When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

Watching TOC this morning, the guy shoots a very nice 8pt, 130-140 class deer. He proceeds to say "I didn't get the trophy I was after, but this management buck will have to do".[:@]

Since when did a 130-140 class deer become a management buck? THATS A FREAKING TROPHY IS MOST AREAS OF THIS COUNTRY>

I think we hunters are getting too obsessed with bone these days. Unless you happen to live in Kansas, Iowa, Wisconsic, etc, odd are you will never see a deer over 160 in you life, much less actually harvest him. These pukes making all these videos on the fenced in ranches are slowly changing the perceptions of what a trophy deer is. Also, every hunt you see is in Iowa, Kansas, Wisconsin, IL, I feel it gives a lot of hunter a false sense of what they realisticly expect to see while hunting.

I remember when any buck was a "trophy" with a bow. Now, it seems if you don't make P&Y, you don't have a trophy.

Hunting mags and vidoes are doing to us hunters what the TV and fashion mags do to women, giving unrealistic expectations.

Don't get me wrong, I like killing nice bucks as much as the next guy. But, I wonder if I have set unrealistic goals for myself. I've let some really nice bucks walk, only to not fill a tag, waiting on what, may or may not even really be out there in my neck of woods.

Holler if ya here me............

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

"Also, every hunt you see is in Iowa, Kansas, Wisconsin, IL, I feel it gives a lot of hunter a false sense of what they realisticly expect to see while hunting."

They also give a false sense of what can realistically expect to be seen while hunting in Iowa, Kansas, Wisconsin, and IL. Ask the thousandss of hunters that flock to Pike County, IL every year and are disappointed to not find a B&C buck behind every tree.

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

The day that folks realized you could manufacture a trophy by feeding it special supplements, by letting it grow older and by importing "special deer" into the breeding herd to increase the genetic potential of the local population......;)

In other words, when it became all about money and fame.

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

I live in Wisconsin. There are many many places where a 130 deer is very uncommon. Those are also the places where "brown is down" and shooting a fork horn makes you a man. I'm very lucky to hunt in an area where the farmers/hunters are starting to say "I'm not shooting a little buck this year, I'll shoot a doe and let him grow". Thanks to that kind of attitude I have seen 130 -140 bucks several times last year two that had to be over 150, and a 158 was taken off of our hunting property by bow. If the attitude changes the deer will change as well. About 3-4 years with proper nutrition should grow a 130 class deer. If you can go with out shooting a buck for that long, as many of us have, you too can have nice bucks walking around. It sure is more fun to hunt now than 20 years ago where a 13" wide 8 was a big buck.
As for the TV shows, Who's going to watch guys go out in the woods to shoot a little dink? What fun is that?

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

I do agree with you about some of what is said here handles but why do they have to make it seem as if they aren't happy unless they bring home the "animal of a lifetime." They need to make it seem as if they are there just to experience hunting as a whole, not just the animal harvested.

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

It is a trophy in the vast majority of places, however in intensely managed ranches it's a cull buck. It's never going to be much bigger than that and they don't want it competing for food or passing on it's genetics. If you were managing a parcel of ground and you were trying to manage the buck to doe ratio, would you kill a 10 pt that scored 130 but had the potential to be a 170 or would you kill the 130 8 pt that had pretty much reached his potential. Those two extra points make all the differnce in the world in a deer's score. Do, I perfer to see the primos guys shoot a 130 on their lease near Pittsfield to a guy shooting a 160 at the Perlitz, sure I do. But the bottom line is big bucks sell. Some of these folks hunt hard and we just see the highlights. Others just go from ranch to ranch and shoot deer that the guides have already named.

I don't look at it that way. You have to have goals and if they can do it, you can too. At least you have to think that. If the area that you hunt doesn't hold the kind of deer that you are seeing killed on TV then you may have unrealistic expectations if you expect to kill one in your backyard. Most pragmatic hunters, like myself, realize that while trophy class bucks do come out of the area that I live in, they are hard to come by. Therefore, I travel to areas that will statistically give me a better chance of killing a big one. However, I realize that I will still have to work just as hard to fulfill my expectations and it may still take a while. I have also hunted long enough to know that they don't just come in and surrender no matter where you hunt. That being said, the 3 L's of marketing (Location, Location, Location) is still the most important factor to success. IMO. Watching the TV shows doesn't give me unrealistic expectations. It just makes the drive grow stronger inside of me to kill big deer and to hunt the areas that increase my chances of killing one.

Anyone that goes anywhere and expects to see a deer much less a B & C behind every tree, deserves to be disappointed.

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

Silentassassin, I understand and agree with everything you posted, but I still get sick and tired of the "management buck" garbage. So if I'm managing for a 200 class 12 pt, then every 5 year old 170 class 10 pt is a management buck. Where does the madness end.

Yes, they pull out 160's and up out of my area every year, but I don't expect to get one, they are very rare. And like you, I hunt places like IL, to increase my odds of a trophy, but I'm still sick and tired of this management buck bs. And truth be known, the ONLY people who use those tactics are hunting fenced deer, where you can control every variable. It's like these a$$holes are to "good" to actually try to hunt a 140 class 8pt, afterall, management bucks are stupid and easy kill, right.

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

never have and never will hunt for horns. Can't eat them, little racks make good rattles, no point on hanging a deer on my wall to show everyone that i killed a big deer. Take a picture. what i show people when they walk into my house is a nice vension dinner. Sorry to the guys who hunt for big bucks and big buck alone is i affended you but i see no point in it. I understand why it would be cool to have one, but for me i rather have meat than horns.

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

I would


That very statement sums up exactly the attitude that has developed in a large number of hunters today..........and was a major point of the original post. I feel so bad for people that do not enjoy a hunt or harvest just because they didn't bag a wall hanger.

Hunting is so much more then big racks. I HATE when I see a young hunter clearly not happy with his deer because it isn't big enough [:@]..........who the hell teaches a kid that??

People have to get over this antler obsession because it is a dead end street in todays world. Already the records that have stood for decades are dropping like flies and soon there will be a new world record every year..........making the title all but meaningless. Science has thrown it's hat into the deer ring and people can make money off big bucks..........this combo will result in more and more big bucks until they are no longer the exception, but the rule. The true beauty of a trophy is how long and hard you have to work to get it...........and how few and far between your chances are. When it is no longer a big deal to have taken a 160 class buck.........everyone will want a 180......then 200........and so on until the genetic max of whitetails is reached and then what??

If a 130 class buck is a management buck today, in 5 years it will be a 150 class that is no longer good enough. This Antler race is stupid because the finish line is a dead end. Deer can only grow so big, the only challenge to science is how to get them that big as fast as possible to maximize profits. Once that bridge is crossed there is no where else to go. I guess the only bragging rights left will be how many huge deer you have killed.


I enjoy watching Ted Nugent........he is nuts but I have seen him shoot a lot of does and small bucks on his shows. Each and every one he gets just as excited as he does over a monster buck...........even if it is acting on his part, it delivers a very good message to children. Taking an animal is a great accomplishment and nothing should lesson that feeling........no matter what the head gear looks like.


As far as unrealistic expectations I totally agree that most hunters are unable or unwilling to realize the true potential of their local hunting areas. You have to put your time in and watch an area at different times of the year in different ways to get an idea of what it has to offer. If you cover lots of ground, and do lots of sitting, glassing, and spotlighting you will get a good idea of what is in that particular area.......you aren't gonna see them all, but you will see a good portion of the local herd and it will allow you to make a good guess as to what to expect come hunting season. If you see 30-40 bucks over a year and they are all in the spike-6pt range then I wouldn't set up shop and expect Goliath to trot on by.

The problem has a lot to do with people being lazy and just going in the woods after watching videos all summer and complaining that the deer are too small............when if they had done their homework they would already know that and could either accept it or go somewhere else that better suits their demands.

Know your local area and know your local hunters. If you hunt in a "brown it's down" kinda place then just decide if that is OK with you. If not, find another area that is better for you.

I can't afford to let a deer walk by where I hunt the majority of my time. That deer will just be taken by another hunter 90% of the time. I'm OK with this and me and my family have taken tons of deer out of those woods over the years. We enjoyed them all immensely. We even managed 2 big boys over those many seasons.

I think a trophy is a deer that stands out from the crowd. One that you can honestly say is uncommon for your area. If you see nothing but forks and small bucks all the time this could mean a good solid 8 pointer............if you see 140 class bucks a lot this could mean a 160 class would stand out.........whatever.........as long as it makes people go WOW!!! when they see him.

A day will come that a big buck no longer makes people say WOW!!! similar to the way they treated that 130 class buck in the first post. At that point what thrill will be left for antler chasers??


BTW........another thing that bugs me is when I see a guy on TV letting his little boy shoot a HUGE buck as his first deer...........he is not preparing that kid for a lifetime of hunting, he is preparing him for a lifetime of less fun when he has to "settle" for smaller bucks in the future. That's about as smart as letting him have his first experience with a woman be with Jenna Jameson.........just puts real life in a bad perspective [:o]

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

well said atlas

Its all about understanding what's reasonable in the area you hunt. One of my hunting spots I can expect to see lots of bucks, with a tiny percentage being big(nearing 120). Another spot I have has VERY very few deer, BUT, the deer you see could easily turn out to be a 140" buck.
I just can't believe how many guys get caught up in waiting for that big one that just doesn't exist. I feel bad for them.

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

If you have the amount of acreage where you feel you can pass on 140 class animals, wait until they grow up, and instead spend the majority of your hunting season pursuing true mature bucks, say 5.5 and 6.5 year old bucks you know are available in your area...if you are good enough.....why not wait?

On some property in the country a 2.5 year old 8-point is the true trophy for the neighborhood, and even more rare than some areas that hold several 3.5 year old 120-130 class animals. In some areas it is harder to come by a 2.5 year old 8-point, scoring 90-100, than it is to find a 4.5 year old on another property scoring 140-160....so who is actually "holding out".

Basically it's all relative, but if you own property, even small parcels, and practice intensive habitat management activities, it is truly possible to raise the bar of expectation anywhere a whitetail lives.

Hey, if a hunter can hold out for something bigger, and he or she is lucky enough to have larger bucks around....more power to them! I just wish I owned their property:)

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

NorthJeff and others, you are missing my point. I'm not knocking guys that pass bucks, I pass dozens every year. My problem is with these TV "pro" hunter pukes that kill a 140 class 8pt and then pass it off as "management" buck and aren't even excited about the kill. I don't give a sh!t where you live, a 140 class 8pt in a big buck, call it like it is, you didn't see that 170, but you took a hell of nice 140 class 8pt instead. Thats fine by me, but all this BS about "settling" for a 140 class deer is bs IMO.

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

:DShow me a 140 class 8 pointer and I'll manage him....Manage to put my broadhead through his chest cavity!:D

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

To answer your question, I would kill the first one that screwed up, and I would proud of my decision

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

This stuff burn's me up!!! and I place all the blame directly on the High fence people in my great state of Texas, they buy 1.5 year old deer that are sporting 130" racks and call them breeders. Are they pay ungodly amount of money for sperm in a test tube and pay $5000.00 for a breeder doe.Pretty soon we are going to see Cloned deer and if you have the money you'll sit down at a coffee table and pick out the buck you want from a family picture album, they will then load you up in truck and put you on that deer all guarenteed. When money is involved the human race will do anything to get more. I could say more but I won't

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

When you crossed the Texas state line , If they have a pencil tined buck or and 8 point that is 3 or more years old and its 140 inches or less , some rances consider it a management buck . Here in Florida most "trophy bucks" will get to about 120 inches , biger than that is very rare down here .

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

If you are in an area where you see 30-40 six pointers a day (as stated in an earlier post) then, no you probably won't see goliath. The main reason why you won't is that those 6pts. are only 1 1/2 years old. Let em grow one more year and they will probably be 15" 8's and 10's.
The only thing that I'm saying is that if you want bigger bucks, well, there is a simple way to get them. Self restraint. It starts with you. Don't start with the "well the guy across my fence will shoot it if I don't" How do you know? Maybe that one buck will make it through the year. Maybe not. But it most definately will not make it another day if you shoot it .
If you like to eat meat, good, so do I. Nothing like a doe to fill the freezer. If you want to shoot a little buck. Go ahead, don't complain about some one else not being satisfied with a similar buck. I've shot my share of little ones. Shooting another would not be much fun for me. If you are in an area where you have no other choice...take your shot if you get it.
If you don't like watching big bucks get shot as management bucks. Don't watch. I turn off the TV anytime I see hunting in Texas from a tower stand shooting down a Sendero. I don't enjoy it, so I don't watch. I do enjoy watching a bow hunt from an ordinary midwest farm that due to self restraint by the people that hunt the land they have produced some very quality bucks.

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

These are my three management bucks for this year.( I managed to get within shooting range and I managed 3 good shots.)
I wonder why those huntin shows never comes to Florida?[&:]

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

Because many of us have been hunting the same woods for many years and see the same type deer taken every year. What you are suggesting is to pass on deer and let other people shoot them in hopes that one will slip through the cracks and you will see him next year??.........First of all making it through one year is hard enough for these bucks, but if you think that one will survive to be 5 1/2 to 6 1/2??? LOL Good luck. You also are mentioning "the guy across the fence".........try the 50 guys putting on constant drives for 3 weeks.........and the other 50 posted up ready to shoot. Deer still manage to slip through even those gauntlets.......my brother killed a big 8 pointer there and I killed a 13 pointer last year in different woods though.

We accept it for what it is..........taking a deer is good........taking a buck is a nice bonus.........and getting a shot at a bruiser is very rare. We really don't care that much.............not saying we don't appreciate a good buck, we just don't get upset if we don't see one.

We have other places that we go and the chance of a big deer is better and we enjoy that as well.

We just enjoy hunting together..........I treasure those memories much more then any of the horns on my walls. The meat is much more precious to me and my family then head gear.

They all look the same on the grill.

Don't get me wrong..........I love seeing big bucks.......I am just not obsessed with it.





Maybe that one buck will make it through the year. Maybe not. But it most definately will not make it another day if you shoot it .
If you like to eat meat, good, so do I. Nothing like a doe to fill the freezer. If you want to shoot a little buck. Go ahead, don't complain about some one else not being satisfied with a similar buck. I've shot my share of little ones. Shooting another would not be much fun for me. If you are in an area where you have no other choice...take your shot if you get it.
If you don't like watching big bucks get shot as management bucks. Don't watch. I turn off the TV anytime I see hunting in Texas from a tower stand shooting down a Sendero. I don't enjoy it, so I don't watch. I do enjoy watching a bow hunt from an ordinary midwest farm that due to self restraint by the people that hunt the land they have produced some very quality bucks.
[/quote]

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

Handles

You hit it right on, but i do like to hunt in texas, this is the new generation of hunting, every track of land around me trophy hunts only, my good friend killed a 145 7/8 inch eight point was fairly happy as he sawed the horns off, different strokes for diff. folks, i say you should be happy no matter what you kill but the tv shows do ruin it for alot of folks.

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

I think with all the land mangament and the new food plots etc. out there, bucks have become so much bigger and easier to find....except for me;). So on a tv show when they don't find the biggest buck in the area, they "have to do" with the 8 or 10 pt.

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

He said that because if you had paid the $5,000.00 dollars he just did, you may feel entitled to a deer that makes your jealous friends and neighbors go "OOOOWWWW" a little louder.

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

How come die hard brown its downers are always the first and most long winded when it comes to Trophy Hunting???


......LOL........some of you guys just crack me up:D

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

Edited. I will assume double is correct.;)

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

Silent, I think Rack was referring to a certain WB loving, touting, defending brown its down fellow board member. Starts with A and ends with N. :D:D:D[8D]

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

I agree. I got sick and tired of turning on the TV on Sat. and Sun mornings to only see managed hunts in areas where most people can't afford to hunt. That's why we started HuntingFootage.com for us average Joes to show off our REAL hunts.

Darren

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

My personal opinion is that it is a good thing that there are hunters only interested in high scoring bucks. There will always be guys that just want a deer for the meat and always guys out for a trophy. As more and more guys pass up smaller bucks they provide more opportunities for the meat hunters. What I truly don't understand is the " meat hunters" that pass up the does and than shoot a young buck. If you have no use for the horns why not take a doe? Either way I am not upset when a hunter plays by the rules and regulations. I am happy when I hear of guys passing on 140 class deer. Only a fool would let others change their perception of what is a trophy in their own minds...........dabow

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

as bad as it sounds, they '' as in outfitters'' use this term"management buck" for a fine!
i don't understand how a 140'' deer is a management buck!
atleast that is what the guys at tamarac outfitters called it.

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

Silent - I didn't get to see your post but I asume it was...................well[>:];)

I agree with your first post 100%

DC - what cha doing to me Mr. detective - now this post will drag on for 5 days.......I better get my "quote" finger ready:D


When a hunter or group of hunters have the land, the genetics, the time and the dedication to shoot what they see fit to shoot. Its not me now - but if the oportunity comes about - it might very well be.

What they, you, him, she, the tv shoots and regards a trophy should have no effect on what is a trophy to you or me. I don't feel sorry for guys who shoot bigger bucks or smaller bucks than me, or if they only shoot does or eat tag soup.

At what point in time did a meat hunter come up with the idea that a "trophy hunter" is miserable or unsatisfied when he does not shoot the biggest buck in the woods or the one he was after? And at what time was it decided that after a guy shoots a 160" that next years 130" is not just as much as a trophy?

Edit: After a good hot dinner I ahve become complacent, I will leave it at that:D;)

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

Rack,

It wasn't dramatic. I just asked if you were talking to me and if you were, to specify next time. Double pointed out that weren't talking to me so I didn't want to make something out of nothing so I edited. :D

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

Just keeping you honest Rack :D

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

hmmm

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

Maybe because some of us have opinions based on well thought out facts and experience...............not arrogance and a desire to put a label on everyone who doesn't hunt like they do.

Your condescending use of the label "Brown and downer" not only shows both your ignorance and arrogance............but also that you consider that term derogatory.......big surprise.

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

What the hell does liking a WB rest have to do with anything?? Yea, I'm the only guy out there that likes that rest right?? :eek:


The funniest thing of all is that you two use the term "brown it's down" as an insult...........yet piss and moan like a kid whenever someone even uses the word trophy.


Look up hypocrisy in the dictionary and see if it rings a bell.


Where did anyone in this thread say anything bad about trophy hunters??


The main point of many posters here is that like it or not the media does influence attitudes of hunters out there today............especially young ones. When a 130-140 class buck is taken and the hunter seems almost disappointed that he had to settle for a management buck it paints an unrealistic picture for the viewers/readers and makes what they get to do on fall weekends seem trivial.

No one is questioning your skills, or your work ethic, or how much better you are then all the rest of us slob brown and downers. We all know how great you are............because you tell us every chance you get.

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

Atlasman, I was just poking fun with you, no offense meant. :D

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

That is fine when done in private.............but when you portray this image out in the media you are now forcing your personal beliefs on others as the "right" way to do it.

What a surprise that you included "time and dedication" in your description............we know Rack, we know.............you work harder and are more dedicated then everyone else combined. No need to tell us another 100 times.


It shouldn't but it does............people in general are very influencial........target marketing is proof of that. When all you see on TV and in print tells you the same thing many people will start to believe it. In the end it isn't even about big bucks deer..........it's about big bucks money. The more they can convince people that the only reason they are not killing freakzilla is they need more gadgets and better equipment..........the more people will consume. Cha-Ching.



the same time you decided that every meat hunter sits in his stand and wishes they were you.



When you see people talking like they had to "settle" for the smaller management 130". This was covered in the first post. Why else would someone show less enthusiasm over a harvest unless they really wanted something "better"



Do you even eat venison??

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

Hey Atlassman - give it up man.........LOL

I can't even get mad anymore:D

Me done - :eek:

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

Not trying to make you mad...........just pointing out the obvious.

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

where i hunt a 140" class buck is a gift.

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

Reading through this post, I'm with you, Double Creek. I think a guy who stands over any deer he's killed, and feels the need to denigrate it, or trump up fake excitement probably needs to find a new hobby. I consider myself an aspiring trophy hunter, having killed some nice bucks in recent years, but I completely agree that we can create the optimal, genetically superior, robobuck to kill, and suck the very soul out of hunting in the process. Hunting should be about meat in the freezer, and if you've got time on your hands to play around at trophy hunting in the process, great!