shooting dogs
12-03-2003, 08:38 AM
#21
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Free Union, VA
Posts: 750
RE: shooting dogs
I'd try to contact the owner. but as far as wild dogs. I've killed some when I was a teen. I'd do it again. There are a few dogs that run thru my neighborhood and I have hunted the woods behind my house. I wouldn't shoot one of these dogs because it just comes with the whole package of urban hunting for me.
my 2 cents.
my 2 cents.
12-03-2003, 08:40 AM
#22
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Chatsworth IL USA
Posts: 5,012
RE: shooting dogs
In my area, there used to be a known group of wild dogs. We shot at them every chance we got!! DOC knew they were around and didn't do a whole lot about them, which in my opinion is wrong. In Illinois it is against the law for a dog to chase wildlife.
So if a dog were to continually run deer on the property where I hunt, he would end up missing after a while.
I actually just warned a guy that lives within a quarter mile from where I hunt that his dog was chasing deer and that he might end up getting shot. He didn't even act like he cared.
Dogs — Deer and Turkey
It is unlawful to allow your dog to chase,
harass or kill deer. Dogs may be used for
hunting except for deer and turkey.
It is unlawful to allow your dog to chase,
harass or kill deer. Dogs may be used for
hunting except for deer and turkey.
I actually just warned a guy that lives within a quarter mile from where I hunt that his dog was chasing deer and that he might end up getting shot. He didn't even act like he cared.
12-03-2003, 08:44 AM
#23
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,862
RE: shooting dogs
Anyone that tries to macho-justify killing a domestic dog that is running through the fields, private property or public property, for no reason other than the dog is (maybe) chasing a deer, is a jerk of the first kind and causes bad publicity for all hunters. [:@]
If a person cannot tell the difference between dogs that have went wild and dogs that are "packing" for killing, from a domestic dog on the loose just enjoying him or herself, that person is not a true hunter and should be banned from hunting.
Private property does not give anyone the right to kill a dog that is not attacking domestic stock or people. In fact, in many states there are laws that prohibit killing a domestic animal without the utmost justification. Doing so can land your butt in the lockup, and you can pay a hefty fine and spend some time in a small room..and he or she should.
PS: Apparently, Texas law prohibits such outright and unjustified killing of domestic animals, and carries some heavy penalties.
http://www.animallaw.info/articles/d...y.htm#scienter
If a person cannot tell the difference between dogs that have went wild and dogs that are "packing" for killing, from a domestic dog on the loose just enjoying him or herself, that person is not a true hunter and should be banned from hunting.
Private property does not give anyone the right to kill a dog that is not attacking domestic stock or people. In fact, in many states there are laws that prohibit killing a domestic animal without the utmost justification. Doing so can land your butt in the lockup, and you can pay a hefty fine and spend some time in a small room..and he or she should.
PS: Apparently, Texas law prohibits such outright and unjustified killing of domestic animals, and carries some heavy penalties.
http://www.animallaw.info/articles/d...y.htm#scienter
12-03-2003, 08:59 AM
#24
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Memphis TN USA
Posts: 3,445
RE: shooting dogs
Anyone that tries to macho-justify killing a domestic dog that is running through the fields, private property or public property, for no reason other than the dog is (maybe) chasing a deer, is a jerk of the first kind
That being said I have dogs come in on me a few different times this year. One afternoon they actually spent more than and hour within 100 yards of my stand. However, if I am going to punish someone I would just go hit the owner in the mouth. It just isn't that big of a deal. I have from Oct. - Feb. to bowhunt and there will be a lot of other days. I don't like it, it pisses me off, but it's not the dogs fault. On the other hand, if the property belonged to me and the dogs were repeatedly running deer, I would kill them.
12-03-2003, 09:29 AM
#25
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Feeding Hills MA USA
Posts: 128
12-03-2003, 09:29 AM
#26
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,555
RE: shooting dogs
This is a wonderful post & I love this one each and every time it comes around.
For dos owners, Control your pets! A dog that dosn't repeatedly wander onto MY property while chaseing deer has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to worry about.
I love dogs although I don't own one. I had a problem with a neighbors dog this season. Offense one, I had a discussion with the owner who assured me the problem would end. Second offense I called the animal control officer. Because he dragged his feet getting to my property the dog was gone and he said he couldn't do anything. He was nice enough to go to the owner with me and we were assured that the dog wouldn't return. I made my intension known at that point if that mut returned to my property it would not return to the owners. This stired up both the owner and animal control but I think the owner got the point as the dog hasn't returned.
I have very little time to hunt and spend quite a bit of money to have some lazy slob who dosn't care to control his pet ruin my time out on MY PROPERTY!
Bottom line TAKE CARE OF YOUR DOG BECAUSE IF IT BECOMES AN ISSUE I WILL![:@]
For dos owners, Control your pets! A dog that dosn't repeatedly wander onto MY property while chaseing deer has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to worry about.
I love dogs although I don't own one. I had a problem with a neighbors dog this season. Offense one, I had a discussion with the owner who assured me the problem would end. Second offense I called the animal control officer. Because he dragged his feet getting to my property the dog was gone and he said he couldn't do anything. He was nice enough to go to the owner with me and we were assured that the dog wouldn't return. I made my intension known at that point if that mut returned to my property it would not return to the owners. This stired up both the owner and animal control but I think the owner got the point as the dog hasn't returned.
I have very little time to hunt and spend quite a bit of money to have some lazy slob who dosn't care to control his pet ruin my time out on MY PROPERTY!
Bottom line TAKE CARE OF YOUR DOG BECAUSE IF IT BECOMES AN ISSUE I WILL![:@]
12-03-2003, 09:46 AM
#27
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Feeding Hills MA USA
Posts: 128
RE: shooting dogs
When I read threads like this I stop wondering why hunters
A: Have a bad reputation
B: Have a difficult time getting permission to hunt private land
Any person shooting someonespet for any reason other then a direct attack on them is a true hunters worst enemy.
Keep up the good work morons, PETA loves the ammo you provide.
A: Have a bad reputation
B: Have a difficult time getting permission to hunt private land
Any person shooting someonespet for any reason other then a direct attack on them is a true hunters worst enemy.
Keep up the good work morons, PETA loves the ammo you provide.
12-03-2003, 09:51 AM
#28
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: saint joseph missouri USA
Posts: 548
RE: shooting dogs
I was going to keep quiet about this, but, I have heard enough.............
I think what is being said and the intent being made is the action against repeat offenders, for lack of a better term.
I had this situation come up just a few weeks ago before rifle season, while I was bowhunting in the stand. I had a pair of rat terriors, one male, one female, come by my stand, obviously they had been abandoned by the road by the looks of them. They had mange (sp?) really bad, but for the most part, were just trying to get by with what they had. They were not chasing deer or any other animals, just scrounging for something to eat. They had even walked up to the truck while my father and I were eating lunch one day. I let them pass with a smile and no worries, and have seen them several times since.
A week later, I had three larger dogs, that I have heard from the neighbors had been running deer, come by my stand. They all were half breeds and no collars. I had heard them barking from a distance, but they just appeared out of the timber in front of me with no sound. The stoutest dog, but not the largest, picked up on my drag-line trail of scent that I had left. Instantly he started growling and drooling at the mouth, followed the trail in front of my stand, and caught sight of me. The hair raised up on its back, and it started to chomp its jaws and slowly walk toward me. I was in my stand, out of danger, but got to thinking. Just a few days before that, my wife had been hunting with me, sitting in a camo chair directly beneath my stand as she sometimes does. What kind of danger would she have been in? This upset me enough to set an arrow flying at the dog infront of me. If I wasn't such a poor shot with a bow that day, I would NOT have felt at all bad about skewering his butt! The other two dogs ran off at the sight of me drawing my bow, and the third followed after I had planted one right between its front legs.
Later that week......I saw all three dogs laying in front of a farm house 2 miles away, none with collars or leashes.
Did that make me feel macho?? I wasn't doing it to feel macho. I even may have saved some young kid from a frightening experience in the timber, who knows?? Was it the dogs fault?? You bet it is! Along with the owners lack of responsibility! These dogs had run into other folks in the woods before, by the way the other two dogs took off from the sight of me in the stand. It will be the final lesson learned if they show up again. I have killed dogs that were running livestock of mine (exotics--Texas dall sheep, Mouflans, ect.) into, and through barb wire fences, after repeated attempts to have the owners keep tabs on them. After about the 3rd ram that has to be put down due to dogs running them through a fence and injuring them, you get short tempered about the situation.
I love dogs just as much or more than the next guy, and have two of them myself. But, like what was said earlier, they are mindful, taken care off, and have never been neglected to where they run off OR had the chance to run off. I have spent at least 8 to 10 thousand on one dog alone in the past 10 years, just to keep it alive from the condition in which my wife had found it. Burned, two broken legs, infection in the ears that cannot be removed, even after splitting the ears open and scraping them out like peeling a banana, infections in the eye common to the dogs breed, and by the way, the loss of one eye due to a veterinarians' mis-diagnosis and "ho hum" attitude towards the situation. It took a specialist in Kansas City to save the other eye.
Now, that being said..........
I, in no way, are intending to make it sound like all vets are like the one we had delt with.
But, on the same note, not all hunters shoot dogs to feel macho either. It should depend on the situation, like it has for me, and anyone else. You, as a vet, should realize this.
"Poor little Johnny's" dog would be alive today if the parents had taken the incentive to have Johnny take care of his dog.
The intended shooting of a dog is just the end result, not the cause........
I think what is being said and the intent being made is the action against repeat offenders, for lack of a better term.
I had this situation come up just a few weeks ago before rifle season, while I was bowhunting in the stand. I had a pair of rat terriors, one male, one female, come by my stand, obviously they had been abandoned by the road by the looks of them. They had mange (sp?) really bad, but for the most part, were just trying to get by with what they had. They were not chasing deer or any other animals, just scrounging for something to eat. They had even walked up to the truck while my father and I were eating lunch one day. I let them pass with a smile and no worries, and have seen them several times since.
A week later, I had three larger dogs, that I have heard from the neighbors had been running deer, come by my stand. They all were half breeds and no collars. I had heard them barking from a distance, but they just appeared out of the timber in front of me with no sound. The stoutest dog, but not the largest, picked up on my drag-line trail of scent that I had left. Instantly he started growling and drooling at the mouth, followed the trail in front of my stand, and caught sight of me. The hair raised up on its back, and it started to chomp its jaws and slowly walk toward me. I was in my stand, out of danger, but got to thinking. Just a few days before that, my wife had been hunting with me, sitting in a camo chair directly beneath my stand as she sometimes does. What kind of danger would she have been in? This upset me enough to set an arrow flying at the dog infront of me. If I wasn't such a poor shot with a bow that day, I would NOT have felt at all bad about skewering his butt! The other two dogs ran off at the sight of me drawing my bow, and the third followed after I had planted one right between its front legs.
Later that week......I saw all three dogs laying in front of a farm house 2 miles away, none with collars or leashes.
Did that make me feel macho?? I wasn't doing it to feel macho. I even may have saved some young kid from a frightening experience in the timber, who knows?? Was it the dogs fault?? You bet it is! Along with the owners lack of responsibility! These dogs had run into other folks in the woods before, by the way the other two dogs took off from the sight of me in the stand. It will be the final lesson learned if they show up again. I have killed dogs that were running livestock of mine (exotics--Texas dall sheep, Mouflans, ect.) into, and through barb wire fences, after repeated attempts to have the owners keep tabs on them. After about the 3rd ram that has to be put down due to dogs running them through a fence and injuring them, you get short tempered about the situation.
I love dogs just as much or more than the next guy, and have two of them myself. But, like what was said earlier, they are mindful, taken care off, and have never been neglected to where they run off OR had the chance to run off. I have spent at least 8 to 10 thousand on one dog alone in the past 10 years, just to keep it alive from the condition in which my wife had found it. Burned, two broken legs, infection in the ears that cannot be removed, even after splitting the ears open and scraping them out like peeling a banana, infections in the eye common to the dogs breed, and by the way, the loss of one eye due to a veterinarians' mis-diagnosis and "ho hum" attitude towards the situation. It took a specialist in Kansas City to save the other eye.
Now, that being said..........
I, in no way, are intending to make it sound like all vets are like the one we had delt with.
But, on the same note, not all hunters shoot dogs to feel macho either. It should depend on the situation, like it has for me, and anyone else. You, as a vet, should realize this.
"Poor little Johnny's" dog would be alive today if the parents had taken the incentive to have Johnny take care of his dog.
The intended shooting of a dog is just the end result, not the cause........
12-03-2003, 10:05 AM
#29
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Peterstown WV USA
Posts: 2,541
RE: shooting dogs
To me this is not about a nice little pet running around in the woods it is about dogs chasing deer. I would not kill a dog for just being in the woods or being around my stand it happens all the time at one of my stands but I know they will be there and I still have taken several deer there. To me this is about dogs chasing deer how many of you have actually saw this happen I have I have saw deer ran to death yes they are fast abut a dog can run them into the ground. And it does happen and most of the time they dont eat them they are just having fun well if you own a dog keep it up if you ahve a farn or large amounts of land but keep your aniaml under control .
If I see a deer chasing a hugh buck the dog is dead if I can hit it.
If I see a deer chasing a hugh buck the dog is dead if I can hit it.
12-03-2003, 10:08 AM
#30
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: East Texas
Posts: 1,382
RE: shooting dogs
I'm busy at the office right now but here are the very first 2 links that came up when I did a search on this topic. I have spent hours researching this and talking about this with the cheif biologist for the Texas Parks and Wildlife Dept. for my area. At one point I had a ton of links, website, and studies on this but I must have deleted all the links? It doesn't take very much effort (or common sense) to see how big on an issue this really is.
Let me also make one more comment that I seemed to have over looked last night. This topic was started about shooting dogs with bows....I didn't really think about that when I made my first post. I will be the first to admit that in 99.9% of all situations I would not shoot a dog with a bow for a few different reasons. The bow and arrow are a lethal combo but due to the small size of the vitals and the fact that the dog would not be killed instantly, I would most likely never shoot a dog with my bow.
Here are a couple links to look at. Trust me the DNR of most states is not impressed or amused by domestic dogs chasing wildlife and I can assure you they do not take it as lightly as many hunters on this board.
Let me also make one more comment that I seemed to have over looked last night. This topic was started about shooting dogs with bows....I didn't really think about that when I made my first post. I will be the first to admit that in 99.9% of all situations I would not shoot a dog with a bow for a few different reasons. The bow and arrow are a lethal combo but due to the small size of the vitals and the fact that the dog would not be killed instantly, I would most likely never shoot a dog with my bow.
Here are a couple links to look at. Trust me the DNR of most states is not impressed or amused by domestic dogs chasing wildlife and I can assure you they do not take it as lightly as many hunters on this board.
MN DNR Home > News > RadioBite >
RadioBite script: Dogs chasing deer
February 21, 2003
RadioBite Script
Dogs chasing deer
Track: As the snow begins to melt, the DNR reminds owners to not let their dogs chase deer and other wildlife which can become quite a problem at this time of year. DNR Conservation officer Steve Jacobson says a deer chased by dogs can die of stress and exhaustion. Dog owners face fines, or worse.
RadioBite #025
:24 Dogs chasing deer, Steve Jacobson, DNR Conservation Officer
"But the big thing is for every deer that they kill, they can be assessed a $500 civil penalty for each animal that that dog kills, so it can be a very expensive if their dog is seen chasing deer. As well as the fact the dog can be shot by police officers or conservation officers at anytime they observe a dog chasing deer."
Track: The DNR encourages anyone seeing wildlife harassment to contact their local conservation officer.
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/radiobite/script_025.html
RadioBite script: Dogs chasing deer
February 21, 2003
RadioBite Script
Dogs chasing deer
Track: As the snow begins to melt, the DNR reminds owners to not let their dogs chase deer and other wildlife which can become quite a problem at this time of year. DNR Conservation officer Steve Jacobson says a deer chased by dogs can die of stress and exhaustion. Dog owners face fines, or worse.
RadioBite #025
:24 Dogs chasing deer, Steve Jacobson, DNR Conservation Officer
"But the big thing is for every deer that they kill, they can be assessed a $500 civil penalty for each animal that that dog kills, so it can be a very expensive if their dog is seen chasing deer. As well as the fact the dog can be shot by police officers or conservation officers at anytime they observe a dog chasing deer."
Track: The DNR encourages anyone seeing wildlife harassment to contact their local conservation officer.
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/radiobite/script_025.html
Dogs Chasing Wildlife A Serious Problem by Colorado Dept. of Fish and Game
One of the attractions of living in Colorado is the feeling of independence some dog owners get from letting their pets roam free. But when you are not paying attention to Lassie, do you know what she is doing?
Lonnie Brown of the Colorado Division of Wildlife suggests that most dog owners are not aware of what their dogs are up to when they are out roaming. And, he added, they're not being kind to the dog.
Wildlife managers believe that people underestimate the potential for their dog to get into trouble. Most people do not believe that their dog would chase wildlife.
"People think it's great that their dogs can run," Brown said. "But they don't know what the dogs do when they are out of sight. Because the dog is well mannered when the owner is around, the owner underestimates the potential for their pet to chase wildlife."
In reality, the dog is out there doing what dogs do - following a scent and chasing down prey. Single dogs are usually not much of a problem to wildlife, but when they team-up with neighbor dogs and form packs, the hunter/killer instinct surfaces and they become a serious threat to wild animals.
Domestic dogs chasing deer, elk, and even bighorn sheep is an increasing problem in Colorado, according to Brown. And it is particularly hazardous at this time of year - for both the game animals and the dogs.
"Winter is an appropriate time to talk about the problem," Brown said. "It's never a good time. But there are two times of year when it's crucial. One is in the spring, when elk and deer have their calves and fawns."
"This time of year is just as critical, because these big game animals are expending every bit of energy to stay alive. It is a growing problem because of urban sprawl. More people are moving out to the country to get away from the city. As a result, Colorado wildlife is being stretched to its limits," he said.
Brown points out that dogs chasing game animals is especially bad for the wildlife when it is cold out. The dog is frisky, full of food, and ready to go. However, the wild critters are out there 24 hours a day, burning a lot of energy just to stay alive.
"When dogs are let loose, they naturally chase the wildlife," Brown said. "It's devastating what a dog can do to an animal, especially when they kill it. The dogs are usually well fed at home, so most kills are not made because the dogs are hungry, but rather instinct and frenzy."
However, dogs do not always kill the animals. Dogs, in their domestication, have lost many of their instincts for making quick kills, and instead chase, harass and terrorize wildlife until the chased animal collapses in exhaustion.
"For example, if a dog chases a deer they often do not know what to do with it once they catch it," said Brown. "Coyotes are efficient killers, but dogs will bite the nose off and chew ears. The animal really suffers when the dog is just playing around."
The penalty to the owner of a dog harassing wildlife is a $274 fine. In addition, Colorado considers deer, elk and bighorn sheep as state property valued at $500 for a deer, $700 for an elk and $1,000 for a bighorn respectively. That means pet owners could be charged with a civil offense and billed for any wildlife injured or killed by their dog.
According to state law, any peace officer has the option of capturing, or killing a dog that is caught chasing wildlife. In reality, this means the penalty to the dog can be death.
"It is illegal for anyone other than a game warden or peace officer to kill dogs that are chasing wild game," Brown said. "But that's no guarantee it won't happen," he said.
"People should be aware if their dog is loose, it could get shot by a neighbor who is unhappy about it running loose," Brown said. "It may be illegal, and immoral, but sometimes people decide to take care of problems themselves. So there is not only a threat to wildlife, but the dog could get shot, hit by a car or poisoned."
Brown said that only after all efforts to contact a pet owner have failed would the dog be shot and killed. "I hate to do it, I love dogs," he said. "I would rather issue a citation to the owner first."
The last thing a wildlife manger wants to do is go talk to someone about controlling their dog, Brown said.
"If people make a little extra effort we wouldn't have these problems," he said. "The Division of Wildlife doesn't perceive this as a dog problem. We perceive it as a people problem."
http://www.cabelas.com/information/c...s-Problem.html
One of the attractions of living in Colorado is the feeling of independence some dog owners get from letting their pets roam free. But when you are not paying attention to Lassie, do you know what she is doing?
Lonnie Brown of the Colorado Division of Wildlife suggests that most dog owners are not aware of what their dogs are up to when they are out roaming. And, he added, they're not being kind to the dog.
Wildlife managers believe that people underestimate the potential for their dog to get into trouble. Most people do not believe that their dog would chase wildlife.
"People think it's great that their dogs can run," Brown said. "But they don't know what the dogs do when they are out of sight. Because the dog is well mannered when the owner is around, the owner underestimates the potential for their pet to chase wildlife."
In reality, the dog is out there doing what dogs do - following a scent and chasing down prey. Single dogs are usually not much of a problem to wildlife, but when they team-up with neighbor dogs and form packs, the hunter/killer instinct surfaces and they become a serious threat to wild animals.
Domestic dogs chasing deer, elk, and even bighorn sheep is an increasing problem in Colorado, according to Brown. And it is particularly hazardous at this time of year - for both the game animals and the dogs.
"Winter is an appropriate time to talk about the problem," Brown said. "It's never a good time. But there are two times of year when it's crucial. One is in the spring, when elk and deer have their calves and fawns."
"This time of year is just as critical, because these big game animals are expending every bit of energy to stay alive. It is a growing problem because of urban sprawl. More people are moving out to the country to get away from the city. As a result, Colorado wildlife is being stretched to its limits," he said.
Brown points out that dogs chasing game animals is especially bad for the wildlife when it is cold out. The dog is frisky, full of food, and ready to go. However, the wild critters are out there 24 hours a day, burning a lot of energy just to stay alive.
"When dogs are let loose, they naturally chase the wildlife," Brown said. "It's devastating what a dog can do to an animal, especially when they kill it. The dogs are usually well fed at home, so most kills are not made because the dogs are hungry, but rather instinct and frenzy."
However, dogs do not always kill the animals. Dogs, in their domestication, have lost many of their instincts for making quick kills, and instead chase, harass and terrorize wildlife until the chased animal collapses in exhaustion.
"For example, if a dog chases a deer they often do not know what to do with it once they catch it," said Brown. "Coyotes are efficient killers, but dogs will bite the nose off and chew ears. The animal really suffers when the dog is just playing around."
The penalty to the owner of a dog harassing wildlife is a $274 fine. In addition, Colorado considers deer, elk and bighorn sheep as state property valued at $500 for a deer, $700 for an elk and $1,000 for a bighorn respectively. That means pet owners could be charged with a civil offense and billed for any wildlife injured or killed by their dog.
According to state law, any peace officer has the option of capturing, or killing a dog that is caught chasing wildlife. In reality, this means the penalty to the dog can be death.
"It is illegal for anyone other than a game warden or peace officer to kill dogs that are chasing wild game," Brown said. "But that's no guarantee it won't happen," he said.
"People should be aware if their dog is loose, it could get shot by a neighbor who is unhappy about it running loose," Brown said. "It may be illegal, and immoral, but sometimes people decide to take care of problems themselves. So there is not only a threat to wildlife, but the dog could get shot, hit by a car or poisoned."
Brown said that only after all efforts to contact a pet owner have failed would the dog be shot and killed. "I hate to do it, I love dogs," he said. "I would rather issue a citation to the owner first."
The last thing a wildlife manger wants to do is go talk to someone about controlling their dog, Brown said.
"If people make a little extra effort we wouldn't have these problems," he said. "The Division of Wildlife doesn't perceive this as a dog problem. We perceive it as a people problem."
http://www.cabelas.com/information/c...s-Problem.html