Letter of Resignition?
 

We have all seen the numerous topics about lost and wounded deer on here, and heard many negative things about bowhunting and injured animals and what not.....Well before i get started, lets go back a little. I spent most of my time over the summer practicing shooting my bow in my back yard, usually about an hour a day. Ive practiced in a tree stand, on the ground, sitting, kneeling, you name it. anyways...we have all heard plenty of griping about yahoo' s out in the woods that dont know what they are doing and wounding animals. Well i never thought i was a yahoo but i guess you have one less one to worry about. This season, since oct. 1, i have shot and killed one deer, a doe. As i was comming up to shoot i accidently hit the trigger, hit it in the spine above the front shoulder......LUCKY...Aimed at another doe last weekend only to see it run off with my arrow lightly tucked into its shoulder. Looked for hours and hours and found zero blood. I could even see where the leaves were turned up from it running through the packed leaves of the trail. Lets not forget opening day when i missed, so i think, a doe, couldnt find an arrow or blood, but i think i missed. Then this morning, i had a doe come out, about 7 yards, shot, hit right below the spine, watched it run about 1/2 mile across the feild with my arrow hanging out of its side. 10 seconds later a young buck walks up to 10 yards, i shoot high again. We tracked both of these animals for hours, only to find the wee amounts of blood lessen and lessen to nothing. I know this is 100% my fault and im not saying anything AGAINST bowhunting. Mainly i just need to vent. But im taking a break, at least till after gun season is over, maybe even for the rest of bowseason. I practice and practice and practice and practice and im patient in the tree waiting for the perfect broadside shot. I just dont know what to do except quit. My bow is sighted in. i can hit a 3-D target perfect, but when it comes to a live animal, all i can seem to do is torture them. Maybe this is how a lot of people starts out, or maybe bowhunting just isnt for me, i dont know. Ive been bowhuntin...well...ive been sitting in a tree with a bow for the past 2 seasons and hadnt shot at a deer until this year. Did anyone else have problems like these starting out cause im about to go irate and throw my bow in the lake......its so frustrating. anyways....youve got one less hillbilly in the woods wounding animals, for now. sorry if this is a pointless waste of you time, i just need to tell someone about this, thats the only thing i really can do........:(

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

Don' t quit..just learn! Experience is the best way to learn.

By the way......the first year I started shooting a bow I was 22 yrs. old. I shot a lot, but didn' t feel I was ready to hunt that season. I waited until the next season to hunt, best thing I did. I am not suggesting to you to do that. But patience and controlling your emotions while bowhunting is as important as shooting. Actually its a very important part of shooting at game.

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

i agree cougar mag, ive gone the past 2, maybe three seasons without attempting to take an animal. I drew on one doe, but didnt think i was good enough and i wasnt real confident with my bow. So i got a new bow, and practice practice practice....and...well, you read it lol

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

Mossy, don' t be too hard on yourself. Animals are wounded by bowhunters, period. Especially when you first begin and you haven' t got your emotions fully under control. I' ve lost several deer myself, some were bad shots, others I thought were good and just ran out of blood. Most of my losses were early in my career. You learn from mistakes, you learn to control your body during that moment of truth. If you can truly shoot as good as you say, it will happen for you. Bowhunting is about up and downs. About 5 yrs ago I shot the biggest buck I' ve ever seen in the woods. He was 20 yds quartering away and I hit two far back and only got one lung. I bumped him from his bed which was about 70yds from the shot and never saw hide or hair of him. I had an airplane fly over looking, I got a trained dog, and I searched for 3 straight days and nothing. I honestly thought about that deer EVERY day for 2 yrs, I felt horrible, and I may never see another deer that big again. But, I kept at it and have killed many deer since and haven' t lost another since. DON' T GIVE UP. PRACTICE MORE. GET SOME SHOTS UNDER YOUR BELT. You may never lose another one, sometimes luck can go against you in unbelievable ways. One thing though, you mentioned that you shot high several times.... Is your bow loud, are the deer ducking your shot? Try only taking shots where the deer is not looking in your direction. A deer that sees you release will ALWAYS drop a considerable amount by the time the arrow arrives, even at 15 yds. Stick with it buddy. And don' t give up easily on blood trails, give 100% every time. Good luck.

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

Mossy Oak,

Don' t give up just yet!!! Take a break?......Maybe. Sounds like to me that you' re just havin a run of REALLY bad luck. I' ve been bowhunting for more than 10 years and have harvested my fair share of deer, elk, antelope, pig, etc. etc. etc..........even so, once I make the decision that I' m going to take the shot, whether it be buck or doe, my heart starts raising, my knees start knocking and the adrenaline kicks in. That is partly, what bowhunting is all about!!!!

Continue practicing and continue hunting. For that matter, keep reading and building your knowledge of hunting. I remember reading a few months back in one of my bowhunting magazines (not sure which one) about a gentlemen that got BUCK FEVER so bad, he too, contemplated quitting. In fact, he did quit for awhile until he found another bowhunter/friend that was able to help him correct his problem.

Whatever you decide.......the best of luck to you and welcome to the wonderful world of bowhunting.

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

If your hitting a 3-d target as good as you say you are, but you' re missing the vitals when shooting at game, then it sounds like your not relaxing when you shoot at live game. Talk yourself through the shot just as you would when shooting at 3-d targets. Have you shot your bow since these outings at 3-d targets? Could you have knocked your sights out of whack?

Now, in my opinion, I would have tried to find the doe before shooting at the buck.
You' ll probably get a few follow-ups to this,(about shooting a deer after wounding one w/o finding it) but try to learn from this experience. No matter how well you shoot at a 3-d target, it just isn' t the same when the rush hits you and your trying to hit a live deer.

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

Mossy Oak, listen to Cougar, he' s da man.
I can feel your frustration, don' t quit, short break is a good idea, keep practising,
re-gain your confidence, re-group, re-charge, unload the weight from your heart and shoulders, forget the past and go back to your woods and start fresh, you' re not a yahoo with the bow just a victim of circumstances which with time would be able to control.
Good Luck

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

im going to get up early tomorrow and check my sites and see if they are outa whack.
Wear, 99% of the time i wouldnt have taken that second shot, but i saw the doe run a long way and knew exactly where it went...so i thought...Either way, poor decisions on top of bad luck can take the fire right outa you.
Thanks guys, i spent the whole day at school ticked off, failed an english test..well, i cant blame that on this morning, i didnt know the crap anyway, but i prolly would have tried instead of turning it in blank:D oh well, ive got to work in the evenings so i think im going to start gettin up at the butt crack of dawn and start shooting. I guess i just got in a hurry this morning, i was hunting a trail so they were just passing by and i didnt have a lot of time to settle down, or get too excited for that matter. Either way, thanks a lot guys.

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

Dude, I am not gonna kick you while you' re down but there are some glaring problems with your setup that you need to address. It sounds like you are getting bad penetration on every shot you take. What kind of broadheads are you shooting and did they group really well in practice?? Good arrow flight?? Sharp blades?

Second of all If you have already lost a wounded animal (possibly 2) and then stick a doe with a questionable shot at best and watch her run a half mile with your arrow in her............What in god' s name made you think sticking another arrow in the young buck 10 seconds later was a good idea is beyond me.

What if the buck ran the opposite direction?? How did you expect to pull off 2 major tracking jobs at one time?

[X(]

I don' t know what to say............except that if you are not gonna change anything about your setup or gameplan on what to do after a shot then you probably should call it a season.

I hope you don' t. Bowhunting is so much fun I don' t want to see anyone get so discouraged that they give up.

Fix your setup and learn what to do before and after a shot........if you already know then just focus and have the self control to do it.

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

like i said, bad decisions...just got a little buck fever i guess, i dont know, im an idiot. I just thought i could find the doe, it ran straight to my house....anyways... I was shooting a Steel Force Stainless Sabertooth 100gr with carbon arrows. Practice with them some and they didnt seem to fly much different than feild points. Probably should have practiced more but its too late for that. I dunno if this has anything to do with it, but i enjoy putting the blame on others, lol, but the 3 deer i lost were the 3 Steelforce broadheads. Even if it doesnt have anything to do with it, im going back to Thunderheads.

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

Did you shoot the same heads at the deer that you practiced on a target with??

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

are these shots from a treestand?remind yourself before shooting to bend at the waist not doing this could be the cause for high shots.

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

i bought a set of three of the steel forces, shot them some at a cheap foam target, prolly 10 shots total. Then went hunting.

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

buck i, like i said, i practiced from a stand, i was only about 10 ft up thismorning and i have practiced up to 30 ft without any problems with shooting high.

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

I don' t care what anyone thinks about this post I' ll stay off if the MODS want me to
But you got to be the a total moron! one sure but 10 seconds later to shoot another you should be ashamed of your self!
Try bowling !![&:]

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

Hang in there, buddy. Take a small break if feel you need it, check over your equipment and kinetic energy, and get back out there. I think you' re a big man to admit something is wrong and being willing to share it, especially with what has been going on in here lately.

I' m sure there are many people here that would be willing to talk with you through e-mails that won' t flame you and will be able to help you out tremondously. I' m sure you know who they are, so I won' t pump their egos for them :D Drop one or two of them an e-mail and I' ll bet you' ll be dropping deer in no time.

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

Ok after you shot the heads into foam did you re-sharpen them?
If not then that would account for the poor penetration.
Remember to always sharpen your broad heads even if they have not been shot and just sat in the quiver for a week or so.

Secondly when hunting from a stand dont aim for the impact point aim for where you want the arrow to exit.

I know you have the bend at the waist down pat all we have to do is to get you to aim for the exit hole;)

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

PA hunter, what point are you trying to make? If it is that you' re an idiot, good job! You succeeded.

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

Don' t give up. You' ve gotten some great advise here. Form from a treestand is different. If you' re in a treestand, your shots may seem on the high side, but with their downward angle, may actually be good shots. You want to aim for the exit side of the deer.

There' s two problems (one is my personal opinion) that I see. First one is practicing with the same heads you hunt with. If you do that, they need to be resharpened before hunting with them. Second, you' ll never, ever, convince me that a serrated head will penetrate as well as a standard head that' s razor sharp. You want to cut, not tear through the animal. Go back to your Thunderheads, or some other quality broadhead and trash those serrated heads.

Also, FOCUS!!!! Pick out the hair you want to hit, and aim for it. It' s easy to aim at the whole animal when that ' fever' starts to build up in you.

Good luck, and I hope you change your mind about giving it up.

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

If you shot 10 shots with each head.....they are dull and that is why you are getting poor penetration.

If you shot 10 shots total with your broadheads then they may not be flying as well as you think.......and they are dull. Practice more and NOT with the heads you are gonna shoot at a deer. Get new blades or new heads and replace them before going hunting.

I have the same broadheads and found them to be a little tricky when lining up vanes to blades........made a difference in flight and accuracy. This is out of a bow that groups 2 other kinds of broadheads like darts.

When Aussie says aim for the exit hole.........he means where you want the arrow to come out on the other side of the deer.

Just wanted to clarify that before a Texas heart shot thread shows up tomorrow afternoon[:o];)

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

Patience ! Something you can' t practice on a fake target. Calm yourself down and prepare for the shot. If something doesn' t feel/seem right don' t take the shot. Let the animal walk.

I' d have passed up that shot at the buck. Considering your emotions shooting that doe and watching her run I' m sure you' re heart was in your throat. It' s very hard to calm yourself that fast and prepare a good accurate shot.

Now, what' s done is done. You can' t take back those shots. You can only build upon the situations and learn from them.

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

Hey that Texas Heart Shot is just as deadly as a double lung shot specially on gobblers from a ground blind[:o][:o]:D:D:D

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

i have to say dont give up...

My first deer with a bow (after 3 seasons of no opportunities):

shoot once, goes over her back.
still there, so i nock another arrow.
draw, the arrow falls because there was dirt in the nock.
deer is STILL there...
nock ANOTHER arrow.
shoot, hit the heart, the arrow is sticking out of her, she is still right in front of me
get ANOTHER arrow...
shoot her again, in the lungs this time...she drops..

Talk about bad luck and one bad shot. Keep at it, keep on practicing...youre doing better than most people. Most people probably practice a week before season and say they are good to go...or just shoot off the ground when they hunt in a tree. Good luck the rest of the season, even if it is with a gun

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

thanks a lot guys. Im going to get out and get some practice in with the thunderheads(i have 2 sets of blades for them) this week.

PA hunter - notice how you are the only one with that opinion, or at least voiced it, other then me. While i take advice from all these NICE folks, why dont you shoot Belle Island an emailor something and get some for urself.....just a suggestion.

Anyways, thanks a ton yall

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

Stick with it man. Not much I can add other than my first sentence. You have recieved some good advise. This is a nice civil thread except for one exception. Hang in there. Jim

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

Have you paper tuned the bow? Do you know how to paper tune? Are your arrows matched or mix and match? If you arrow doesn' t fly straight and has even a little wobble penatration will suffer. Tell us how you set up the bow and the specs ie arrow size, draw weight, etc etc. Lets start there and see if we can' t get you on the right track.

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

I see two problems that you' re facing. One is the dull broadheads that' s already been brought up. I get six broadheads at a time, practice with two and save the other four for the woods. I spin test them to make sure everything is fine but the factory sharpening job is as good as your gonna get unless you get $100 worth of sharpening equipment and REALLY, REALLY know what your doing sharpening. Stick with the factory sharpening.

The second problem is that maybe your getting " Buck Fever" , or in this case just deer fever. If you' re serious about not wounding another animal this is my suggestion. Go hunting again right away....with no arrows. Just take your bow. When you get a deer within range practice drawing on them and setting your pin. Think " ok, now' s the shot" Just being around deer with out trying to get a shot will calm you down for the next time. My first season I was only after bucks (I now know that was a mistake) but I had a lot of does come under my stand that I would practice drawing on.

Stay in there buddy, we don' t want to loose any bowhunters but we don' t want to wound animals either. I feel your pain, we' ve all been there.

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

MOBH
Some good advice given. Hang in there. I went through the exact same thing many years ago. The first 3 deer I shot at I missed. Thenn 3 out of the first 6 deer I actually shot (over 4 seasons), I lost. Mostly because I was very green...and had no one to teach me or tell me right from wrong at all. Not to mention setup and tuning a bow? What was that??? Trailing bowshot deer? You shoot, gather your stuff up, and start tracking...right? [:' (] It was bad. Regardless, I know exactly how you feel....I' ve been there. It sucks. The only advice I can give you is to keep at it. Tune your bow, practice alot, and shoot quality broadheadswhich those were...it wasn' t the heads fault, all though they probably could have been sharper). Do your best to make a good shot every time...slow down, calm down, and think before every shot. Pick an exact spot on the deer...not just the vital area. You should know exactly where you are aiming and expecting you shot to go.

I know how buck fever can grip you and make you do things you never thought you' d do in a million years. I did it. One thing that helped me alot....I spent the majority of one season practicing drawing on deer without shooting at them at all. Draw, anchor, aim, then say to myself (got ya) and let down. It boosted my confidence big time(not to mention helping my skills) and I began making good clean kills the majority of the time after that. The other thing this helped with was the buck fever. Inside, I knew I wasn' t gonna shoot...so the fever wasn' t near as bad. It' s a mental game...it' s up to you whether you choose to beat it, or be beat. Maybe a break for now would be good for you...but I wouldn' t give up for good. There is an overwhelming amount of info available for today' s new hunters. Take advantage of it as much as you can. Back when I started, the only folks I had to turn to were a couple buddies of mine that were greener than I was.
Good luck :)

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

Mossy Oak, I started bowhunting when i was around 16 or 17 (25 years ago). The first 2 bucks that came bye, i shot so far over them i think my arrows are still in the air. Rather than give up, i tried to spend more time in the woods around deer, and started shooting the grey tree rats. This helped me get comfortable with shooting live game, and also helped in my accuracy. Don' t give up just yet.:D:D

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

Arthur P and Danny45 have given you the best advice on here that I can see. Shooting at the high 10 ring on a Mckenzie is gonna mess with your mind out in the woods, without you even knowing it. Sounds dumb, but Arthur P is correct.
You also gotta learn and program youself to pick a hair/spot out on that deer when you shoot at it Like Danny45 said. Stick a small paper plate on a target and teach yourself to hit a specific spot on that plate, over and over again. Shooting at little 1" dots does not do much for shooting at a 8" or so area on a deer. The spot is alreay on the target, easy to focus on. Where is that spot on a deer? YOU gotta put it there man. You can' t quit. If your equipment is in good working order, fixing your head is next. Just hunt, you don' t have to shoot, just watch the animals. Practice picking that hair for that shot. Let ' em walk. Do it until you' re comfortable looking at them. I went through the " loosing deer" phase. Every bowhunter does. Working through it is what makes you a better hunter. There is a difference between a hunter and a target shooter. It' s up to you make that transition.

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

Everyone wounds deer!!! Some wounds lead to the quick death of the animal others are more slow to bring the reaper. Some never do the intended damage and the deer lives. Unless you are shooting the deer with a shotgun in the head and cleaving the brain from the skull then for the most part aren' t all bow hunters " wounding the animal?" If it runs fifty yards and piles up, wasn' t it wounded from the time of impact until the time of death?

BOTTOM LINE- If you do not practice with your bow. If you do not become automatic with your bow. If you can not accurately guess yardages. If you can not field judge deer. You need to hold off on hunting until you acquire knowledge. Compare it to getting a drivers license. you do not just walk in and grab your pre-printed license and go drive a car. You go first with someone who is experienced. You gain knowledge on the subject. Practice and practice more before handing alone a life taking object.

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

Did he ever answer if he sharpend the broadhead
after practising with it!!?

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

You might consider switching broadheads if for no other reason than your confidence in them, you dont want to think about that when you pull back on one.

Brian

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

Mossy:

Here is my covered dish for the feast. :)

It is what you are not saying rather than what you are saying, that does not allow an immediate narrowing down of what your problem{s) might/could be. You have briefly indicated that you are shooting accurately, but you did not state so in a manner that leaves me with a clear understanding as to how accurate you are actually shooting and how consistent your accuracy is and how proficient you are at tuning your gear.

What strikes me about your dilemma, is that the main problems you say you are having, seems to be consistent and with similar results. Mainly, you keep hitting high and your arrow penetration is bad. A high hit could be a result of one cause or a combination of causes

e.g., not bending at the waist, depth perception problem, aiming at the deer rather than picking spot, problem with properly estimating distance, incorrect visual misperception of what the distance actually is vs. average size of deer, early release, improper draw length, spine issue, panic, etc, etc, etc. and all of the above.

IMO, aiming at the deer and not picking a spot may be the leading cause of missed or off POA shots for most new shooters and shooters who have not yet had many deer in front of them

As for the penetration problem alone, blades that are not sharp are contribuatable, however, in your case(s) as you have described, I doubt the penetration problem is primarily caused by broadheads that may have lost their edge. By your description, you seem to be getting into bone and dense muscle in (normally) non-fatal areas. A dull blade does not cause missed or off POA shots.

Although some shooters believe that a quality broadhead that is sharp should always be able to " bust" through any bone and muscle or the head is not a good head, the truth is; regardless of how sharp the head is or the quality of the head, large and dense bone and dense muscle can oftentimes and unexpectedly stop the head' s penetration dead in its tracks. How stable the flight shaft is (porpoising, fishtailing) and the angle of entry (tail high, low, right, or left) can (also) greatly and rapidly shed off much of the penetration energy.

What is your setup e.g., bow, draw-weight, draw-length, shafts, etc?

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

*Update* Thanks Rack-attack my mistake.:D So I guess it' s PaHunter who is doing the bashing. PaHunter, there is no need for comments like that. You are doing nothing to help a fellow hunter who is here pleading for help.

Mossy_Oak, I hear ya man and I appreciate you being very open and honest about your problems. I don' t think you are an idot at all. The very first and hardest part of learning is admiting that you are making mistakes and want to learn and improve. You are doing all of that and if taking some time off from bowhunting it what you need, that' s ok. I think you have gotten some great advice form most of the guys here and they are much more knowledgable about bowhunting than I am. I do think that dull blades on your broadheads could be part of your problem as others have said. Good luck and listen to the fellas here who are trying to help ya out. Ignore the bashers.

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

TX - I think you misunderstood

Belle was speaking to Pa Hunter because he slamed Mossy

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

My gratitude cannot be expressed in words guys. I shot some today, changed my setup a little bit and worst of all...spent more money! :D I went with a box of Thunderhead 100g' s. They come with 6 heads, so i have some to practice with. And i bought a new deer grunt(needed one anyway, just got it while i was there) I figure i can practice with it when i go out and sit with no arrows. heh, sounds funny. The feild i hunt here, i have my stand in a spot where the deer just pass by so im going to get my climber in a tree farther down to where i can watch the deer for longer. (without them just jogging by) As far as tuning my bow, I have yet to paper tune it, but just eyeballed it, there is some slight wiggle but nothing REAL bad. I saw a website that told all how to paper tune but i lost it and dont really remember everything about it. I plan to paper tune before i shoot at another deer if someone can either tell me how or find that link for me, it was like an Easton website i think. As far as my setup goes.... Browning ambush 80, 60lb, 28-29" draw, whisker biscuit, 28" Carbon Fury arrows with 100 grain tips. Hmm...have i left anything out? Thanks a ton guys, you' ve helped out a lot. My brother gets home next week from Air Force basic/technical training(he' s been gone sine june 11) And since june 11 ive been looking foreward to hunting with him when he got back. Looks like i will just be the tracking/hauling buddy:D One more question, wrinkled fletching vanes, what to do about them? I tried some hot water and it helped straighten them a little, is there anything else that will fix them? Thank x 1000000000 yall. Looks like im going to be leaving my arrows at home and taking some binocs and maybe a camera. again, many thanks.

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

Mossy:

What size of shaft are you shooting? Do not just blame the heads and believe that changing heads will be a quick fix.

In addition, that " ...slight wiggle" you mentioned is an indicator something is going on that needs corrected and should not be lived with. That slight wiggle can become something greater if the flight problem is compounded by another problem.

You could have a shaft spine problem and/or a bad vane contact problem. Incorrect nock height can also cause erratic arrow flight if the nock end is striking the shelf, or in your case, the rim of your " WB." Bad torquing should also be considered. You might try shooting off a standard rest to see all of some of the flight irregularity disappears and your accuracy and grouping improves.

PS: Dump the vanes, their shot! Install new vanes on your shafts…5" .

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

thanks again guys, going to go to a friends tomorrow and he is going to help me get everything in order. again, many thanks

RE: Letter of Resignition?
 

I' m thinking two things when I first read the post:
1. Not picking a spot.
2. Shooting high because in elevated position.

But if you have not paper tuned yet?[:' (] But that' s OK. Test your broadheads and compare them to field point groupings and adjust your arrow rest until the two groups come together. The reson is because broadheads are much more susceptable to minor tuning inacuracies. If they group to the right of the field points, you can move your arrow rest left just slightly and they will move left towards the field points even though the field point groups seem to be in the same place.

Sounds like you are having a bad year. But you seem to be getting alot of shot opportunities. Your hitting to high and too forward tho if it' s in the shoulder. Aim lower a few inches behind the elbow or somewhere in that area. And pick a spot. A shadow, spot of fur, or whatever. That will really help to out in shooting game because there is no bullzye to aim for otherwise.