what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

how many people have had success with mechanicals? i personally have shot 5 deer, 3 bucks and 2 does and a fox with rocket sidewinders. most of the shots have been out of a tree stand about 20+ feet up. i have lost 2 deer while shooting these broadheads but it was because of one that hit way low(in the white) and the other hit wa a real bad angle that i should not have shot. not all the deer that i got were great shots either. the first buck i hit in the spine and the whole broadhead went into the spine just like the pics of the muzzy's in the backbone and the arrow broken when the deer flipped over on it. the first doe, it went perfectly double lung and she didn't even know what hit her. the next buck i shot arrow was a little far back and hit the front of the stomach but exited the other lung. the next doe, i hit way far back and gut shot her but the arrow passed through her back leg too right under the knee and she fell in 30 yards. the last buck i shot, the arrow was a little high on the entry hole but the angle was going down and the broadhead went straight through the shoulder blade and was sticking out the other side. so if people dislike mechanicals so much, then how have i had much success with them. i am a rocket sidewinder guy for life!

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

Oh man Legacy - are you trying to get the mechanical vs fix fight going again?:D

Anyway - i think it's more of an issue of shot placement, what equipment you are comfortable/confident with, and finally being able to tune your bow.

Personally I love the Rocket Sidewinders, I think they are one of the better mechanicals on the market. That being said, I also carry a muzzy or two in my quiver.

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

rocket man here too

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

I currently shoot mechanical exclusively and have never had a problem because of them. However, to answer your question, the dislike is because many folks assume that you do not need to tune a bow as well when you shoot mechanicals because they fly with field point accuracy. Totally not true and actually just the opposite. The bow has to be even more accurately tuned otherwise you waste precious KE which is needed to get mechs. to function properly....which is the second reason for the dislike. Many folks buy 1.5 to 2 inch conventional style mech. heads and expect to get excellent performance when their KE levels are way below what most folks considerable acceptable for mech. use.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

Because they are mechanical.

With me, it is more of a distrust than a [/i]dislike.[/i] Anything that is mechanical (performance and reliability dependent upon moving parts) has a greater propensity to fail. That is a given. Being that the broadhead has the final say, I prefer that it be as reliable as possible.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

In the beginning God created crappola... and he called it the Mechanical.[>:] BUTTTTT..... they've gotten a lot better.:D I think the dislike is a lot of hold over from the early models. Also, a lot of people go to them because they're either lazy or don't know how to get a bow tuned so it will shoot fixed. At least that's the perception of some. I think the main reason for distain is that they steal energy and don't perform as well as a fixed on bone etc. But then, replacement blades have their shortcomings to. There seems to have been a disproportionate number of woundings and lost animals with mechanicals. A lot of that has to do with shot selection and placement. Also, people try to push the envelope and use them with marginal setups or below exceptable setups... therein we have more penetration problems with them. They are better and do work well if you're selective and do your homework. Me, I don't trust them.... but that's just me. My hunting partner whacks the heck out of deer with them. He has used several models with success. Still there are people that hate them simply because(as someone said) "they're mechanical". To each his own. If you decide to use them... do it wisely with enough K.E. to make them work.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

I have been wary of trying mechanicals. I don't know my exact arrow weigh or the exact lbs pull on my bow or the speed of my arrow. I haven't been able to find a pro shop in my area. I bought my bow from E-bay and set it up myself. I don't know anyone that bow hunts and have learned everything I know about archery from the people on this forum. Ya'll must be pretty good because I got my first bow kill this year and this was my first season bow hunting.I don't think I would be compfortable shooting mechanicals because there is just one more thing that can mess up.My broad heads shoot right with my feild tips, and I only will take a broadside or quartering away shot at no more than twenty five yards. My setup would probably handle mechanicals because I shoot one pin from 10-25ft and can put all my arrows inside a three inch circle.The buck I shot this year I used a 100 Gr. thee blade muzzy and it only went twenty yards.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

What is the dislike you ask???
Lack of K.E.
Lack of Tuning
Lack of making a fatal hit(poor shot placement)
Lack of education!!!
Can you tell I like my mech. heads???

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

I'm staying out of this one.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

Couldn't have said it better.

....and this:

Well, what's the point then?



A few years ago, I got on the mechanical kick. Bad mistake. It didn't open on contact. Something went wrong with my mechanical broadhead. Why? Because it was mechanical. Anything mechanical has an inherrant nature of breaking down. Not to mention, I rarely take a shot more than 20 yards so what's the advantage of shooting a mechanical? None to me. Thunderheads are deadly accurate at 20 yards and wow do they blast through a deer.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

Is it just me or isn't a bow a mechanical device.Isn't a rest a mechanical device.Isn't a release a mechanical device.Heck,a rifle is a mehanical device.If these things fail they can kill the person behind it.A bow could fail and hurt the person behind it really bad and send an arrow of course causing a bad hit.If we look hard enough we can find enough reasons to just stay home and watch t.v. instead of getting out and doing what we love.




That isn't getting it in my book.Like anything else,it has to be a QUALITY product with a good reputation to be used by me.It must also test well.


We really need to get passed this because good mechanicals are as dependable as good fixed,if not more so.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

I have to pipe in I guess. I am not disputing the fact that mechanicals are effective on deer. Because I believe that they are. My point is that, even when hunting deer, I want the optimum in penetration. I will always use a fixed for this reason. Kinetic energy IS desolved in the opening the blades. This is the main reason people use the mechanical blades for turkey so that the arrow will not penetrate through. The issue here is how much is enough. Yes the mechanicals are enough to kill a deer but I want to be sure that I have the ulimate in penetration. The pic, that was posted on another forum showed me that I was correct in my thinking. there was alot of extenal damage to the doe on the ground. Obviously there was enough internal damage to kill the deer. The external wound however showed me that there was alot of energy lost ripping the gash in the side of the deer. I personally would like that energy to be pushing through the vitals or bone if it is a marginal shot. I am not taking sides, as I prefer not to. I am just stating my observations and my opinion for what it is worth. Larger cutting diameters and will destroy more area, at the same time will also eat up more energy. It also takes energy to cut a bigger hole ,or to open blades. The smaller the area cut, the less energy needed.Opening blades= KE dissolved. This shows me that this is what I stated. How much is enough. This to me all boils down to proper shot placement and arrow speed. I will not argue that Good mechanicals are effective on deer however I will always beleive that a fixed head will out penetrate a mechanical shot out of the same bow at the same speeds in the same conditions. The mechanicals do have better flight characteristics than do the fixed. Lets face it. There is less suface area to catch the wind. However if the shots are kept within traditional hunting yardages. There won't be enough to make a difference to a skilled archer with properly tuned gear. Everyone has made a good argument one way or the other. But we have to remember that we are all hunting with different gear, shooting at different speeds, wind conditions and are all at different points of our archery career. If the mechanicals work for you, use them. If the fixed work for you ,use them. But lets not keep bringing this up. Just make sure that whatever you choose to use. Put some thought into it first and know your equipment. Make sure that when you release that arrow that you have done all you can do to insure a quick clean kill.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

"We really need to get passed this because good mechanicals are as dependable as good fixed,if not more so."

Can't be! Why? Because there are several important do and do not conditions that must be met when shooting a mechanical to avoid a malfunction and/or malperformance, conditions that a fixed blade does not have to meet.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

TFOX, I really cannot believe you actually said that!!!

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

A mechanical broadhead only has to fail one time and an animal can be lost, wounded, etc. I'll use what's been working....cut-on-contact broadheads that are shaving sharp.

If someone else wants to use mechanicals, fine....have at it. They're not for me!

Good hunting, Bowhunter57

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

I belive that every hunter should use what ever they feel is best for them.
Both have advantages & disadavantages.
I have used both.
Just let me say that most but not all mechanical broads that fail that I have personaly seen are people that are speed freaks shooting light weight arrows at high speeds so there is almost no KE at the far end.
Fact: It takes more KE for a mechanical to pass thru than a open head.
Fact: You should not use a mechanical head if you dought it will work with your set up as you will never trust it to work.
Fact: most but not all mechanical broad manufactures suggest an arrow weight of at least 485gr with broad head & a bow drawing at least 55 lb.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

I used a mechanical once. I shot a buck at 6 yards with a 400 gr arrow going 265 fps. I hit it square in the middle of the ribs and did not get a pass through. I got the deer, but lost all confidence in them. Some mechanicals may be great, but I will never find out. My own personal experience has given me 100% success with fixed blade heads and what I consider poor performance by the one mechanical I used. Whether mechanicals are good or not, doesn't matter to me. From now on I'm using what has worked great for me in the past. Besides, I've never had trouble getting any fixed blade head to fly like they should.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

I've only been shooting for the last 2 years so be kind. Does anybody have any type of data showing how much more KE is required with mech's? I see people complain about other stuff slowing arrows down and they are usually talking about a couple of fps which doesn't seem like enough to be the deciding factor. Also, if the mechs are so hard to open, why do they even bother with the o-rings on some of them? I have some mech's that if I hand push them into my target block they open up. I haven't shot long enough to be a good judge, but so far I like them and I have seen a lot of guys on here who have taken some really nice deer with mech's. It seems like the bottom line always comes back to use the equipment you are comfortable with, properly set up with, and most important - take a good, ethical shot.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

I believe the industry recognize(most often quoted KE) is 55 foot pounds... but I think that's almost pushing it if you shoot more than 25 yards or so. I would think if you had 60 you'd be good to go with proper placement. I said my buddy has killed a bunch with mechanicals... but he's pushing close to 80 foot pounds.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

davidmil, can you tell me approx. what KE I'm shooting? I shoot a Pearson Anaconda 67# 29"draw using Easton 2413 Superlite XX78 Super Slams Select with 100gr heads. The arrow length is 29 7/8" from head insert to nock valley. I don't know if it matters, but the bow is a single cam, 36"ATA. I have no idea how fast the bow is shooting. The manufact. says IBO is 310 but I have read someone got more like 270-275. Is this enought info? Thanks.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

I just like my blades already being open. Plus, nobody, I mean nobody makes the perfect shot all the time. Thats when I feel a good fixed blade head has an advantage.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

The dependability statement was merely a referece to the accuracy of a mechanical over a fixed.If you hit where you want,then a good,quick kill is eminant.As I have stated many times,a mechanical is more accurate in ALL conditions.I am an accuracy freak and if I can't hit a 1" circle at 30yards
because of the eqipment,then I am dissatisfied with the equipment.I am not wanting something that shoots no better than a 3"-4" group at 30 yards.I want my equipment to be on so if I make a slight bobble I still make a good shot.If the wind picks up,then that 1" group is no longer possible or if you add a little torque to a bow then that broadhead takes over the flight and you will not make as good of a shot as if a mechanical were on the tip.I am not saying that I always shoot 1" groups at 30 yards but my equipment better be capable of doing it.



Yes speed is an important part of the equation,if you shoot a slow setup, then a broadhead may be as accurate as a mechanical in most conditions but as the speed increases,so does the criticalness of the setup.



Also,all fixed heads DO NOT penetrate better than all mechanicals.Some fixed are better than some mechanicals and some mechanicals are better than some fixed.Rocket Steelheads have been proven time and time again to be one of the best penetrating heads,if not the best of the 3 bladed heads,fixed or mechanical.The larger cut heads,fixed or mechanical should not be used by low ke setups,period.Mechanical doesn't really have anything to do with that.Other than the fact that it there are more large cut mechanicals than fixed.The reason for that is accuracy,it is next to impossible to get a 2" fixed head to fly well at any kind of speed for anykind of distance.



So if you like fixed heads then by all means use them,AS I DID THIS YEAR,but when someone ask me why I use or like mechanicals better,I will give an honest answer to the question.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

I'll take a sharp mechanical over a dull fixed any day , if I get to choose the model . I would not shoot puckets or hammerheads or buckblasters at deer , but the guys who have long draws and shoot heavyer poundages than me will have no problems with the last 2 I mentioned . I would not recomend puckets to anyone , very poor design .

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

[:o]Ever seen the hole a well place Mini-Blaster 75g puts in a Deer? For a short time(very short)this past season, I tried a fixed blade head. Worst mistake I've made in years! Use whatever you like, but my money is on Mini-Blasters.

To Each His Own!
J-bow;)

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

I post a article about mechanicals broadheads i think either in here or in the bowhunting gear last week if you want to read it. As for what i think about mechanicals. Honestly I haven't shot any yet but willing to give it a try (and when i find the ones i packed) when i go out looking for some rabbits.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

Last year I bought some mech's but never used them. I just didn't want to risk it. This year, I will be packing 125 Grain 3-Blade Muzzys and 125 grain Rocky MT Snypers with me.

As far as a mechanical being prone to failure, yes it may be, but not to the extent that alot of people push it to.

Guess what guys, fixed blade b-heads aren't perfect and yes, they can fail. How? Blades can break or pop out of the ferrule. If you are looking to get away from the possability of failure, then you have a VERY small selection of b-heads, like the Motec G5

Lets see, bows are prone to failure, releases are prone to failure, rests are prone to failure, treestands are prone to failure, ect. ect. ect....

Sometimes people worry too much. I am not saying that you should not worry about your equipments durability, but when you refuse to use anything that has the possability of failing, you are going to loose enjoyment and you are going to be missing out on alot of great products.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

Well said Buck.


Actually the only head I have ever had fail was a Thunderhead and most would agree they are excellent heads.It was mostly my fault because I cought shoulder blade but I have had Rockets make a passthru in very tough situations.



Shoot what you have confidence in.PERIOD.I shoot both but prefer Rockets.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

TFOX, I shoot a cut on inpact two bladed broadhead which is considered a fixed blade. There is absolutly no way ANY mechanical will out penetrate this head. I don't care what you say otherwise as far as accuracy. I can bang arrows with these broadheads at 30 yards. Will I take this shot. Almost definatly not. I have only lost one animal and that was in my first year of hunting. I have first hand experience at what a cut on impact two blade will do. I have seen elk shot from end to end with one. I like to shoot a 3 to 1 ratio. Meaning that the head is 1 in wide and 3 inches long. It is a flying spear and has no planing characteristics whatsoever. The tips hit exactly where my field points do. I think that you better do some homework before saying that mechs will out shoot ANY fixed blade. I am not against using mechs for deer however the statement that you made about outperforming ANY fixed head in any situation reguarding accuracy is totaly false.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

This past season was my first season ever using fixed heads. The past 4 previous I have used rocket steelhead 100's. I got full passthroughs on every deer I every flung a steelhead at....but the blood trails sucked. I mean with a low exit would through the chest cavity...the hole was just too small.

Now that I have become more experienced with the aspects of tuning my bow I decided to step up to fixed heads. I shot two dear this year...an point that I shot with a 125 grain muzzy, and a doe that I shot with a 125 grain wasp sst. Both 1 3/16 inches in diameter. Talk about massive hemoraging and a quick trail. I'm pretty sure I'll be sticking with the wasps over the muzzy though. The wasps are twice as sharp, and the solid ferule, I feel anyways, makes them a little stronger. I have pancaked a muzzy and if there was any structural support down the middle other than the blades it wouldn't have compressed like it did. I just feel that big diameter fixed blade heads are the way to go.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

Switched to mechanicals (spitfire 100s) last year. Two of my buddies started shooting the same heads this year after my sucess last year. Between the three of us, we shot 13 deer this year, at different angles from 6 to 28 yds. All deer dropped in sight, except for one which was a bad shot, hit in the neck and missed the artery, but still dropped after 60 yds. Several of the deer were not hit "perfact", but from the size of the hole and amount of blood loss, luckily not a problem. The guy at my local archery shop suggests these heads to customers, and I've never heard anyone complain of their performance on deer. Just know your effective range and don't take low percentage shots.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

Elkcrazy


I posted the Rockets would out penetrate most 3 blade heads.


I also stated that speed is a major factor.I'll bet you are not shooting blazing speeds with those 2 bladers,not to mention you have a rather small cutting diameter so you will see better flight characteristics and penetration than a larger fixed.

I should have stated earlier that a mechanical will be more accurate when all conditions are taken into account.I went back an reread my earlier post and could see where someone might have misunderstood that I was saying a fixed head wouldn't be accurate.


I have done more homework than you can imagine and I will stand by my statements that it isn't possible for a fixed head above 7/8" to be as accurate in ALL CONDITIONS as a GOOD mechanical. Now look at that statement,nowhere did I say that fixed heads would not be accurate.I myself have a bow tuned to shoot the same groups with mechanical or fixed BUT when outside forces are applied,such as wind , torque,and/or speed,the mechanicals have a distinct advantage.


I am not trying to bash fixed in the same way most are trying to bash mechanicals,just posting their advantages and yes,they have advantages.Some more than others.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

TFOX, tell me one setup of legal draw weight that a fixed blade head absolutely will not work on. Then outline the parameters for what setups should NEVER use any mechanical, regardless of cutting diameter. Then outline what animals should NOT be hunted with mechanicals, because of their size and toughness.

When shot out of a well tuned bow, with adequate energy and good shot placement on medium size game, they can and do produce excellent results. Poorly tuned bow, inadequate energy, bad shot placement and we wind up with yet another 'mechanical broadhead failure' thread to argue about. Not so?

One of the two overriding faults of mechanical heads is that they require a certain level of energy to do their job. Too many people with too little energy are using mechanicals, mostly because they hear all the rave reviews about them, from guys that are generally using enough energy to down an 18-wheeler. The other fault is the inescapable fact that too many people are using them because they simply cannot get fixed blade heads to fly straight. As you yourself have repeatedly pointed out, a well tuned bow is even more critical with mechanicals than it is for fixed blade heads.

Penetration tests... We've covered this ground time and time again and now, once again, I feel compelled to point out that the penetration tests you and everyone else keep referring to are made on foam or other assorted artificial materials. I never have, and never will, agree that the results obtained from those 'tests' can - in any way, shape, form or fashion - accurately predict actual results on skin, flesh and bone. It's like saying that taking a capsule of vitamin E is good for you, so taking a capsule of cyanide will be good for you too. Things do not work that way.

Anyway, taking all things into consideration, it is flat impossible to say that mechanicals are just as good as, or better, then fixed blade heads. For well tuned setups that produce adequate energy, good accuracy and limited to deer size game, then maybe I couldn't disagree with that too much. I know what you're saying when you point out they shoot more accurately in windy conditons and such, but you should have qualified that comment when you made it instead of making it sound like a blanket endorsement.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

Here we go again! the same topic as before. fixed and mechs, I have agreed and disagreed on statements about mechs,the biggest question about mechanicals is penetration! bar none. Will they work and penetrat as well as fixed blade? and will they solve the problem many archers have with windplain from a fixed blade head.not all archers has the problems that we all have talked about! and can shot a fixed blade head just fine!for them great don`t change! not many archers would if they worked that good for them ether.I will agree that the energy of a bow makes a big diffrence when using mechs at least on some type`s i have used all kind of mech`s and fixed blade alike.And i will say there are junk fixed blades and mechanicals! on the market today. But there is a type of head on the market today that i found a while back and is my choice when using a mechanical head. it is name brand that in the past never gave much thought to. but they seems to be on the right track when talking about penitration and good arrow flight! it is GAMETRACKERS FISRTCUT EXP BROADHEAD! I would like any every one that can check out this head! It is a one inch fixed blade. that when entering it`s target will open two bleeder blades on the other side. this type head should get the vote`s of a fixed blade shooter as well as a mech shooter. after all it is both type`s in one! no matter if the blades don`t open the head will still get the job done! this broadhead has my vote!

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

If it's not broke,why fix it?I've killed over 30 deer in the last 4 years using NAP Spitfires and Shockwaves,90% have been total passthoughs.Actually,I'm disappointed when I don't get a passthough.Of course,shot placement is key,and I don't take "risky"shots.The NAP products have never failed to perform,and I keep my side of the bargain up by keeping my eqiupment in tune,making good clean shots,and driving a 413gr.arrow at 282fps...Bob

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

Each to their own. I dont dislike the mechanicals. I just dont see what the big hype is about them. Do they cut better than fixed blades?No. Do they fly better than fixed blades? Not if your bow is tuned properly. Is there greater chance of a malfunction with Mechs. Yes.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

THANK YOU, for specifying the arrow weight and speed you're getting and having good results with mechanicals, trestand. I wish everyone would do that.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

Good point, so let me clarify what I was trying to say: The more mechanical a set up is, the more chance it has of breaking down. Sure bows are mechanical, but why not keep things simple, especially the very thing that has the potential to kill or wound a deer. All the crap we can put all over our compounds these days is crazy. Most of this stuff was put on the market because companies know that bowhunters will buy it. That's why I love a recurve - stick and a string, and an arrow and broadhead.

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

To each his own obviously, but I'm not buying into that statement however you meant it. Maybe if you're talking about 40-50 yard shots, then I can see a slight advantage. But at normal bow range, inside 30 yards, mechanicals are not more accurate than fixed. I have proven this to myself. They have no advantage for accuracy at all. At 30 yards shooting out of a tree, I can put a mech or a fixed in an apple. With the same bow, nothing changed. Your pins are on or they aren't. You can shoot or you can't. JMO

RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
 

Arthur,I am stating I like mechanicals for the same reasons you like deflex risers.(As do I) but I prefer to hunt with a bow with moderate reflex because of my low poundage.I also couldn't agree with you more about energy and the amount needed but their are some that do as well as a 3 bladed fixed head.I can attest to that because of real world accounts,not test written in magazines,although I do agree with the tests results.MY KE IS USUALLY BETWEEN 56-58 FT/LB.



Badshotbob,

That is exactly what I am pointing out,if I have what I would call a good 40-50 yard shot,then I will take it and I can be completely confident in a Rocket Steelhead(notice I didn't say mechanical,not all are as good with penetration as these)being accurate.I can't have the same confidence in a fixed.Also when leaning out around a tree ,there is no doubt about torquing the bow,you will need a setup that will allow some forgiveness.A deflex riser and /or a heavy,slow arrow with plenty of helical feather on the back is one way to accomplish this.Another is by using a well tuned moderately reflexed bow of choice with a mechanical on the arrow.



I practice all of these scenarios and I can make a shot at 40 yards with my body pointing away at about 120 deg angle from the target on my knees with a mechanical but I can't make as good of a shot with a fixed.That is the type of forgiveness I am talking about.Extreme type situations.



I have said about everything I can and feel if you don't understand what I am saying by now,then you just won't get it untill you start trying some of the type shots that I do.You never know when you might be cought off guard in the woods and need to make a kneeling shot around a tree.You must first need to be skilled at the shot and secondly you must have confidence in your equipment.



I am climbing down off my soap box now, have a good day.;)