which is blurry, deer or pin?
02-17-2004, 11:36 AM
#11
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Texarkana AR USA
Posts: 423
RE: which is blurry, deer or pin?
Shooting a rifle with iron sights....you focus on the front sight....pistol is the same way. Anyone taught to shoot the right way, was taught to shoot in this manner......
Not sure what I do with my bow........might have to go shoot it and see.....
Not sure what I do with my bow........might have to go shoot it and see.....
02-17-2004, 01:10 PM
#13
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Virginia
Posts: 156
RE: which is blurry, deer or pin?
What I've learned, read, heard, and believe is that you docus intently on your target and your pin draws to that spot. It matters not to me if the pin is blurry. Pick a spot and burn a hole in it with your eyes. Your pin should be right on top of that spot. I don't know about targets with firearms. I always look at the target with my shotgun.
02-17-2004, 02:03 PM
#14
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 590
RE: which is blurry, deer or pin?
Confirming what others have said about marksmanship training, you are always taught to focus on your sight pin. That said, when I took up bowhunting I read everything I could and it seemed like all the bow guys cut opposite this rule. So, I started letting the pin blur and focused on the target. However, this year, I am returning to the sight pin focus technique, and am finding it to be a great cure for target panic.
02-17-2004, 02:49 PM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Memphis TN USA
Posts: 3,445
RE: which is blurry, deer or pin?
That's is strange dirt. For most people it increases the likelyhood of target panic because their is more perceived pin movement. I am glad it is working for you though!
02-17-2004, 08:00 PM
#16
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 801
RE: which is blurry, deer or pin?
I hear what you are saying silentassassin. There is no hard and fast rule for everyone.
I will say that all of the shooters I know who shoot 300's indoors and near perfect on the 3d range, concentrate on their site while releasing their arrow. I'll throw it out there for people who are looking to try something to tighten groups even better than what they are shooting now.
Silentassassin, I feel the main reason most of the archery marksmanship material does not state to concentrate in the site pin is that there are many different styles of shooting archery. For those shooting without sites and shooting instinctively the target must be your focus. For archers choosing to use a pin and forego a rear aperture the concentration on the site pin will also not be the right option. But for archers choosing to employee a front site pin and a rear site aperture I would argue that the most accurate method is the front site focus method.
For those looking to take their shooting to the next level, I suggest trying the technique. It can be tough to master for some people as they really want to look at the target, and the tendency to want to "peek" can cause a stray arrow. Some people may even have to adjust their sites to true center. All the professional shooters I know use it though.
I will say that all of the shooters I know who shoot 300's indoors and near perfect on the 3d range, concentrate on their site while releasing their arrow. I'll throw it out there for people who are looking to try something to tighten groups even better than what they are shooting now.
Silentassassin, I feel the main reason most of the archery marksmanship material does not state to concentrate in the site pin is that there are many different styles of shooting archery. For those shooting without sites and shooting instinctively the target must be your focus. For archers choosing to use a pin and forego a rear aperture the concentration on the site pin will also not be the right option. But for archers choosing to employee a front site pin and a rear site aperture I would argue that the most accurate method is the front site focus method.
For those looking to take their shooting to the next level, I suggest trying the technique. It can be tough to master for some people as they really want to look at the target, and the tendency to want to "peek" can cause a stray arrow. Some people may even have to adjust their sites to true center. All the professional shooters I know use it though.
02-18-2004, 01:05 AM
#17
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,862
RE: which is blurry, deer or pin?
As a former target and match shooter with a rifle and handgun for a consolidated 31 years, I lived with and dreamt of a correct "sight picture." Still, I readily concur that sighting with a bow sight can be either to focus on the point of aim, or to focus on the pin. The (bow) sighting method of choice is an individual preference and is totally dependant upon which method works best for the individual.
However, in order for the individual to choose wisely, and know that he or she is using the best (bow) sighting method for him or her, he or she should know the pros and cons of each method.
As for the "overwhelming majority" of best shooters and top coaches recommending to focus on the POA, not the sight; and that "..top shooters and coaches teach and shoot that way," I would have to see specific and reliable data to accept that as a fact. I know of Olympic-level shooters and record breakers and holders that suggest the opposite, and say that most good archery coaches recommend focusing on the sight. Flip a coin!
As for me; I am a switch-hitter, the method used being dictated by lighting and weather conditions at the moment of shooting.
However, in order for the individual to choose wisely, and know that he or she is using the best (bow) sighting method for him or her, he or she should know the pros and cons of each method.
As for the "overwhelming majority" of best shooters and top coaches recommending to focus on the POA, not the sight; and that "..top shooters and coaches teach and shoot that way," I would have to see specific and reliable data to accept that as a fact. I know of Olympic-level shooters and record breakers and holders that suggest the opposite, and say that most good archery coaches recommend focusing on the sight. Flip a coin!
As for me; I am a switch-hitter, the method used being dictated by lighting and weather conditions at the moment of shooting.
02-18-2004, 04:18 AM
#19
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cheverly MD USA
Posts: 24
RE: which is blurry, deer or pin?
Wow! You guys and this site are a godsend. I know you don't all agree, but nowhere else could a beginner find such a wealth of experience and opinion. Thanks. 
Seems to me there's three ways to shoot at something:
1. instinctive method, e.g. stickbow, shotgun for fast moving targets (birds/clays)
2. front sight focus, e.g. target rifle/handgun, shotgun for stationary targets, "combat" shooting
3. target focus, e.g. when using a scope
I think of the difference between #2 and #3 as the difference between the goals of an infantryman/rifleman vs. a sniper. The former is trying to put rounds into a box roughly 2'x2' (the human torso), the latter is picking a spot. If we as bowhunters are in the "spot picking" business then it seems that target focus would be best? (Although with a scope the reticle is in focus over the target too; Double Creek's description seems closest to this.)
I guess that cyclone and c903 are closest to the mark (BAD pun
)! c903, can you post some more about "the pros and cons of each method"?
Best,
Jeff
Seems to me there's three ways to shoot at something:
1. instinctive method, e.g. stickbow, shotgun for fast moving targets (birds/clays)
2. front sight focus, e.g. target rifle/handgun, shotgun for stationary targets, "combat" shooting
3. target focus, e.g. when using a scope
I think of the difference between #2 and #3 as the difference between the goals of an infantryman/rifleman vs. a sniper. The former is trying to put rounds into a box roughly 2'x2' (the human torso), the latter is picking a spot. If we as bowhunters are in the "spot picking" business then it seems that target focus would be best? (Although with a scope the reticle is in focus over the target too; Double Creek's description seems closest to this.)
I guess that cyclone and c903 are closest to the mark (BAD pun
)! c903, can you post some more about "the pros and cons of each method"?Best,
Jeff
02-18-2004, 07:01 AM
#20
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 801
RE: which is blurry, deer or pin?
Mwether-
I think you have it backwards there in your analogy.
Target shooting vs. Combat Shooting.
If your goal is to hit an individual spot and consistently wreck arrows then try the front site focus method ie .. Target Shooting
If your goal is to group well in the "kill zone" you can try the target focus method ie.. Combat shooting.
You confused me with your reference to shooting with a scope, which is completely different then any form of archery focus.
They definitely both work! My point is that while deer hutning you are getting only 1 shot .. and you should know exactly where that 1 shot should go. How you get to that point, is a matter of personal preference.
I think you have it backwards there in your analogy.
Target shooting vs. Combat Shooting.
If your goal is to hit an individual spot and consistently wreck arrows then try the front site focus method ie .. Target Shooting
If your goal is to group well in the "kill zone" you can try the target focus method ie.. Combat shooting.
You confused me with your reference to shooting with a scope, which is completely different then any form of archery focus.
They definitely both work! My point is that while deer hutning you are getting only 1 shot .. and you should know exactly where that 1 shot should go. How you get to that point, is a matter of personal preference.