Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

Or should I say as accurate as possible ? Talking bowhunting only here ..... if I cannot shoot my longbow as well as a compound, do I have any "right" to be in the woods hunting with a bow that I'm less accurate with ?

What do ya'll think ?

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

Less accurate is a relative term. How much "less" are we talking about. It could be that your groups are 1" larger or the only way you could hit the barn is if you were inside of it.

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

No, we don't owe anybody or anything any particular degree of accuracy. However, we should always strive to shoot only within our own range of being relatively certain of making the kill quickly. For one person, with a recurve, this might be 5 yards. For another with a compound, it might be 30 yards. It's not important to be extremely accurate, but it is important to not shoot beyond your range of effectiveness for that particular weapon.

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

This sounds like the argument I made to you back when we were discussing the differences between compounds and crossbows. The argument always was that since both were relatively easy to shoot in comparison to a longbow and both are capable of higher levels of accuracy with less practice then is either really a "primitive weapon". At the time I made the theoretical argument that along that same line of thinking then couldn't someone make the argument that a traditional bow was not ethical because it required so much practice and was not as accurate or effective for the average shooter.

Nice idea to bring it back up for discussion. :)

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

;) We owe it to ourselves, our fellow hunters and most importantly our game that we are hunting, to become profficient with the weapon of our choice. I follow the theory of know your weapon, know your distances and know your limitations.

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

As long as "less accurate" is still capable of putting it in the vitals when you need to, then there is no problem. Now if one bow you can drill them in, and the other you just hope you can hit something now and then, that's a different story.
I know you said bowhunting only but I really think you can apply it to guns as well. I choose to rifle hunt with a little 44 mag cowboy gun. Is it as accurate as my 243.....not even close, but it still kills deer when I shoot at them.

Edited to add this:
I just find it very odd that someone would put the time and effort into gear, scouting, license, etc only to have it come time for the moment of truth and not be confident in finishing the job. Many guys do it, I just don't understand it.

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

Stealthy, define less accurate.

Having said that, I have seen guys flinging arrows out of trad gear that had/have no business hunting with said trad gear, myself included. That is one of the reasons I do not hunt with my recurve.

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

jimpok61

I ditto everything you said!!! YES WE DO OWE IT!!! Hunting is a privlege, not a right!

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

Yes you absolutely have the right IMO. I don't think it matters what the piece of equipment is, so long as you limit yourself to a distance that you are proficient at. Stuff can and will happen no matter what the equipment is that you are shooting. However, a long bow can be a very effective tool for those who are competent enough to shoot enough and limit themselves to shots that are within their range. The same is true of compounds. You can take your long boe that you are extremely proficient with at 15 yards and be much more ethical than some guy with a compound that isn't very proficient and shoots at every thing they see.

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

One shot... one kill is as accurate as you need. Beyond that you're splitting hairs.[8D] You owe it to yourself and mental wellness to achieve that accuracy as a minimum. If you want to say you owe it to the animal, or the sport, your drycleaner or whatever that's OK.... Just as long as you work to the goal, One Shot....One Kill!

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

to ones own self be true. You know in your heart of hearts if you should be out there or not. best of luck...

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

we owe it to the animal to harvest it as quickly and humanely as possible. I don't think you should take the bow you are "most" accurate with, because as was stated earlier, accurate is a relative term. If you are confident in your ability to put a good shot on one with the stick bow, by all means have at it. JMO

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

Yes, I think we should be as accurate as possible with what ever wepon we choose!
I started bow hunting when I was 12, I had a bow that was way to long for me and was shooting with no pins, I had no business being in the woods shooting at deer I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, luckily I only wounded one but missed a ton of them. Dad didn't have much money then so I really can't blame him! The next year I got a bow that fit but still didn't have and pins, I killed my first deer that year! The next year got a different bow and pins, my cousen showed me how to get them to work. Now I have $800.00 into a hunting bow and around $2000.00 into a target bow! And I shoot all the time!

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

IMO if you can make a clean quick kill with your long bow then use it. Just stay within your limitations for distance like most have said. If you can hit "the pie plate" at 20 yards with the long bow and 40 with a compound and you take the long bow for hunting that day just go to a stand that will offer shots 20 yards or less.

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

i think that you owe it to the animal that you are in pursuit of to kill it as quickly , painlessly , and ethically as you possibly can , and i think that it is based on your own personal confidence in your shooting on what you should and shouldnt try to take an animal with , just my 2 cents

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

I agree that we owe it to the animals we hunt. But it also depends on whether you are some backwoods jerk that doesn't care what looks back at you in the mirror. Me, I got a conscience. I'm never satisfied till I know I've put forth my best effort. And the guys looking back from the mirror has to agree.

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

I think we owe it to our sport.....to be as accurate as possible with our choice of weapon be it a long bow, recurve, compound or cross bow. Lets face it, we as hunters are in the minority. Bowhunters are even a smaller minority of the hunters. IMO, one sloppy bowhunter makes us all bowhunters look bad.

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

hmmmmmmmmm

So accuracy is not ultra important ? Lets say I can keep pie plate (12") size groups with my longbow at 20 yards with an occasional flyer. Thats +/- 6" any direction from where I am wanting the arrow to go.

Is that accurate enough ? Isn't 6" the difference between shooting between those branches and hitting them ? 6" ..... aint that the difference between a double lung, and a liver/gut hit ?

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

Depends how you look at it. My answer is Yes! I owe it to our bowhunting forefathers who started it all!

I agree! We owe it to the survival of our sport!

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

I have to agree with jimpok61. We owe it to ourselves, the animal and the hunters that we represent in the field. It only takes one bad apple to spoil the basket. It only takes one sloppy hunter to ruin it for a good number of hunters in their area.

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

Jimpo summed up my feeling.

If your longbow falls into your own ethical lines of an acceptable choice by all means us it! If not, I think you already know the answer! While we all have diferent reason for hunting and the choices we make regarding hunting, we do ultimately want to be successful as such setting yourself on a path that won't lead to that result is not a wise desicion and will not breed the confidence required to improve and built on past experience.

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

hmmmmmmm

Which is better ...

compound - 45 yard accuracy to the tune of 5" groups
crossbow - 30 yard accuracy to the tune of 5" groups
longbow/recurve - 15 yard accuracy to the tune of 5" groups

I know, as long as I stay within my effective range, right ? But we all KNOW when you're afield, and a 150" P&Y stud buck comes along wokring a scrapeline, you aint thinking "oh damn, that buck is 16 yard, 1 yard outside my effective range" - right ? And practice, in your confort zone, on a range or in your backyard groups aint going to be 2 hours motionless, in your cold tree stand shooting - right ?

So theoretically, I'd be more "ethiccal" and would be doing "our sport" better by going with equipment that allows me to put arrows - a higher % of the time - where I want them to go.

Right ?

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

Which is better for whom? To each his own!

Right! No matter which weapon you choose!

Absolutely!

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

BOWFANATIC - You didn't make much sense there. Reading from the bottom up, I'd say you're saying that a guy should use the weapono he's most accurate with in the name of the sport of archery and out of respoect for the animal - yet from the top down you say to each his own, shoot what you want to.

I choose a longbow, a weapon I (and most trad archers for that matter) am LESS accurate with in most any circumstance. That flies against what you were saying - doesn't it ?

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

I dont believe anyone else will have trouble comprehending what I said![&:]

What doesn't make sense?

First you said... And I said.. Meaning all have the same accuracy within their yardage limitations! So which is better for whom? Some like to get close to game , some like the long shots , which is better if they both hunt within their capabilities?

Absolutely not! Notice how I quoted your sentences that I responded to? I responded to each scenario you provided honestly with the information you supplied. You didn't say...the compound hunter shoots 1" groups at 15 yards -vs- the trad bowhunter that shoots 5" groups at 15 yds.. You said each of them could shoot 5" groups at different yardages. So hunt within your limitations.

Your too transparent stealthy!;) Dont beat around the bush , just get to your point man!

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

I said

you said



Okay. So I then said

Going on what you and I said above, I would be LESS etchical by using a bow that I'm not as accurate with - correct ? Yet you said ....

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

Whether you are ethical or not, has nothing to do with which bow you choose. It has to do with the decision you make when the animal is out of your effective range, with whatever weapon you brought. If I bring a rifle that I'm effective with out to 300 yards, and I shoot at a deer at 400, then I'm not being very ethical. If I bring a self bow that I'm effective with out to 12-15 yards, and I never shoot beyond that, then I'm making ethical decisions. It's not the weapon, it's the decision you make when that trophy is just out of your effective range.

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

I don't feel the above criteria is accurate enough at all.

Once you step into the realm of taking shots out of range because its a big animal.....weapon no longer has anything to do with it...it becomes plain old bad ethics.

I cringe everytime I here someone say they took a risky shot because "it was the only one they had" or "the buck was too big to pass up".

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

Totally wrong as far as I'm concerned. I've past on many deer because they were out side of my effective range.

That range shortens according to weather conditions(wind,rain) light and a few other factors.

Your batting 1000 so far wrong again.I practice alot with just one shot at a time.

Accuracy at the range? I watched a show where a world champion choked on a big buck,go figure.

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

I owe it to myself to be as accurate as I can be. It drove me nuts the two times I lost animals due to poor shots. It happens to everyone eventually. However if you are wounding animals alot get better or take up a new hobby.

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

I owe it to myself first and foremost. I take bow hunting too seriously to go out and hunt without being as "sharp" as I possibly can be.

Would you hunt with dull broadheads?[:'(]

Second, I respect the animals I hunt and truly believe that I owe it to them to be as proficent with my weapon as humanly possible. Ethical shots that offer a quick clean kills is the standard I hold myself to. If I'm not in position to take a high percentage ethical shot the deer has won that evenings hunt. Best believe I'll be back to match wits again though. Another day, anouther hunt.

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

I like the way you put that.

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

Simply put, I believe we owe it to our sport to be the best we can achieve.

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

Why ?

If I am "best" with a compound, am I unethical to keep on shooting my recurve, maybe wounding a few along the way ?

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

Stealthy...I think what they are trying to say is...um, how can I put this? If you don't know you can hit them where it counts but just think you can and you try and wound it, then you took a shot you should not have. If you practice at 15 yards and you see a deer at 16 yards......what do you have circles around your stand marking yardages? Someone needs to get a grip on that statement. They could have just as easily said 15 yards and 1 inch, LOL!

I can remember when several years ago I was the only one talking ethics and almost no one else would speak up, unless it was on the other side of the fence.
All I will say is if someone is constantly wounding deer and having to track a deer for a long time to put more arrows in it, or lose it all together then they are doing something wrong and need to change something somewhere. If they do not correct their mistakes then they are UNethical. I cannot understand why some people just don't understand this concept.

I will try to use a different approach. What if you were to take your lunch to work everyday and put it in the fridge in the break room. When you go to lunch at say 12:30 your lunch bag has been opened and a bite taken out of your sandwich. This happens every day and you finally found the culprit, but they say it was an accident that your bag and theirs were identical. You look and yes they are the same in appearance but you always have cheezits, and they always have barbeque tater chips. Well...if they were to pay attention they could easily notice that they had your bag and not theirs but for some strange reason they wouldn't do it. They would still take a bite of your sandwich and then notice it wasn't theirs and they'd put it back. Are they doing something wrong? Of course they are. It doesn't matter if they say it was an accident, the point is they will not pay attention to what they are doing and change.
Ethics is a deeper issue than many people think, but really all it boils down to is they are doing something wrong but will not fix it.

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

Dont post scenarios and then disregard them when someone responds specifically to your scenarios!

If you choose to use a compound...stick within your maximum range!

If you choose to use a xbow...stick within your maximum range!

If you choose to use a longbow...stick within your maximum range!

Whichever weapon you choose , you owe it to our sport to become proficient within your desired maximum range!

If you truly are not proficent with your longbow at 20 yds or 15 yds then you either need to practice more or shorten your range!

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

Regardless of what you shoot and how well or poorly you shoot, you'll do your quarry and yourself a great service by only taking shots that you are confident with...be it a rifle at 400 yds, a flintlock at 100, a compound at 50, or a longbow at 25.

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

Stealthy , let me ask you two questions if I may.

1) What is your maximum range with your longbow?

2)Are you confident you can put your arrow where it needs to be every time when hunting within your maximum range?

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

thundermug

I'm not disagreeing with that ... but why constantly wounding ? Why not after constantly missing ? (the only difference being absolute luck the arrows didn't hit meat, right ?)

BOWFANATIC - We're not on the same page here ! We all talk maximun effective ranges ... but thats all relevant and/or irrelevant depending on the situation. On this site we might talk the talk, but in the woods its a different ball game, you and I know this as do most guys who hunt a lot.

dunno. Seriously. Some days you don't want to be a pop can at 30 yards. Some days I got the groove. Other days, anything over 15 yards is safe :)

I dunno my effective range - it varies. How can I say that ? When I whitetail hunt - stand hunt - I try to pre-mark my 20 yards ranges. Why ? Because I practice most at around 20 yards in my backyard. Remember, when I've been in a stand for 3 cold hours, a big buck starts coming in .... am I going to really, REALLY setlle down and let my mind calculate the difference between 17 and 26 yards ? Sometimes yes, other times ... no. Actually my biggest problem it seems is tunnel vision ... too MUCH concentration that I ignore limbs that are between me and the point of focus. Anyway, if I can have that 20 yard reference I think it helps, if nothing more than just mentally.

I shoot a lot - do I the confidence to put the arrows where I want them to go ? yes and no. Confident enough to let 'em fly, but I know I'm realist enough to know that I'll miss too.

Now, lets also take into consideration this. I KNOW if I picked up a tuned compounds I would not miss at 20 yards - ever. I cannot say that about my longbow. Seriously, theres few reasons to not keep 4-6" groups with a compound at 20 yards and I'd dare say 25-30 yards. They're that good with minimal practice.

Knowing this ... knowing I can shoot BETTER with a compound .... am I unethical not to use one ?


AK - what is confidence ? I know one guy who hasn't killed a deer in 8 seasons of trad hunting. He's missed a bunch, never killed. He goes into every season confident ... but chokes . Why ? How's he different ? Is he TOO cautious on his shooting ?

Scenario - my Dad and him were turkey hunting. Mind you this guys been hunting all his life. A tom comes in , literally wears a path out around the decoy and as it starts off my Dad finally gets a shot and kills it. For 10 minutes this bird was strutting and circling that deopy on this guys side ... and he never shot. Why ? Said he as afraid the bird would see him. Me ? I'd have MADE something happen. Sure, might have got caught moving, but I aint sitting there with a tom at 20 yards and do nothing either !

Similar with deer hunting, is it not ? Do we all wait for the head down, 100% broadside, calm deer at exactly 20 steps shot ? What if a big bucks comes in, slowly walking, 27 steps, slightly quartering .... take the shot (feeling confident you can) or not ?

RE: Do we "owe" it to anything/anyone to be accurate shots ?
 

Absolutely not!
Like I said before , it's my opinion that we owe it to our sport to be proficient before we step in the woods with whatever weapon we choose!

Are we on the same page now?:eek::)