stand during the first cold front in December, because I can promise you that your going to see rutting activity. And one more thing, make sure you have a pair of rattling horns with you :D

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

curious...its interesting that the whitetail deer is one of the most hunted game animals and yet as hunters we really don't really understand what triggers the rut to occur. i mean, just in the few replies to my original post, we already have a few different theories as to what triggers the rut - amount of daylight, weather and the lunar cycle. maybe the rut is far too complex to associate the trigger to one specific event. maybe it is a multitude of events that must occur together in order to set off the rut. its been my experience that the rut does not occur at the same time every year. i always wondered why...i was always under the impression that the rut was caused by the amount of daylight (or lack thereof.) so, to me it would only be logical to assume that the lack of daylight would be the same year to year during the fall bow season, hence, the rut should occur the same time year after year. so, that really had me baffled...anyway, i was turned on to this book and decided to post the question here to see what others thought, especially specifically to the region they hunt. its interesting to see when the rut is occuring for different people. please keep the replies coming. this is great stuff! :)

(btw, i don't hunt by the moon either, i hunt anytime i can!)

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

Ben. Just curious did you see the same activity (fall 2003) as you had in years past. Usaully as you said you can almost pick a week. Usually around the 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th of November when the big bucks really get into the mix. I'm not talking about the dinks chasing. But the Mature bucks that you would never know were there. They almost appear like someone flipped a swicth. Last year I did not see that. The dinks were still doing alot of chasing well into the 20th of November with not a mature buck within site ( except a high 140's 8 point that got himself shot). This is highly irregular for the area I have been bowhunting. Years past the mature bucks were out roaming in search of does well before the gun season. I didnt see that this last year. Its intresting that Alsheimer predicted a late rut last year. I dont buy totally into this moon thing myself but Alsheimer is starting to convince me a little piece at a time. I will have to keep more notes (mostly video tape with notes) before I will be totally convinced. I will add our buck to doe ratio is not where it should be to produce an aggresive rut. That may be part of the problem in itself. JMHO

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

I just recently read that the moon theory varies up to 11.4 days, that's not to good in my book. I'am sure that if the time is right, and the moon is bright something is going to happen. But for now I just watch the deer when in the woods and the increase of road kills when out of them. Other then that, the photoperiod correlation has a variation of only 4.6 days (AUG / Ask Bowhunter). I still say watch the deer.

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

I'd be hard pressed to believe the rut "is triggered" by anything other than phermones(sp?) produced by the doe and the bucks own hormones.

I do strongly believe in the moon phases playing part in travel and feeding patterns.

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

in tennessee what i think kicks off the rut is the first frost we get......i have seen deer running everywhere

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

BOWFANATIC,

that is exactly what Alsheimer is saying...He claims that the second full moon after the autumnal equinox is what triggers does to start their estrus cycle. Of course, it is in fact the sexual pheromones that drives the rut, no doubt, but he's linking the pheromones (at least the does) to the full moon. he has years of research to back his claims. He hopes to get at least 15 years of data to see if his claims hold true. in every research year he has seen that about 80% of the doe population that he researches is bred during what he calls the breeding window following the second full moon after the autumnal equinox. 10% typically are bred during the breeding window following the first full moon after the autumnal equinox (harvest moon.) the remaining 10% or so are bred during the next estrus cycles (which occur 28 days later) during the breeding window following the second full moon after the autumnal equinox.

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

Thats your first mistake.

Me Too! It's got to be the best week of the year!

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

Do not conclude that increased "buck sightings" or activity is an indicator of full rut. This is where much confusion is started.

Peak rut is the small time frame that the majority of the does are bred. The running around of bucks - mature or not - really has no true correllation to the above.

Cold fronts, new moons...etc......can greatly increase the daylight activity of bucks - again this has nothing to do with does being bred.

I am a firm believer in photoperiodism - (deers actions controlled by hormones - triggered by daylight)

For the most part - the true "peak" rut has limited mature buck movement - as they are on hot does that often do not move much and often seek out deep cover.

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

good point. it seems everyone has a different idea what the "rut" really means. i think of the rut as the actual breeding of does, not the seeking and chasing phases. I definately see a huge increase in buck activity a week or so before what i call the "rut" (breeding does.) once the rut peaks, i see very little buck activity for quite some time. so, that's the reason i would like to know what triggers the rut. (if anything does.) it would make planning for the rut much easier. :)

so, rack, do you see the rut happening the same time every year in your area?

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

Yes - photoperiodism predicts this - the decrease in light is always consistant year to year.

But daylight buck activity may be dependent on many other factors

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

I hunt deer thoughout the entire season but hold off in shooting some respectable bucks in anticapation of the rut. I live for the rut. I have kept a hunting journal on when it peaked out here. 4 out of 5 years it has been the last week in Nov., regardless of the moon but at this time in nov. the days get a lot shorter and sure signs of winter already here that also effect it. 3 years ago it was about 10 days later and I can only relate that too the snow didn't come yet and the weather was mild. Seems like when that snow hits the ground I see increase amounts of buck ativity at unusual times thoughout the day being stupid. This last week in nov. here is pretty accruate because right near 200 days later you can see the dropping of fawns. Bobby

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

When I say the rut is on is when I see bucks chasing does and or does standing for bucks. Our rut hovers right around Nov. 10th give or take depending on conditions. I have always been firm believer in photoperiodism as the primary rut trigger. However, what I witnessed last year changed my thinking. I now believe there are multiple triggers. What I wound up seeing was a small amount of rut activity during the normal time. The rut normally corresponds to our shotgun season so there is normally a great deal of input with which to guage the amount of rut activity going on in the woods. Well this year was unseasonably warm and there was very very little rut activity. However, I, as well as others, saw a great amount of rut activity the from Nov. 27th - Dec. 2nd, which is way late for use. I realize that some does were bred in early Nov. however the "peek" of the rutting activity was 2 -3 weeks later than normal. I talk to several people on a daily basis during hunting season to discuss deer movement, several of which are fire fighters that hunt so much it would get most of us divorced. So basically I was either in the woods or talking to people that were, everyday of the season and those were my observations from last year. The warm weather seemed to play a huge role in the timing of our rut which is almost always in the second week of Nov. I think the moon plays a role but I am certainly not going to not hunt because the moon cycle is wrong. Now I may plan my trip to go somewhere during a favorable moon cycle, but I am certainly not going to set home. Just my observations

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

Rack is correct. the amount of daylight triggers the rut, just like it triggers the time when deer begin growing their winter coat. mother nature is too unpredictable for anything to be based on the weather. If deer began the rut when the temperature the deer in souther california may never start. As far as the moon goes, I'm not sure about how it affects the rut, but I too believe that it affects bucks in daylight hours.

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

i firmly believe when the first frost hits.......deer hormones......go nuts..

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

In areas where ther is no frost - how do deer breed?

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

Do you guys think the rut occurs at basically the same time each year?

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

i'm just saying around my area........they do..............where there is no frost..(which there as been frost).like deep south....maybe a cold front kicks off the rut....don't know about the deep south.......

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

And if there happens to be no frost or no cold fronts in your area or the deep south - How will they breed??

Just prodding you to think how fickle the weather is how inconsistant or lacking of a true mechanism it would be.

If weather was the true or even major predictor - I could foresee years with no rut and no young being born.

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

you are true...........but weather does play a roll in the rut to...deer will breed.......

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

there will always be a frost or cold front.......they will breed.....;)

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

i don't know about the deep south....maybe someone from the deep south can tell us what they think starts the rut in the deep south....

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

Rack,

Do you think the rut occurs at basically the same time every year? Does it occur at basically the same time in your area every year?

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

Also, if I am not mistakem, the amount of moon light influences the ratio of daylight to dark therefore having an influence on photoperiodism.

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

silent, i believe he says it does for his area...


rack,

but how about the week before breeding begins? imo, i think there is only ONE thing that affects buck daylight activity - hot does! :D

would you agree to this statement?

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

yes - within a week from year to year.

Based on fetus studies from doe taken in Jan/feb. and from drop times of fawns in the spring. I see no evidence of larger peek breeding fluxuations. I also see a drop off of scrape activity at about the same time - one of the only real indicators I use.

Even though buck activity seems much more random - at times non-existent - those fawns drop right on time:)

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

Just for discussion purposes if photoperiodism is the main factor in deciding the seaking, chasing and peak phases of the rut why then would they not be the exact same dates from year to year. The only dates that do change even if only by a few days from year to year are the dates of the harvest and rutting moon. Rack I do agree there are other factors that can add to a deminished rut. Weather. who wants to run around during mid day during unseasonably warm weather with thier winter coat on when you can do it in the cool of the night. Buck to doe ratio out of wack. Who needs to run around. Like the old bull said "lets walk down there and $%^& em all. Hunter pressure. Force them to stay in the thick (go where no man will or cant without being detected) or wait till an hour after dark. I want to learn. That is why I will never stop asking questions or trying to find answers for the reasons those animals do what they do. Alsheimer has raised an intresting point. I just dont want to say to myself he's full of $^&% and not believe a word he writes and find out 3 years from now he has data to back up every word he wrote. The one thing I know for sure is the more I read about the deer we hunt is there are no givens. Except right place right time. I know guys me included that are at this all year. Then I know guys that show up and shoot a big one. Right place right time.

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

I think the triggering of the rut is photoperiod, like rack attack mentioned earlier. Peak rut here is ALWAYS first week of november to around mid november. Has little to do with the moon. Deer are gonna wanna breed whether there is a full moon or a half moon, simple as that.

slayer

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

toby, you're speaking my language! i feel the same as you. that's why i started this thread. i want to give myself the best opportunity possible.

rack,

that's interesting...alsheimer monitors a radio-collared research group. so, he knows the days fawns are dropped in the spring and has found that using the 199 day gestation (sp?) period for fetuses he is able to know the day the fawns were conceived. and he states that all (well, i guess 80% give or take) fall into the breeding window following the rutting moon. (the other 20% were conceived during the breeding window of either the pre-rut moon or the post-rut moon.)

i just wish there was a simple answer because i'm being pulled both ways here. i just keep going back to the rut in my area never seems to happen at the same time from season to season...there must be reason why...

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

In the book tending and breeding phase. "When breeding begins scraping nearly ceases and bucks curtail much of the activity that took place throughout the rut's dominace, seeking and chasing phases. The phase usually begins five to seven days after the rutting moon and last for about 14 days. During this time 70 to 80 percent of the mature does will be breed".

That will usally cover the time period you are talking about. The question is what is the starting date????

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

Bobcat 10:



I'm from south Texas so I think I'm about as "deep south" as you can get. And like I said in my first post on page #1, the rutting activity seems to start once we get are first cold front in Dec. Down here people seem to be worried about other things then when the rut is going to start. Everybody knows that from Dec. 7- Dec. 25 the rut is going to be in full swing. Some years during this time we dont get cold fronts, which makes the hunting really hard because the bucks and does arent running around as much. But if we do get a cold front, it really makes the deer get in the rutting "mood".

The deer are going to rut and breed no matter what, weather its raining, snowing, or even if hell freezes over, there still going to rut.

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

Which is exactly why I dont believe weather or moon phase has anything to do with the rut.
It's been the same time period (2nd week of November) here for as long as I've been hunting.

I look at it this way. Moon phase , weather , lining of the galaxy , etc. has nothing to do with a woman getting her period the same time every month. I used to have a cat that you could set your calendar by every time she went into heat.
Why would a deer be any different than the rest of the animal kingdom?

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

i agree! you hear the weather thing from a lot of hunters,but it is just coincidental that it about time for the rut.does are going to come into heat every year at about the same time.weather only affects movement in my opinion.here in north ms.,the deer gun season opens the week prior to thaksgiving but the rut begins during the muzzleloader season the first week of dec.while i have taken some good buks the second week of dec with a ML, my best bucks have all been from dec. 24-jan 5th. since does start dropping fawns here in june,the younger does that were not born until the previous july/august cause the rut to continue into the end of january andd into feb. but the activity is not as furious as in dec.

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

so BOWFANATIC and loner, is it safe to assume that neither one of you believe in photoperiodism?

RE: is the moon the whitetail rut trigger?
 

Why do deer rut? Why do migratory birds fly south? Or north for that matter in the spring? Why do carbou migrate?

Natures Clock: Photoperiodism