My answer to equipment debate!!!!!
 

If you don't make your own bow of yew or osage. And you don't make your own string from flax or hemp. And you don't make your own shafts from ash, maple, (or fill in the blank). And you don't knap your own arrowheads from flint or obsidian. THEN DON'T PREACH TO ME ABOUT EQUIPMENT!

You know what? We don't need to worry about organizations like PETA, Friends of Animals, "greens", etc.

WE ARE OUR OWN WORST ENEMIES.....AND TOO IGNORANT TO KNOW IT!

RE: My answer to equipment debate!!!!!
 

YEAH......I posted the same statement on the Crossbow thread! Because I thought it needed to be said TWICE!

RE: My answer to equipment debate!!!!!
 

I think someone hasn't had their second cup of coffee yet. ;):D

RE: My answer to equipment debate!!!!!
 

Everybody is entitled to an opinion, thank`s for sharing yours.;)

Of course, I disagree with you. What is the next weapon you would be OK with coming into archery season?


And, when you reply........YOU DON`T NEED TO YELL!:D

RE: My answer to equipment debate!!!!!
 

Actually.....probably had a "couple of cups" too many;)

RE: My answer to equipment debate!!!!!
 

Are you suggesting being an ostrich and putting your head in the ground and ignoring the continuing battles being found over crossbows ?

Debating issues is one of THE keys to knowing the issues thoroughly. Hide if you want, pretend everyone is unified and watch in open mouthed awe as it all crumbles down and the Anti's win. thats what trappers did in some states, its what bear hunters did in some states, dog hunters, mtn lion hunters etc etc.

RE: My answer to equipment debate!!!!!
 

You want to honestly know what bothers me most about this "argument".....(doesn't matter I'm telling you anyway). Other than it plays into the hands of "EVERY" organization that would love to see an end to sport hunting.....it sounds like the same old playground line of childhood....."but that ain't fair"?

To which my reply, for a very long time, has been, "Grow up and get over it"! Alot of s**t in life isn't fair. That's why it's "life"....not a fairytale. Someone's afraid they are going to "loose something" because someone else has an "unfair" advantage!

If we all spent as much time and energy "practicing our skills with whatever equipment we choose", and a like amount of energy "promoting the benefits" of hunting......as we do crying about someone else's choice of equipment....we might have a whole new generation of hunters. Instead of Nintendo weenies that think food "comes from plastic wrap".

Every time I hear this argument I want to "wretch and puke". It's about time people grow up and "get over it".....life isn't fair....never promised to be....DEAL WITH IT!

RE: My answer to equipment debate!!!!!
 

After listening to the demeanor of some in these threads.....

I almost wouldn't care if they allowed 155mm Howitzers.....

HAPPY NOW!

RE: My answer to equipment debate!!!!!
 

Here is one better. Solve the problem entirely.

End all season seperation by equipment! It's deer season...use your weapon of choice. (But it isn't fair putting bow against gun!) Then don't use the bow!

If the argument stands that one weapon type over another weapon type places more of a challenge to the sport....then BE CHALLENGED!

Don't ask for any special seasons! That is what happens when you pit one form of hunting against another. You end up pleasing nobody! If it is really the difference in skills you want to pit against another....than do it openly.

Special interest groups have been the ruination of this nation!

P.S. And for general info...I own neither a crossbow or a compound. I own two recurves and a longbow. So what?!? Makes no difference....the argument is asisnine!

RE: My answer to equipment debate!!!!!
 

No! What bothers me is that someone I respected, has returned, only to post to argue. I won't accuse of him of it officially, but since this person left this site a while back because of his disagreement over advertising, it seems to be his agenda.

RE: My answer to equipment debate!!!!!
 

Hi Cougar Mag,

Now, I'm the one that's "lost". Who has returned? If the suggestion is for another that has posted on this thread...and you do not feel like answering...please don't. But, if it's "me" we are talking about...please clarify!

Before I go too far with this I will state this emphatically. I have never been on this board by any other user name than akbound. So, if it is me we are talking about, please fill me in. Because on this point, I am lost.

If it's another....please accept my apology, (and excuse my ignorance).

Dave

P.S. Previous to today, I haven't even been to the Bowhunting Forum. But as an aside...I haven't been this fired up since Watch.....his name left!

RE: My answer to equipment debate!!!!!
 

:eek: Easy akbound. Mywife has been fighting Stage 3c ovarian cancer for the past 5 years. Life really is too short to be shortin out over crossbows etc.. Please try to lighten up, smell the roses and thank God for what you do have. Trust me, it makes life a whole lot more fun. Let me know if I can be of any help to you.

RE: My answer to equipment debate!!!!!
 

akbound..........no not you bud.

Now if you were arkbound.......then I might be inclined to think so. ;)

RE: My answer to equipment debate!!!!!
 

Hi jimpok61,

I am truly sorry to hear about your wife's condition...and extend my empathy. We lost a 21 year old son a little more than a year ago to a "botched surgery". So I sincerely do understand the value of not taking unimportant things too seriously!

I do not recall a post from you that I was responding to in any kind of a personal way. And I am not sure if you're implying I should relax for the sake of relaxing....or I have in someway offended you! Actually, I am fairly relaxed, if that is your concern. I can argue passionately without becoming an emotional wreck. And if I in some way, unknowing, personally offended you...then I apologize.

My intent on this thread was to make a statement I believe in. And that statement was simply this. Too many hunters today believe in protecting "their little piece of the pie"....at any and all expense. They believe that somehow only they are fit to judge where the "lines should be drawn", that the are "unequivocally correct", and that anyone with a difference of an opinion must be "unethical", "lazy", or in some way.....less of a hunter than they. And on the face of it....it's a crock!

The reason the states separated seasons by weapons was to increase revenue. They could have easily relegated areas to a weapons type "for safety reasons or conservation issues" if they chose. But they would rather have the additional revenue. And ever since then many people have "put their noses in the air" to show how "superior a hunter" they are. (And for many it is simply that they just refuse to share that piece of pie.)

My attitude towards all hunters is use what you want. Please just keep your nose on your own face! And don't be surprise when it comes back bruised if you "stuck it out too far"!

I don't call it elitism...I call it snobbery!

RE: My answer to equipment debate!!!!!
 

Hey Cougar Mag,

Thanks for the claification.....I was really at a loss for a few!

And to everybody on the site...this isn't a personal issue....unless you make it feel personal...because I'm not intending it that way. This is "an Issue", issue...that's all!

RE: My answer to equipment debate!!!!!
 

AKbound,

I hestitated all day about posting here besides what I already have about needing a second cup of coffee, but I guess I will because I'm confused.

How does arguing about whether allowing crossbows in the same season as traditional and compound bows help the anti's and PETA? It was primarily a discussion/argument deciding where they belong in the hunting seasons, not whether they can be used or not. It is akin to arguing on whether SUV's ought to be labeled in the same catagory as trucks or cars, or if tomatoes are a vegetable or fruit, etc. I don't see where it helps anti's or Peta at all. We're not arguing if they are ethical in the terms of what they do to an animal and if they do it quickly and humanely enough. Rather, the non-crossbow folks want to see it placed in a different season and the pro-crossbows are saying there is no real difference. I don't believe anyone would argue that they are easier to bag game with than a gun, but we aren't up in arms over gun hunters, just where they belong.

Just my two cents. By the way, I'm sure Peta has its own issues that cause them to argue, but we're not able to capitalize on them, because their central focus is still the same- just as ours are, despite which side of the fence we sit on regarding crossbows.

RE: My answer to equipment debate!!!!!
 

Hi by23856,

I don't know you personally so I will try not to become "closed minded" on this discussion. But the truth of the matter is...that most of the "hunters" I have known personally arguing against allowing crossbows are in fact snobs, or selfish of "their season". And that is the honest truth of the vast majority of those I have met!

But if the argument is about whether or not the crossbow is easier to use skillfully, with less practice, I plead guilty. It most certainly is! But exactly the same argument is true when referencing compounds and traditional equipment. The fact that one is drawn previously and mechanically held, and one is drawn to a significant let off and held manually (frequently with a mechanical release device and sights), and one is drawn entirely manually...held entirely manually....and released entirely manually.......is a "difference of degree". And that is the absolute difference. All arrows that are propelled from "any bow" use the mechanical energy that is stored in their limbs to propel said arrow. Is one of them easier to use skillfully....YES. Are two of them easier to use skillfully than the third....YES. Where is the "Great difference", (other than in the minds of the selfish)?

It makes no more sense to automatically exclude one over any of the others. And the only justification that exist where the rubber meets the road....is that some hunters are going to have "their feelings hurt" when the "cheater" in the bunch comes back with a bigger deer!

If we want to cut to the crux of the situation....eliminate all seasons based on weapons. Use what weapon you choose...and don't worry what the next hunter is using!

The "real disgusting truth", (dirty secret) of archery hunting is this. There are far more unskilled hunters in the woods than we as hunters should tolerate. (And yes the same is true about guns....but it is much easier for an ignorant, unpracticed, moron, to make a killing shot with a rifle....than it is with a bow.) I've seen it in the field myself, heard the "shop talk", and unfortunately personally know too many slobs in the woods with either. But bow hunters have at "least" their share. They are the problem this sport truly faces. The ones that scoff at the game laws. The ones that take shots beyond their skills. The ones that lack respect for the rights of property owners.

And what do we do? We argue about what "time of the month" we can use what weapon! You HAVE to break them into groups? Then how about this grouping?

-Chemical energy weapons (firearms)
-Mechanical energy weapons (bows)
-Human energy weapons (hand held and hand thrown)

Like I said, it's just a matter of degree!

And how does it help the anti's? Because we sit around all day, night, week, arguing amongst ourselves...instead of devising an effective counter to the anti's!

RE: My answer to equipment debate!!!!!
 

No offense:)akbound, and none taken here for sure. Very sorry about your boy. That would do it for me. I don't want to even think about outliving mine. I just thought you might need some help. I understand your strongly held opinion and understand that we should all try our best to accept other opinions and not end up preaching. Wish your family all the best this holiday season and know your boy has been added to my list.

RE: My answer to equipment debate!!!!!
 

I know when and if it came time.....all hunters, no matter what legal weapons they chose to use, would be united as one against anti-hunters. That makes us all strong!

RE: My answer to equipment debate!!!!!
 

LOL Cougar ! You crack me up. You won't "officially" accuse me of anything, but you'll be more than happy to "unofficially" do it ?

I have valid points that you and others cannot address. Thats the crux of the whole thing really. Its not about Stealthycat, its not about Zelazny nor game farms. I've been "back" for months and for over 650 post ... and you've not accused me of troublemaking/arguing for no reason yet have you ?

Which strongly indicates again that I have valid points that put you and others into a selfish, doubstandard, hypocritical light when discussion weapon types.

akbound - "grow up and get over it" never settled any legislation nor did it ever pass any laws. The discussions, believ eit or not, spills over into the states, regional and city levels of the public hunting community and how their voices are heard to their respective G&F.

jimpok61 - Damn man, I'm at a loss to respond to that .....

BTW - Ya'll use whatever you want to as long as its legal and ethical. I do not care, only when it directly affects hunting and the preservation of hunting SHOULD I care. IN those cases, like ARA's, stupid a$$ laws etc we as hunters, and as a group need to ban together. For the other times, hunt with whatever you want to. I will not stay silent though and see legal, archery weapons and their use bashed by compounders who are guilt of the very same measurements that they gauge crossbows by. Its hypocritical and a damn shame.

RE: My answer to equipment debate!!!!!
 

Hi jimpok61,

Thank you for condolences...and in advance for your prayers! (I do appreciate your concern. Honestly, I'm not quite tightly wound as I sound in my arguments!) I guess I come across fairly "staunchly" and I probably do. It is not intentionally done to be aggressive or agitate....I guess if I don't sound like I'm convinced...then I have no reason to believe that others would find it convincing.

But honestly, I harbor no "ill-will" towards anyone on this site. In spite of our differences...at heart, all ethical hunters are brothers. (Sometimes we just moementarily forget it!) You know...."heat of battle".....kind of thing.