RE: i lost a buck this past weekend
 

No idea what you mean.

Yea, you' re right........there is no way someone could learn the immense and overwhelming amount of knowledge it takes to bowhunt in only 3 years. You need to get hooked on phonics if you learn that slow man ;)

So how many years or how many kills or wounded/lost do you have to have under your belt before you can tell someone they were wrong for pushing a poorly hit deer to the coyotes??

Been shooting almost 2 years now.....at least 30 arrows a session......couple days a week. Shot a lot of 3D last year and a 3D indoor league this year. groups open up to 3-4" at 35 yards. Won' t shoot at an animal over 20.....25 if ideal with the new patriot.

got out about 22 out of the 30 day season last year. Should be similar this year.


Obviously I only tracked one of my own shot deer.......was on tracks for my brother, 1 friend and a farmer who was a friend of a hunting buddy I didn' t know. So 3 last year and i really don' t know how many in my life. Some I was too young to care really about learning but my dad' s lifelong friend took me on some tracks with him that blew my mind. He could find a needle in a stack of needles. He didn' t even need blood. Learned a lot from him yet I am no where near the tracker he is......maybe never will be.

I' m sorry I didn' t see the sign on the door that said I wasn' t allowed to speak until I have killed or wounded a certain number of deer. I thought we were all here to learn and become better hunters. If I have said something wrong or incorrect about the sport please let me know so I don' t say it again. I think your should be more concerned with people getting the right information so they don' t repeat the same mistakes over and over........and less worried about who they are getting the information from. Who cares who says it???......as long as it is correct.

The minute people start believing that wounding and losing a deer due to your own ignorance or lack of skill is not wrong the sport of hunting will suffer greatly.

If you are man enough to pull the trigger on your release or gun then you should be man enough to accept the fact that you were not prepared to do so. This forum is full of people who have the nerve to act shocked and disappointed when someone points out that they screwed up. Awful lot of sensitive fellas for a hunting crowd.

Funny how when you talk down to someone it doesn' t bother you ;)

I still laugh that you base your level of respect for someones bowhunting knowledge by the number of years they have hunted or deer they have killed or wounded and lost. I know a hundred guys that have been bowhunting longer then me and killed more deer then you........yet they would look at you like you were speaking Chinese if you started talking about stuff like KE, tuning, FOC, grip styles, follow through, back tension, penetration, mech vs fixed. Yea......you' re probably right, those guys should be the only ones allowed to speak because they have been holding a bow longer. Good luck with the info you get from those guys.


Since you must be the authority on when someone is allowed to speak (gee I thought this was an open public forum [:o]) Be sure and let me know when that day comes. I will continually email you updated archery and bowhunting resumes for your review if you wish ;)

Your blubbering almost seems noble........except for the fact that your personal attacks are too much of a focal point in your posts. I could see your point if I was giving bad or incorrect advice or misleading a hunter do to my lack of experience or knowledge but that simply is not the case. Your problem is with the messenger........not the message, and that is sad. Could it be that when you think back to your early days with a bow that you knew so little that you find it hard to accept that someone else does??

A recent thread was started by a guy named VenisonChef. He couldn' t figure out why his and his sons shots on deer got such bad penetration. He described his setup and it was not putting out the KE he needed to shoot the mechanical heads he and his son were. I pointed this out to him and also told him (not sugar coated) that he should know his setups capabilities BEFORE shooting at live game. He agreed and was eager to learn more about KE and what he can do to improve his chance for a quicker and easier kill. I directed him to bowjackson and he is off on a learning adventure as deep as he wants to take it.

He has killed more deer then me......shot more then me......lost more then me......and hunted more then me. Yet somehow I was able to help him out and also make a point about not practicing on live game that he completely agreed with and was very thankful for the help and info. I guess I should have kept my mouth shut and let him keep getting 2" of penetration with spitfires out of a bow pushing 40lbs KE.............I mean how could I possibly help him being so " green" and all right?

RE: i lost a buck this past weekend
 

Has nothing to do with it. I practiced long and hard to make that shot. I think of it as a reminder of the rewards of hard work and good practice.


Sorry to tell you dude but the head entered the left side behind the shoulder from 25 feet up, punched out the left lung and through the heart and out the apex of the right lung. I got both lungs and the heart and have the pictures to prove it. I guess your experience was wrong.

RE: i lost a buck this past weekend
 

As soon as I get a replacement pic from this year I will update ;)

RE: i lost a buck this past weekend
 

It' s even funnier when you have to show your credentials before telling someone they pushed a deer they should have let bed down.

Ethics police=bad.......credability police=good???

LOLOLOL

RE: i lost a buck this past weekend
 

LOL you have got to be kidding. I never said I was AIMING at the heart. I hit it........cool pic, end of story. If punching out both lungs and the heart is an almost miss...........I will take an almost miss any day of the week ;)

RE: i lost a buck this past weekend
 

Nothing personal taken.........and YES I did. With all the resources available to hunters today I find it shocking that anyone could or would enter the woods without knowing what they should do in case everything doesn' t go perfect. IMO that is a complete lack of respect for the animals we hunt among other things.


It will never work if you don' t even know what " it" is in the first place.


quote:

I just think sugar coated comments and pats on the back are a waste of time when a good kick in the pants is what someone needs. The day I need it I hope someone gives it to me.

I hesitate to even point out a flaw or two in your own tracking story but because you chastised deer hunter 21 so eagerly I will just mention a couple.

quote:

I started marking the drops with toilet paper on twigs so I could predict his path. ......quote:

Found another drop about 10 feet in a new direction...

Although marking blood drops with toilet paper tells you where the animal has been it cannot " predict" where it will go, as your own statement verifies.

WRONG.......when you stand back and look along a path of paper on twigs it makes the path and direction easier to predict. You can then narrow your probable blood search by knowing his next step came somewhere in front of the marked trail........combine this with tracks in the ground or tossed up leaves and it may not be perfect but it sure helps point the way.


quote:

There is a gorge where I hunt and if a deer is pushed he is a gonna head for the gorge for sure. That means a sure lost animal.


Animals are recovered from gorges every year, you just have to be able to track them. A " details kind of guy" would know that.

WRONG.......You don' t know where I hunt. You can' t get out of the gorge.......it is literally about a 70 degree slope. Unfortunately I know guys who have tracked deer to that gorge and not one was ever seen again. I know 2 locals that tried to repel down to follow a deer and had to be rescued by the fire dept [:o] It just ain' t happenin'

quote:

The track was tougher because of the non passthrough then it was because of the rain.

A pass through does not guarantee a good blood trail and like wise a non pass through may or may not yield a good blood trail.

True, but in my case of a steeper hit I knew that the entry wound would not produce much blood because the chest would have to be almost full for it to start flowing and even then would soak into much of the hair as it rolled down the body. Now if I had gotten that lower hole to open up I would have been more confident in a quick retrieval.

quote:

this forum is full of " experienced" guys you can learn from. Many can be found starting threads just like this when their luck runs out and the deer they just shot doesn' t fall right in front of them.

While I do agree that this cyber environment is ripe for the so called " experts" to spout off their " knowledge" I believe that the truly experienced guys can find their way around, if you know what I mean. They will know what to do when the deer " doesn' t fall right in front of them"

I think many guys mistake time in the woods as a substitute for a solid foundation of knowledge on what to do in different situations........then when it hits the fan they end up here because they " don' t know what went wrong" especially because " they have shot many deer with a bow before" Experience is great, don' t get me wrong........it is obviously only a part of the puzzle though.

quote:

Does my story of my bow kill sound like someone who doesn' t know what they were doing or just got lucky??

Hard to tell to be honest. It could be one or the other, both, or none of the above. When you have only done it once, you don' t have much to go on.

Again please don' t think this is personal. If your honest with yourself you will see what others are trying to point out in a diplomatic way. You obviously do possess some knowledge but on the experience side of the ledger you are still an infant. Nothing wrong with that as long as you keep things in perspective.[/quote]

I know exactly what they are saying..........I just see experience as one of a great many tools you need to take into the woods. Some here seem to place the highest of all importance on " time in" when it clearly has no corelation to the success, prominence or credibility of a hunter. Just another link in the chain.

RE: i lost a buck this past weekend
 

atlasman, you sound like a richard craniam. stop trying to play all high and mighty!

RE: i lost a buck this past weekend
 

Atlasman I am not saying all that you have said is necessarily wrong. Many of your points are valid but the way you have presented it shows a wrong attitude in my opinion. I haven' t heard anyone say you have to kill X number of deer before you can pass an opinion.

It is just that when you deliver such a scathing post and at the same time possess very little authority in the realm of experience to back it up, it does make one wonder. You see, the farther I go in life, it always amazes me how little I know. When you think you have seen it all, something will always jump up and surprise you. One likes to be prepared for everything when " everything doesn' t go perfect" , but it just isn' t possible.

Take your toilet paper marking trail for example. I used your own words. You said it would help you " predict its path" . By your own admission it didn' t. You found blood " in a new direction" . Then you rebuttle my point by simply writing in capital letters the word " WRONG" as if that is game, set, and match. Of course you feebly say that if you stand behind the paper trail and combine that with tracks...tossed up leaves...you know " his next step came somewhere in front of the marked trail" . Has that been your experience, or does it just sound good? Many many trails I have followed the ground has been to hard to leave tracks, and there were no leaves to have up turned. Further, I would love to see what happens when your laying your paper trail after the deer has back tracked and the blood you are looking at is the animal both going and coming. At that point there is no way for the next step to be " somewhere in front of the marked trail" . These are very real situations that I have been in more than once.

Concerning your Gorge issue. If the slope is that steep, until deer learn how to fly, nine times out of ten they are not going down it in a rush. Their survival instinct in most cases would keep them from attempting such a hazardous route.

As far as the high hit goes it isn' t worth arguing over. However I will say this, I have had a good number of deer blow blood out of a hit high on the rib cage, much like a blow hole on a whale. But that doesn' t happen everytime.

Before I had kids I read everything I could on parenting. I had all kinds of great theories on how I was going to handle problems and raise them properly. I felt like I was thoroughly prepared. Guess what, if I may respectfully borrow your word---WRONG! I lacked the practical experience to be the parent I wanted to be. Fortunately for all of us I learned to adapt and survive and eventually thrive, but it didn' t happen over night.

Good luck. :)

RE: i lost a buck this past weekend
 

Ok. Ive read some exaustingly long posts. I agree that bowhunters must develop skills to become a good " bowhunter" .

But honestly, everybody has to start out somewhere. I' m surely not the greatest shot, or the best tracker, but I sure do love the sport, and I learn more and more everyday I' m out in the woods.

I have good few years of hunting with a bow under my belt, and guess what! I still make mistakes! Everybody does! If we didn' t make mistakes, we wouldn' t learn from them.

Some of us didn' t have the mentors of this sport readilly available to us when we started out. (Thank goodness for this forum. It provides alot of " green" hunters with alot of information). You can' t expect everybody that wants to bowhunt to stay out of the woods until they are the best trackers or the best shots. You can' t be a good shot unless you practice. ergo, you can' t be the best tracker until you get a chance to track a hit animal.

You can hear the ethics, read the posts about proper shooting form, learn about Kinetic energy, learn how to take great pictures, listen to great stories and meet some great people, but there are some things that you need to see, feel, and experience for yourself, in the field. What i' m trying to say is, you can read a book on how to drive, but that can' t qualify you to be a race car driver. You have to get behind the wheel and grind some gears before you get a comfortable hold on it.

I mean, c' mon, I' m sure many here can look back and think about their first couple years in the sport and remember some great learning experiences. Rushed shots, too much movement, falling asleep, no scent control, not knowing how to hunt the wind... etc..

Life is a learning experience, people make mistakes (except for maybe my wife ;)), and we have to learn from them. One hunter posting his misfortune may just save another hunter from making the same mistake, maybe not. I still have to calm myself down while at full-draw. Those little fibre optic sites love to dance when deer come around.

So, let me cut out the fluff and give a condensed version: Learning is what makes a Bowhunter. That' s a lesson in itself.

exausted from listening to badgering,
-BJ

RE: i lost a buck this past weekend
 

Specifically regarding archery and bowhunting, all of us start at ground level. There is no rule that requires the novice to stay in line and talk very little until a more experienced person grants permission for the novice to talk and give certain advice.

In fact, new ideas and suggestions from a novice should always be considered. Because the beginner and less experienced are not yet weighed down with entrenched ways and the unconscious bad habits that a seasoned person may acquire but adjust to, the novice often sees things much clearly, and new and better ways are born.

However, when it is obvious that someone has gotten too big for their britches to soon, especially when a person oversteps their current qualifications and unreasonably belittles someone in public, there is nothing wrong with chastising them in public.

Such person invites that he or she be reminded, that although he or she has a right to speak and that all of their ideas and advice are NOT meaningless because of less time-in-grade, they have greatly exceeded their qualifications.