i agree with adams^^^

but.....i think that the rut does start to happen at about the time in middle November (13th) which is usually about the time of a full moon. i have heard a theory that the rut is triggered by the full moon-the full moon triggers something in the deer's retina of the eye which gets the deer into the rutting mode. i do not know if this is true or not?????

i'm not defending the moon trigger theory. i just want to know the answer to better prepare myself, that's all. it seems there are a lot of different opinions on this subject.

i will interject here that alsheimer specifically states that his moon trigger theory only applies to the whitetail populations in the north, as that is all he has studied. (i think, specifically, his research group is in mass. can anyone confirm this?)

anyway, let me ask this question. can anyone recommend a study/experiment that someone has performed (similar to alsheimer's) that lends itself to the photoperiodism theory. (and where can i get my hands on the findings?)

rack-attack, i'm not trying to be a wise-@ZZ here, i'm just a little confused with your "B" answer to "Which is more important?" Doesn't the 199 day gestation period for deer fetuses lend itself to fawns being dropped in the spring regardless of whether they were conceived during the first couple of weeks in november or after the second full moon following the autumnal equinox (which usually occurs anywhere from the end of october to the end of november for most years, i believe)?

(sorry for the double-post.)

Thats a full one month spread.......A month is a long time for a fawn getting ready for its first winter. I Believe in harsh northern climates the window of oportunity between "winter is over" and "get ready for next winter" is a small one. One that requires a more rigid time table than the moon.

Thats why deer up north come into rut first and deer down south come into rut later. Each population of deer will "through the process of elemination" establish the best rut time - thus the best fawn drop.

Thanks Thunder......this is a perfect example........

Does who tended to come into heat later than others had a distinct fawn survival rate - so much so that their genetic traits lived on and became the "norm" for that herd. This couple of weeks made the difference between death and life.......................the moons habits are just a little to fickle for me.....

I gotto go

i believe it was november 8.

Thanks!

Harvest moon 2003 was October 10th and hunter moon was November 9th, 2003

Dirt2...see my earlier post.

I don;t know if has been said in this thread yet or not but I just want to piont out 1 thing to everyone, and this is where I think weather and the lenght of of daylight plays a huge role in the rut.

Alot of the doe urine producers are using artificial light to bring there does into heat to get the covetted gloden estrous pee. If this is the case does any one think that the length of daylight palys a role?

Can you post a website or something? If this is true I would definately have to change my views on this subject.