A deep question
 

As an expirienced hunter of of some 26 or so years and taking well over 25 bucks, I have a question for other seasoned veterans. Have you ever expirienced a time when the hunt is more of a thrill than the shot. I mean I love the time in the woods, I still can watch and be entertained as the squirrels and chipmunks fill my time as I wait fo the next doe or buck to wander through and get my heart pounding. But recently I had a nice little 8 point come right in as one would hope. While I got excited and my heart was racing, I still pondered whether or not I wanted to shoot. Bascically I let him pass without even drawing on him. Now I am questioning why? Is it the fact that I have taken much larger bucks and set a personal best last year with a true trophy that hangs on my wall? I' m sure if it was a trophy I would have shot right? hmmm? I look forward to each and every hunt and get out as often as possible. I am at that point where every hunt is succesful to me. Crap please don' t tell me I' m maturing..YIKES. I still walk by my mounted deer from last season with amazement..Maybe it all changed when I actually tagged a buck that rivals most other trophies one sees on TV or at shows or whatever. Maybe I am destined to be a trophy hunter from this point on..but what do I do with this doe tag?? Comments..?

RE: A deep question
 

I SAY YOU SHOULD DO WHAT YOUR HEART TELLS YOU. SUCCESS LIES IN THE EYES OF THE BEHOLDER. IF SEEING A BUCK OR A DOE OR SOMETHING OFF THE WALL IN THE WOODS IS A THRILL AS IT IS FOR ME, THEN WHY DO YOU NEED TO SHOOT ANYTHING. BOWHUNTING FOR ME IS NOT AS MUCH ABOUT KILLING A TROPHY ANIMAL AS IS THE THRILL OF THE THINGS YOU SEE. JUST THIS SATURDAY I WITNESSED FOR THE FIRST TIME A 2-1/2 YEAR OLD BUCK SNORT WHEEZE. HE WAS AT 10 YARDS AND I HAD RATTLED HIM IN AND HE WAS PI$$ED OFF. HE WASN' T QUITE BIG ENOUGH TO SHOOT, BUT JUST SEEING THAT MADE MY SEASON. JUST MY THOUGHTS.

RE: A deep question
 

I' ve only taken two bucks ever, both with my bow and both on the wall. As far as size they are medium, both around 90-110 scoring wise. Anyway, I have a short term goal of only taking bucks bigger than my last one. I realize that once I take a huge one I' ll be at a point were waiting for one that big might not happen. That is my personal level of expectation.

Here is an interesting read I found on the web:
http://mainehuntingtoday.com/phpweb/index.php?module=article&view=88
It says there are five stages of hunting and that as we mature we reach the next stage.

RE: A deep question
 

Solax,
That was a very interesting article. I can definately relate. If I were to dx Badatta2d I' d have to classify him as a Sportsman. That right! I' m sorry to say Badatta2d that you are now offically a SPORTSMAN. Now get out there and enjoy those hunts. If you are finding enjoyment in just getting out then bless you. It will be damn tought to have a bad day. :D

RE: A deep question
 

shoot doe and give me the meat

RE: A deep question
 

I read an interesting article once.It described the phases that most hunters go through.First we want to kill a deer any deer.Then after we kill a few we want to kill as many as possible.Fill all the tags.Then after we' ve killed a good many deer we want to kill nice bucks.After a few nice bucks then how we kill them becomes more important.Maybe with a recurve or a muzzleloader.Then at some point the hunt becomes more important than the actual kill.Of course some folks get hung up at some point and never make it out of the kill em all or the trophy stage.But in general I think it' s true.At some point you realize you don' t have anything to prove by killing the biggest or the mostest and just enjoy the hunt.The older I get I enjoy the comraderie at the camp.Good times spent with good friends as much as the hunt.I get much more out of seeing my kids and nephews kill deer than actually killing them myself.Of course when the time comes to satisfy that urge I' m still more than happy to take an animal.It' s just not THE most important thing anymore.

CB

RE: A deep question
 

I agree with CAJUN,

Whether it be gun or bow hunting, I think it' s a natural progression, just maturing as a hunter (or a person).

When I was young, I just wanted to kill a deer, any deer. Then I moved to LA.

When I moved back to gods country after living in LA for 7 years. My family purchased some hunting land.

Initially, I just wanted to kill as many deer as possible, not just me, but my party. Kill em all, brown is down, the herd is huge...

My attitude started changing when I found myself becoming angry with my hunting party for what I considered bad hunting practices. Nothing illegal, just plain stupid. Although I never got outwardly angry, except when they would leave a good blood trail to watch football (We' ve found two of their deer in this scenerio), it still ate me up inside.

Amazingly, my attitude change coincided with taking up bow hunting. I so enjoy the hunting party aspect of the gun hunt. There is not a better time to be with friends than on the hunt. But they hunt, I' m a hunter. Bow hunting gives me all the time I need to enjoy hunting, and be as serious as I want to be, which allows me to just be with the guys during the gun hunt, and have fun as well. I' ll still chastise them for things, but it doesn' t bother me as much. If they mess up, fine, do deer in their freezer.

There is also that competative aspect of hunting. I GOT A DEER!!! I think that' s just growing up as well, although you still will feel that with sibblings. Last year, I had no real deer stand (on my own land!) but I still had fun. My older brother got his first deer on the land, and I showed him the finer points of dressing it, he' s in the service, and that was the first time he had hunted on his own land, so it was great.

My focus for the past few years (once again, coinciding with bow hunting) has been the shot itself. I' ve killed 4 deer in the past 3 years, and they have dropped on the spot, all neck shots, I know people have their opinions on that sort of shot, but I' m deadly with my 7mm. I practice all year long, and am confident I can make the shot, if I don' t have it, I don' t take it.

Finally, I' m really getting into still hunting. As I said before, I really had no stand opening weekend, but I had a blast still hunting. I took over 3 hours to move less than half a mile. Just fun. Never saw anything :(, but I had in the past. After opening weekend, I came back and still hunted again, I passed up several doe trying to get to my destination. When I was within 50 yards of where I was heading, some hunters several ridges away took a shot. 7 deer near me (close) ran by and I shot an 8 pointer at 10 yards. The deer the other hunters shot at ran by be a few minutes later (at 5 feet, really) and I let them go. We had just cut up 4 deer the night before, had my friends buck (and mine) to go, so I let them go. If you had been there while my friends alcoholic wife was telling you how great he was and how we sucked you may have shot, but I guess I have grown up a bit (sure was tempting though).


Geez I babble, I just wanted to agree with CAJUN. It' s what you get out of the hunt. I may not shoot any deer, but I sure still get the rush when I see em. Priorities on the hunt may change day to day, but if your out there, your having fun. Hope I didn' t bore you.

The Trashcanman

RE: A deep question
 

I' m getting to the point I' m even thinking about quiting. Every year it becomes more like work. The hassle of finding and trying to keep property to hunt on is getting like a war with the other hunters. In my State there are a Million hunters and half of then sem to be around me no matter where I go. I had them scheme against me and other hunters to get the landowner to get us off the property. There is no thing anymore as a hunt it all ends up to be a war against the very people that should be united. The cost to hunt is almost pass what a person on a fixed income can afford. And the rules and regulations just keep getting more stupid.I have had stands stolen.shot in to and destroyed. 50 % of the time I go out someone walks past me on private property. Heck last week I heard a bell ringing ,then talking. Here comes a husband and wife,little girl and to dogs walking past me. No orange. They ask me what I was doing?? I said what the hay are you doing??? They said it is family share day for us. You guys really need to put orange on then read the no trespassing signs. There response> we pay taxes to in this country.

RE: A deep question
 

Some People [:@]

I have been the same way passing on deer, but I always take a shot with my camera ;) Much easier to drag home. :D

RE: A deep question
 

I think Cardeer hit it on the head here in PA. I know quite a few other hunters that have decided to stop hunting because of similar reasons. And the state wonders why license purchasing is on a decline.

RE: A deep question
 

I have progressed through the years, I killed a monster in 74 with a gun and started letting the little ones walk after that, killed a lot of doe after that and some decent bucks. I just started hunting with a bow a few years ago and am right now back where I used to be with a gun before the big buck with the gun, I will be glad to get my first buck with a bow to where I can get that under my belt and progress, however with the number of deer we have in my area I will still kill every doe I see.

RE: A deep question
 

Wow.... That reminds me of two of my brothers-in-law back home in upstate NY. They both were big-time hunters back in the 70' s. They haven' t hunted in years, and have no desire to get back into it, no matter how much I ask. The laws changed for the worst, and most importantly, the land has changed and beautiful hunting properties have virtually disappeared. It' s the same with my dad and uncle. They were hunters back in the 50' s and 60' s too, and have since passed on, so they can' t see how hunting land is slowly disappearing little by little. [:' (]

Butch

RE: A deep question
 

I' ve always believed that we all hunt for different reasons. I even hunt for different reasons at different times of the year. It really doesn' t matter why you do it, if you have a deep need to be out there taking it all in and feeling alive, then get out there and do it. Kill or don' t kill, that is personal too. It is between you, God and the animal.

I can' t imagine not watching the leaves tumble and fall as I wait for a buck, missing the woodies landing in the decoys when it is too dark to shoot and all I can see is their wake, talking at the truck about cutting Joe' s shirt tale, planning the trip to WalMart to buy shells, practicing all summer in the yard, convincing my wife that I just have to get out tonight and that she' ll have to get the kids to practice, finding the best trails for a stand, checking the swamp for scrapes and rubs, drinking coffee in the truck between a morning hunt and an afternoon hunt, my Christmas hunt, oh yeah, the naps...

[:-]sorry, I got caught up in the memories. Either you need it or you don' t. For me, I hope that when I am ninety, I need it just like now...just like twenty-nine years ago. Don' t question why you let him walk. You did. That is a whole new level of being a hunter. Enjoy it!

Greg

RE: A deep question
 

You MUST use the doe tag! If you don' t do it for yourself, do it for the herd and for the future quality of your hunts which indirectly does affect you. Last year I passed upwards of 25 different bucks and the thrill I get from that is second to only bagging daddy rabbit. I love to watch deer much more than I enjoy plunking the first legal deer that comes by. Good luck.

RE: A deep question
 

Just last night I read an article on another bowhunting site that delt with this topic. I' ll be more than happy to post a link if you want it. It is suprisingly simular to what Taz stated and basically talks about a hunting triangle which is composed of three key attributes, Challange, Experience, and Harvest/Kill.

As hunters mature in the process they bounce around between the areas until finally the experience becomes the most important factor. Made for some interesting reading and it sounds like you fall in line perfectly!

Personally, I wouldn' t second guess myself and continue to do what you find pleasurable. If that for the time being is watching wildlife instead of harvesting it, then so be it. Now get back out there and enjoy your time afield. :D

RE: A deep question
 

see, this is what i dont understand. your saying that you know numerous hunters that have quit and ive also heard that there used to be alot more hunters back in the day when the ol timers were around. once the older guys stopped hunting, non of the younger guys took to the sport and to reflect the decline, fewer hunting lisence were sold. yet, every time i come on this board i hear someone whinning about how there are too many hunters and they cant get a decent size buck and they have no where to hunt. i think its a bunch of crap. PA has millions of acres of state game land...millions..!!! i gaurantee you i could put you next to a tree where you wont see another person, hear another person, hear a car, smell a fire place, hear a dog bark for weeks! i think the problem is that the typical hunter is lazy and wants to be able to go out in thier front yard and kill a deer.

RE: A deep question
 

I kind of agree with AKA.
We have a camp in Pa and do 90% of our hunting on State GAme LAnds. Yes go into the woods 100 yards off the roads and you see folks in places. Hike back over 1 or 2 mountains and you have it too yourself. I may see 40-60 deer on opening day of gun season. Talk to the folks on the fringes and they see many less. Yes the drag is easier but it' s even easier yet to drag nothing!

Anyhow on this topic, I appreciate all the replies. I am convinced I did the right thing for that situation. I never really questioned it until I relayed the story to other guys and they were shocked I' d let a nice buck walk. But looking back at the guys in who questioned my decision, they are not lesser hunters nor kill happy, they have just not enjoyed the level of success that I have had. Anyway good luck to everyone this season and may your deer be a trophy if only in your minds eye. And that folks is the most important view! Thanks again

RE: A deep question
 

eastwood you bring up some interesting points, most older hunters are generally from the countryside and most people who lived in the country did hunt, very few people from the city hunted, as a result hunting was a county thing so there was plenty of property to hunt on without bumping into another hunter. When I first started hunting in the early 60' s I could hunt an entire season and never bump into another hunter while hunting, but when you went to the checking station at the end of the day the place was packed with hunters. It was also very easy to get permission to hunt because every body knew everyone.

As farming has become more modernized it took fewer farmers to farm a large farm and as a result many people who were raised in the country moved into the cities for work, but they kept their hunting traditions and people from the city due to them started hunting more. Well urban sprawl and higher harvest rates from less land has led to less land to hunt.

There are a lot more hunters today than there were 40+ years ago, less land to hunt on and fewer people willing to let you hunt, as a result public hunting grounds are over run.

In a nutshell 40+ years ago hardly anyone hunted who lived in the city and almost all country folk did hunt, now there are a bunch of city folk hunting and we still have the country folk out there to.

RE: A deep question
 

There less hunters, but there more inconsiderate crackerheads in the woods then it was years ago. Even years ago a hunter would respect your choice of spot on public land.Not today even on posted private land they steal ,poach and all kind of crazy things. I understand about seeing nature and being in touch with it. But I can do that in my back yard dont need to go share it with a orange army. If you want a experience just come down here and spend one day at the border of the local gamelands. A normal day is 40 people and 1 running deer.and thats anywhere on 4800 acres. The roads are double parked with cars. I should not have to travel up state to the big woods to hunt around respectful hunters.Anyway It would cost me 1000.00 a season just driving there everyday for three months

RE: A deep question
 

I should have been more clear on my post. I wasn' t referring to public game lands. I understand that there are thousands of acres of hunting property out there that doesn' t get touched. I was referring more to the private areas where people just don' t give a rats a$$ about respecting the property or other hunters.

RE: A deep question
 

This is what it' s all about & why I go back year after year:

Opening Day

As the blackness gives way to grays I can make out the silhouette of a large white oak tree directly in front of me. I' ve been listening to what sounds like rain for a half hour now. The sound is, in fact, an abundant acorn crop; a welcomed distraction after last year' s drought stricken season. I watch a busy squirrel scurry down the tree and begin gathering the plentiful wealth of winter meals lying about the forest floor. Slowly, the grays yield to yellows, oranges, & reds & I have become the centerpiece of a tapestry only God could paint. The air is crisp & clean & somehow therapeutic, as the worries of the previous week now seem less significant. I' ve waited eight long months for this morning; for this reunion. Suddenly, I hear rustling in the distant leaves. My heart races & my eyes light up. Is it a deer? Is it a buck? As the noise comes closer, my heart pounds harder to the point of bursting out of my chest. I tell myself to calm down, to take deep breaths... but it' s no use, the moment has embraced me as if to say " welcome home." This is Opening Day

RE: A deep question
 

I' ve been the butt of many of the jokes of the hunters (mostly family) that share the property I hunt on. They have trouble understanding how I can let little deer or does with little ones walk by unassaulted. On many occasions I have sat and watched immature bucks spar for hours at distances shorter than 30 yards. It' s a lot of fun and you can learn a lot from them. I think that by letting them walk there is a good chance one may return in a few years with an enormous rack and give me an easy shot in return for the favor of letting them walk years before. The problem is that every other hunter (except my father) shoots anything that moves. Fortunately PA instituted a new law last year requiring a buck to have three scoreable points on one side to be considered a legal deer. Hopefully that will help improve the odds of getting the wall hanger I' m looking for.

Keep up the " good" work!

RE: A deep question
 

that was awsome. very well put.

as far as phases that hunters go through. i agree, and i think people in genral go through these types of phases in every aspect of life. ill give two senarios

dating/women/gettin some -

1st phase - magazines, day dreaming, your willing to nail anything that moves and for some of us (excluding atlasman ...just kidding..):D it happens

2nd phase - youve finally honed your pick up lines and style, you know what " usually" works. its not as challenging anymore so you decide you want a hottie, and for the next few years you waste your time trying to land a " trophy/arm candy"

3rd phase - you wise up and realize that your trophys gets hit on even while your standing right beside her by the guys that are going through phase 2 and your tired of gettnig your heart ripped out of your chest tossed in the gutter.

4th phase - you begin the search for the one. obviously looks still count, but not as much. you actually listen to her talk so you can find out what kind of person she really is. who cares if she isnt a 36-24-36, she flips your switch and that all that matters.

5th phase - you finally have the one youve been looking for and realize the beauty in all women. its not just implants and big ol DSL lips, its the person inside them.

the other senario is work/jobs/careers

1st - young, gung ho, wanna take on the world. your goal is to make 60k a year by the time your 26 years old.

2nd phase - your now 26 and your still under the 50k mark and realize 47k isnt that bad. its basically the salary your father retired at. but you would stilllike to hit that 60k mark, so you start looking for a job with another company.

3rd phase - you find a job with another company for 2k more than what you wer making at your last job, but you boss is an idiot and one of the guys you work with has really bad breath, but you deal with it. your yearly review come around and its a fatty...10% salary increase. your now 30 years old you make almost 55k a year but your in another tax bracet and your about to get married. you get married nad have kids.

4th phase - you have kids, and a wife. now your major concern is just keeping your job beacuse it has GREAT benifits, you own a house and and two cars and your wife can stay at home and care for the kids. now your 33 and your just shy of 60k but your happy you have a good paying job, plenty of vacation time to hunt, great benifits and your family is happy.

RE: A deep question
 

You can' t eat the horns. Maybe chew on them but they can' t be very good. As for the doe tag, have you considered giving back? What I' m talking about is donating a deer (whole or portions) to FHFH ( www.fhfh.com )? The good Lord created to wildlife for us, why not give a little back? Not trying to preach or anything just thinking about the kids that don' t have much to eat or a place to sleep.