Moral hunting dilemma
#1
My 3 year old daughter has always been exposed to my hunting and fishing and I thought that she enjoyed it as well.
I take her fishing and I also drive around the cornfields with her and show her deer, which she loves. She has eaten deer, pheasant, and dove on several occassions and (I believe) she understands what she is eating because we have talked about it and it was her choice to try it or not.
Out of the blue this weekend she looked at me with a very serious look and told me that it is not right to hurt the birds (pheasants) because it makes them bleed and they die. Man I about started crying right there on the spot. I tried to soothe her by explaining the cylce of life and how "the birds don't feel it" but stopped because I couldn't lie to her any longer. Of course the animals I kill feel it and yes they do bleed then die. In a child's eyes how can that ever be a good thing?
I guess I'm having a moral dilemma because I want my daughter to be able to enjoy the outdoors as much as I do, yet I don't want to scar her for life with nightmares of dying animals.
Have any of you experienced this with your children? And how did you proceed? My father did not hunt or fish so I was not exposed to this as a child.
Maybe this post doesn't belong in the bowhunting forum, but I wanted opinions from you guys, my bowhunting family.
I take her fishing and I also drive around the cornfields with her and show her deer, which she loves. She has eaten deer, pheasant, and dove on several occassions and (I believe) she understands what she is eating because we have talked about it and it was her choice to try it or not.
Out of the blue this weekend she looked at me with a very serious look and told me that it is not right to hurt the birds (pheasants) because it makes them bleed and they die. Man I about started crying right there on the spot. I tried to soothe her by explaining the cylce of life and how "the birds don't feel it" but stopped because I couldn't lie to her any longer. Of course the animals I kill feel it and yes they do bleed then die. In a child's eyes how can that ever be a good thing?
I guess I'm having a moral dilemma because I want my daughter to be able to enjoy the outdoors as much as I do, yet I don't want to scar her for life with nightmares of dying animals.
Have any of you experienced this with your children? And how did you proceed? My father did not hunt or fish so I was not exposed to this as a child.
Maybe this post doesn't belong in the bowhunting forum, but I wanted opinions from you guys, my bowhunting family.
#2
Dominant Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,199
Likes: 1
From: Blossvale, New York
HALCON... you got to really tread slowly here. My son grew up with Daddy hunting and bringing home lots of deer, rabbits, doves etc. He always wanted to go to the woods. I managed to fabricate some double ought buck shot into some 410 casings when he was 5. It patterned in a string about a foot long at 20 yards. I said if we got a deer at 20 or less he could shoot it. We never did. At age 6 I bought him a 243, chopped about 3 inches off the stock and fitted it with a scope. He was deadly at 100 yards. He killed his first deer at 6 and another nice one the next year. Pic attached.
Then one day it all went to heck. I was living in Georgia at the time. We had a lease that developed a major wild dog problem. The local pig farmer asked us to help as they were loosing a lot of young pigs to them. We went on a mission. I'd come home and say Bill got 2 dogs, I got a dog, Everett got two dogs etc. He heard all the stories of the guy chased back up his tree during bow season, another separated from his truck etc. My boy also just loved animals, but shot deer, shot doves and really enjoyed it. He'd blast away with the little 20 guage I bought him until he was black and blue.
So one day he and I are sitting in the family treehouse I had built for him to hunt from. It was in 4 pecan trees right in the middle of a soybean field. A doe hit the field really running scared and crossed about 100 yards from us. Just as she hit the far woodline 150 yards away a pack of 4 dogs running silent came through on her trail. I calmly said, Dixon.. I have to shoot. The first dog piled up. The other 3 scattered like quail. I hit one running straight at us and he tumbled but was dragging himself and yelping. I lined up on another and rolled him. I hit the last one going straight away at about 200 yards. I had two dogs yelping and howling and dragging themselves around. I was empty. It had been like flash backs of a firefight in Vietnam. I was cranking the bolt and follow dogs and shooting so fast I wasn't aware of what was going on. I turned to my son and said I need your gun and reached for it. He was on the floor of the elevated stand crying and sobbing "No more.. NO more... NO NOO" I was devistated. I had two dogs, one almost under the stand just howling and crying. I quickly finished them with the 243.
It took me 15 minutes to calm him down enough to help him from the stand. I walked him to the truck. We were suppose to dump the dogs at a central place as per the farmer. I drove out in the field and loaded the dogs in the back of the pick up. All the time my son is still sobbing a sob from time to time in the cab. As I started driving out of the field he looked back and went balistic. Even though lifeless when I loaded them, one of the dogs was up on his front feet with his head up. I had to stop, kick him from the truck and finish the job.
My son who loved to hunt, shoot deer, doves etc..... NEVER HUNTED AGAIN. He'll shoot once in a blue moon... but never hunt. Tread slowly my friend. Educate better than I did the virtues of why we hunt and the good we do for sustaining the species.
Then one day it all went to heck. I was living in Georgia at the time. We had a lease that developed a major wild dog problem. The local pig farmer asked us to help as they were loosing a lot of young pigs to them. We went on a mission. I'd come home and say Bill got 2 dogs, I got a dog, Everett got two dogs etc. He heard all the stories of the guy chased back up his tree during bow season, another separated from his truck etc. My boy also just loved animals, but shot deer, shot doves and really enjoyed it. He'd blast away with the little 20 guage I bought him until he was black and blue.
So one day he and I are sitting in the family treehouse I had built for him to hunt from. It was in 4 pecan trees right in the middle of a soybean field. A doe hit the field really running scared and crossed about 100 yards from us. Just as she hit the far woodline 150 yards away a pack of 4 dogs running silent came through on her trail. I calmly said, Dixon.. I have to shoot. The first dog piled up. The other 3 scattered like quail. I hit one running straight at us and he tumbled but was dragging himself and yelping. I lined up on another and rolled him. I hit the last one going straight away at about 200 yards. I had two dogs yelping and howling and dragging themselves around. I was empty. It had been like flash backs of a firefight in Vietnam. I was cranking the bolt and follow dogs and shooting so fast I wasn't aware of what was going on. I turned to my son and said I need your gun and reached for it. He was on the floor of the elevated stand crying and sobbing "No more.. NO more... NO NOO" I was devistated. I had two dogs, one almost under the stand just howling and crying. I quickly finished them with the 243.
It took me 15 minutes to calm him down enough to help him from the stand. I walked him to the truck. We were suppose to dump the dogs at a central place as per the farmer. I drove out in the field and loaded the dogs in the back of the pick up. All the time my son is still sobbing a sob from time to time in the cab. As I started driving out of the field he looked back and went balistic. Even though lifeless when I loaded them, one of the dogs was up on his front feet with his head up. I had to stop, kick him from the truck and finish the job.
My son who loved to hunt, shoot deer, doves etc..... NEVER HUNTED AGAIN. He'll shoot once in a blue moon... but never hunt. Tread slowly my friend. Educate better than I did the virtues of why we hunt and the good we do for sustaining the species.
#3
I'm sorry to hear your son was traumatized by that incident and never enjoyed hunting again. That is a sad story for sure!
My daughter always asks "Did you get the deer Daddy?" when I get home from hunting. I usually reply "No but I got to watch a lot of them sweetheart." And she used to comment on how beautiful the pheasants were. I guess last time she finally noticed the small drop of blood at the beak and remembered that image. Now when I leave she tells me "You can't go hurt the birds" instead.
I guess I'll have to keep her from seeing them until she is old enough to understand a little more. [&o] Sad.
My daughter always asks "Did you get the deer Daddy?" when I get home from hunting. I usually reply "No but I got to watch a lot of them sweetheart." And she used to comment on how beautiful the pheasants were. I guess last time she finally noticed the small drop of blood at the beak and remembered that image. Now when I leave she tells me "You can't go hurt the birds" instead.
I guess I'll have to keep her from seeing them until she is old enough to understand a little more. [&o] Sad.
#4
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: St. Mary county, Maryland
I think when it comes to introducing young ones to hunting it boils down to the maturity factor of the child. Some children simply mature faster than others and can understand and comprehend certain things better than others.
My 16 year old nephew liked it when I took him hunting but when it came to gutting out the deer the boy almost fainted on me. On the other hand my 12 year old son asked to gut and skin a deer with no problem at all.
I attribute the difference in the two boys on experiences and being slowly introduced into hunting and all the aspects involved with it. My nephew until this year has never seen a dead deer up close let alone seen one get shot. My son however has seen dead deer close up and has sat in a treestand next to mine while I have bow shot deer.
I guess what I am trying to say is as parents we all know our kids best. We can gauge thier reaction to hunting best and know when we are pushing them to hard into a sport that may not suit them. Take it slow with the kids guys and gals if they like it they will want to hunt with you, if they don't like it then it is not the end of the world.
I want my kids to be happy so if hunting is not in their future and that is what makes them happy then I am happy.
P.S on a side note, 16 days until xmas and my son gets his very first hunting compound bow with all the trimmings. He will be 12 in Feb. and will be joining me on next falls bowhunts.
Dave
My 16 year old nephew liked it when I took him hunting but when it came to gutting out the deer the boy almost fainted on me. On the other hand my 12 year old son asked to gut and skin a deer with no problem at all.
I attribute the difference in the two boys on experiences and being slowly introduced into hunting and all the aspects involved with it. My nephew until this year has never seen a dead deer up close let alone seen one get shot. My son however has seen dead deer close up and has sat in a treestand next to mine while I have bow shot deer.
I guess what I am trying to say is as parents we all know our kids best. We can gauge thier reaction to hunting best and know when we are pushing them to hard into a sport that may not suit them. Take it slow with the kids guys and gals if they like it they will want to hunt with you, if they don't like it then it is not the end of the world.
I want my kids to be happy so if hunting is not in their future and that is what makes them happy then I am happy.
P.S on a side note, 16 days until xmas and my son gets his very first hunting compound bow with all the trimmings. He will be 12 in Feb. and will be joining me on next falls bowhunts.
Dave
#5
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 249
Likes: 0
From: Oregon City Oregon USA
Explain to her that GOD has put the animals on earth for us to enjoy. Hunting and then harvesting one of these creatures is not a bad thing, and just one of the ways to utilize these wonderful resourses.
Tough situation though...
Tough situation though...
#6
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 259
Likes: 0
I guess I've never had to explain a thing to my three little ones...4, 7 and 8. The older two first memories are full of butchering hogs, chickens, rabbits and wild game. It's just the way it's always been. I go to huge efforts to not put human feelings and pain thresholds on game animals. I don't believe they have emotions or feel pain the same way we do. I don't try to sugar coat it when explaining to my nieces.
My oldest asked how animals that we get from the grocery store were raised and slaughtered. She is far more disgusted by that than Daddy putting an arrow or a bullet in something to eat. She likes the fact that wild animals get to live in freedom before we take them to eat.
In my experience with 3 yr. olds the ideas of pain and suffering are planted in their heads by teachers, mommy or daddy, or relatives. They rarely come up with it themselves, they usually don't have any life experiences to base it on.
My boy, 7, is deathly afraid of bears. It's become a real issue and causing him to loose sleep. The other night we watched American Archer on the Outdoor Channel. M.R. James and Dwight Schu and one other guy all killed good black bears on the show. My son was impressed you could do that with a bow and declared he was no longer aftraid..LOL.. He gets to go bear hunting with me this spring.
My oldest asked how animals that we get from the grocery store were raised and slaughtered. She is far more disgusted by that than Daddy putting an arrow or a bullet in something to eat. She likes the fact that wild animals get to live in freedom before we take them to eat.
In my experience with 3 yr. olds the ideas of pain and suffering are planted in their heads by teachers, mommy or daddy, or relatives. They rarely come up with it themselves, they usually don't have any life experiences to base it on.
My boy, 7, is deathly afraid of bears. It's become a real issue and causing him to loose sleep. The other night we watched American Archer on the Outdoor Channel. M.R. James and Dwight Schu and one other guy all killed good black bears on the show. My son was impressed you could do that with a bow and declared he was no longer aftraid..LOL.. He gets to go bear hunting with me this spring.
#7
My father first took me in the field at age 4. I carried my plastic rifle on a wyoming pheasant hunt. From that point, there was nothing I would rather do. I agree with bowhuntererman, there is a certain point where a person becomes mature enough, emotionally and mentally to begin. Taking a life is a serious thing. I know that it isn't "manly" to admit that we feel something when we walk up to a beautiful animal that we've killed, but we do. Many guys won't admit it, or they may not feel it due to the excitement of the hunt. This is where kids are most susceptible to pain and sorrow or guilt.
In my experience, before I my dad took me hunting, I was taught to respect animals, and to appreciate their beauty. Hazcon as far as your little girl goes, you have done the right thing, by teaching her and showing her the beauty of animals. I think that she will understand the "circle of life" and respect the animals. as she grows.
In my experience, before I my dad took me hunting, I was taught to respect animals, and to appreciate their beauty. Hazcon as far as your little girl goes, you have done the right thing, by teaching her and showing her the beauty of animals. I think that she will understand the "circle of life" and respect the animals. as she grows.
#8
My 3 year old son goes through spells. Sometimes he stays with me during the whole process and sometimes he doesn't. He and I killed a small buck together this year and he was really excited and 'helped' skin it and quarter it with me.
Sometimes he doesn't want anything to do with them. I believe the turning point is when they kill one. Either they love it or hate it.
My friend has a 13 year old son who killed his first one last year and was very excited when we were all there helping him clean it and quarter it. My friend told me that later his son was brought to tears about the kill and wasn't sure he wanted to hunt anymore. This year he is back in the woods hunting.
That first kill will be the turning point!
Sometimes he doesn't want anything to do with them. I believe the turning point is when they kill one. Either they love it or hate it.
My friend has a 13 year old son who killed his first one last year and was very excited when we were all there helping him clean it and quarter it. My friend told me that later his son was brought to tears about the kill and wasn't sure he wanted to hunt anymore. This year he is back in the woods hunting.
That first kill will be the turning point!
#9
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 634
Likes: 0
From:
A tough ? for sure. I waited patiently for my boy to show an interest in hunting. Once he did it kind of signalled me that he was ready to find out more. We sat through the DEC bow and gun courses and discussed all the aspects of hunting before ever taking to the field. I am glad that we took this route because he has matured immensely each year into a fine young man that respects safety, the joy of the preparation, the hunt and when a successful is gratified by his accomplishments. As I said it is always a tough call but by waiting for Joe to show interest our times together have been treasured by both of us immeasurably. Hope my input helps other dads and moms when facing similar situations.
#10
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,693
Likes: 0
From: Michigan
Wow that's a tough one. I agree with the others. Don't push it. Let her develop her own opinions. Your fathering her will naturally influence her enough to not have to push. I would have to say you are doing the right thing, keep your explanations vague though. That is what I did with my kids - they've both seen deer and game and fish being brought home their whole lives. They thought seeing the animals were really cool, especially deer. I left it at that and didn't tell them anything of the hunt or how the animal died. Today my daughter is 12 and has no interest in hunting whatsoever. That's fine though. She's not against it in anyway so I won't push her into it at all. My son is 10 and wants to hunt when he turns 12. I think that by kids being around a hunting family, even if it's just you that hunts, they will grow up to respect it.


