wolfen68 - Good question. Of course theres always ifs in shooting at even a broadside, head down animal at a known 20 yards distance - things sometimes go wrong. What constitutes iffy ? Thats what this topic was and is about.

Quartering to shots mean several things. First the deer is still coming in. Second, its agreed that its not the best shot in the world, although people take it.

Is it unethical to take a shot like the one pictured ? I don't think so if you're a darn good shot at a known distance. I say that now because of all the posts on this here and on the Leatherwall. Its a killing shot for sure, I just know that a few inches high, low, left or right and you gotta a long tracking job ahead of you. In that, you ARE taking more of a chance than you need to. NBEF suggests waiting, and I have to agree.

hoytusa10 - You are wrong. I have a few hunting seasons under my belt bowhunting, I have shot several deer, I know what is and isn't a good killing shot - and 2 years ago I passed on this very shot on a 150 P&Y class 10 pointer. I don't regret it a bit - so you are very wrong in your assumption.

No book, just a lot of time the past couple of days to post and ponder.

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Hell no! I have been bowhunting for 13 yrs. I have taken a decent amount of deer during that time but usually small bucks and does. Two years ago I had seen a 130 class 6 point. The first time I saw him within bow range I took a less than ideal shot b/c I got caught in the moment. Thankfully the shot did not kill the deer (I have seen him since). It made me sick to think at what I had done. Because I took that shot I never got another opportunity for a "true" shot. This year I passed up my biggest bow kill (120 8pt) 3 times within 30 yds because the shot wasn't ideal and I didn't want to take another chance of wounding and not recovering.

Sorry to drag on but it bothers me when people take marginal shots. Here is another situation. A friend used his buck tag on a small not-typ 10 pt this year. While hunting for a doe he got on video tape a buck of a lifetime. 12 pts at least 180. Just huge. He had already used his buck tag so he went and told his father in law where the buck had entered a small strip of woods. The father in law goes to the strip of woods, climbs into his stand, pulls his bow up. When he gets his bow up the buck is standing 35 yds in front of him. He takes a shot. They tracked for 2 days and over 2 miles. They never found the deer. When asked why he took the shot he said "you've got to take the shot that is presented to you". That's bull! If he would have waited longer or for another day a good shot could have presented itself or he could be gearing up this off-season for a shot on that buck next year. But because he took a marginal shot that deer has probably been eaten by yotes and the antlers by mice. Bowhunting is not just about getting a shot it's about enjoying the outdoors and waiting/allowing that perfect shot to present itself. IMO

Stealthy Cat.... MY IF's as you call them were qualifiers. Just like yours would be on a perfect broadside shot at 80 yards. The IF would be "If he's at 30 or less". I'm sorry, but I don't hold the DEER to God like status that some do. If I think I can make the shot and I want to.... I'll take it. Your idea of what is ethical should be confined to your abilities and equipment. What I think is a legitimate shot I'm going to take if I want to. My shot may be something you're totally uncomfortable with. I know what the "BOOK" says for hunter safety. I am a qualified IBEF instructor.

My "IFS" on "Risky" shots as you call them are my choice, my ifs and my risk. If I can make the shot I take it. The question was referring to the Zaft shot (risky or not). I wasn't there. If you'll notice in my original reply to this question I didn't say he shouldn't have taken the shot. I said I've taken similar shots at closer ranges. But, I wasn't there. His idea of a fast walk and mine may be two entirely different things.

Do I support risky shots? Not for me. Do I take walking shots... Yup.. within reason "for ME". Do I have to have the world in perfect motionless harmony to dare take a shot on a deer? NOPE. Will I take a shot you might find risky if not down right immoral? Yup... when and if I think I'll make it. Does the world standstill if my shot is less than perfect. It's an absolute bummer. In 31 years of bowhunting a couple things have happened. But, for the most part it's been a great ride, I've got a lot of game, and I'm always ready for the shot. I will not limit myself to someone elses idea of what is an "Ethical shot" for me.

You bet you there are IFS. It's not black and white... one rule fits all. If you want that it has to be a law, not your feelings. Incidently... I was one of the FEW who said they would probably wait on 1,3 and 4 for a better shot to present itself. The only shot I knew for sure, right now, was number 2. I see no reason to suspect a better shot won't happen. NOW .... if I thought that was all I was going to get... number 1 catches an arrow now at close range.

Edited by - davidmil on 02/02/2002 13:32:09

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Hi ya'll, I'm new to this BB' glad to be amongst people who enjoy hunting as much as I do. Hey let me tell you what happened to me this past Nov. Iam a seasoned hunter been hunting 29yrs and will not risk a bad shot on any deer regardless of size or sex. Well this last Nov. I had a 130 class buck at 30 yards and would not take the shot because he was quartering to me. Well it paid off for me because I had a larger buck come in from the other direction and I ended up harvesting a 153 5/8 P&Y buck.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

BBHPete...<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>...you mean there are guys in PA that will pass up a 135 class buck for something bigger??? Alt must be doing his job well then. My impression from Kansas was that there were very few 135 class bucks in PA, let alone 150 class bucks!!! Good for you!

wtg Pete! I would rather go home with nothing then wonder if I kilt or wounded any day because of taking a low % shot just because of antler sizes! Dave is partiall right, its up to the individuals and there skills, but most folks are smart enough to let the critters pass and take the higher % shots then to risk wounding, not nessicarly perfectly broadside or quartering away! But yet we dont shoot for the hind quarters hoping to hit a 1/2&quot; diameter artery either!

wolfen68, the buck I was speaking of I got in N.Y., but I do pass up small bucks in Pa. also. Don't get me wrong I would have shot the 130 class buck if he would have presented an ethical shot. But I'm glad he did'nt.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

davidmil - AHH, another can of worms we open. So by your thinking, If I take gut and ham and head shot at deer from 10 to 50 yards, if I feel comfortable taking them, then thats okay with you ? If it is, then thats sad, because we as bowhunters live and die as an overall group - and the stats that animal rights groups throw around is not all that far from the truth. You seem to actually advocate the &quot;any shot is better than no shot&quot; theme, simply by justifying it with a &quot;if it feels good to you&quot; attitude.

I don't buy that, I don't think I ever will. I can honestly say that Zaft took a horrible shot. Why ? Duplicate it davidmil, put a McKensie on rollers and wheel that sucker by at a fast walk at around 30 yards. Give 10 bowhunters each a shot and you tell me all 10 are going to hit ? Then set up a 20 yards broadside, standing still target. I betcha all 10 average bowhunters hit the kill zone. You tell me which is more ethical, which is the better shots, which would result in more kills/less wounds ?

As for this quartering to shot - I still think its a killing shot, but I think the lost deer would be way above normal as would the wounding rate compared to broadside or quartering away. You've read the people who've lost deer quartering to, and the people who've taken them. You tell me the stats and if its acceptable. I say its not, too many iffs, too many wounded deer.