The dead Spot?
10-02-2003, 02:50 PM
#31
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Sturgis, SD
Posts: 1,983
RE: The dead Spot?
CBM, the only way that hit would be fatal would be from infection. There are no major arteries above the spine, only muscle. The majority of deer hit there would likely survive. I would say the vast majority of " dead space" shots are actually above the spine. Unless you have a background in anatomy most people would be surprised how low the actual chest cavity is.
Try this. When you kill a deer this fall get a tapemeasure and measure the distance from the bottom of the spine to the sternum inside the chest cavity. Now put your tape on the outside of the deer and measure the width of the chest from top to bottom. I' ll bet you will be surprised.
Try this. When you kill a deer this fall get a tapemeasure and measure the distance from the bottom of the spine to the sternum inside the chest cavity. Now put your tape on the outside of the deer and measure the width of the chest from top to bottom. I' ll bet you will be surprised.
10-02-2003, 03:10 PM
#32
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SC USA
Posts: 1,434
RE: The dead Spot?
A big thanks Mez !!
In my case anyway......when I was saying below the spine and above the lungs .....I really meant above the ribcage and below the top of the back.....mistakingly thinking that the spine is higher than it actually is !!
But that also means there is a " dead spot" (probably not more than a few inches above a perfect shot) that when a deer ducks and you hit high through the backstraps and through the deer at an angle that doesn' t take out the opposite lung .......then there is a good chance that deer will live to see many more days !!
Since there is a dead spot.......the guilty shooter' s just need to learn not to say below the spine and above the lungs !!
In my case anyway......when I was saying below the spine and above the lungs .....I really meant above the ribcage and below the top of the back.....mistakingly thinking that the spine is higher than it actually is !!
But that also means there is a " dead spot" (probably not more than a few inches above a perfect shot) that when a deer ducks and you hit high through the backstraps and through the deer at an angle that doesn' t take out the opposite lung .......then there is a good chance that deer will live to see many more days !!
Since there is a dead spot.......the guilty shooter' s just need to learn not to say below the spine and above the lungs !!
10-02-2003, 03:29 PM
#33
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Minnesota (Heaven)
Posts: 98
RE: The dead Spot?
This is only my second year of bowhunting but I do believe there is a dead spot above the lungs and below the spine. My dad hit it once and by the sounds of it his hunt was just like yours. The same thing happened to me last year and it would have been my first deer but It never went down. We tracked it about 300 yards and it stopped bleeding. So we just followed the tracks because it was really muddy and found out she eventually slowed down and came back to my stand after we left to track her![:@]
10-02-2003, 03:36 PM
#34
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Sturgis, SD
Posts: 1,983
RE: The dead Spot?
CBM, correct there most certainly is a dead spot from the top of the back to the spine. That is no mans land and you won' t kill one hitting it there. " Within" the thoracic cavity there is no dead spot.
10-02-2003, 06:31 PM
#35
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kilauea Hawaii Hawaii, USA
Posts: 155
RE: The dead Spot?
It seems to me that you hit over the spine. In fact I' m absolutely 100% sure you hit the backstrap. It is not fatal and often bleeds enough for a blood trail. It will leave little or no blood on the shaft and often will not make a complete pass through for whatever resons. There is bone in the backstrap which sometimes causes it to make a loud smack sound. Meat and grease will be on the fletching and shaft. The deer should survive but there is always chance of infection.
Don' t worry, it happenes.
As for the dead spot, c903 and Mez are right. Anyone who knows anything about anatomy knows that the body cavity is completely air tight unless punctured. As stated, it needs to be air tight for resperation to occur. Although it can also occur without being air tight. I did not know each lung was inside it' s own membrane until I read this. That explains one lung hits. I do autopsies on each animal I kill to determine the cause of death. Everyone should do it. There is a small amount of fluid in the chest cavity but definately no air. No dead spot between the lungs and spine. Therefore that definition of the dead spot is false.
That' s not to say there is no dead spot. There are low percentage areas of the lungs where you could hit with an arrow and the animal might survive allthough it will usually be fatal. Combine that with a dull broadhead and the chances of an animal surviving marginal hit to the lungs in much higher.
Dull broadheads (especially 2-blades) can be slipped between organs. Even over the lungs and under the spine while cause hardly any damage other than scratches and shallow cuts. That could also explain the dead spot.
There can even be fluke occurences where an animal survives a double lung hit for whatever reasons. Somehow it just toughed it out.
Things like that sometimes happen but there is no dead spot.
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Buckshot, when you exhale, because of the vaccum, your chest shrinks. Try it out. Take a deep breath and notice how your rib cage expands. What kind of blood was it? If you really hit the rib cage and lungs, then your arrow should have easily passes all the way through unless your broadheads were extremely dull. If you hit lungs, there would have been bubbles in the blood. No, you probably hit in front of the lungs and above the spine. Sometimes they aren' t where you expect. She must have had her legs forward or something. But there is no part of the chest that you can hit without hitting vitals. Unless a dull broadhead somehow slipped between the organs without doing much damage but at most treestand angles, that is unlikely.
PAHUNTER21, ??in front of the intestines is the stomach. In front and above the stomach is the liver. It fron' t the liver and between the lungs is a membrane called the diaphram which separates the chest and abdomental cavities. Hair tells you that you hit it but to have no blood? You probably hit meat and anothing else.
Don' t worry, it happenes.
As for the dead spot, c903 and Mez are right. Anyone who knows anything about anatomy knows that the body cavity is completely air tight unless punctured. As stated, it needs to be air tight for resperation to occur. Although it can also occur without being air tight. I did not know each lung was inside it' s own membrane until I read this. That explains one lung hits. I do autopsies on each animal I kill to determine the cause of death. Everyone should do it. There is a small amount of fluid in the chest cavity but definately no air. No dead spot between the lungs and spine. Therefore that definition of the dead spot is false.
That' s not to say there is no dead spot. There are low percentage areas of the lungs where you could hit with an arrow and the animal might survive allthough it will usually be fatal. Combine that with a dull broadhead and the chances of an animal surviving marginal hit to the lungs in much higher.
Dull broadheads (especially 2-blades) can be slipped between organs. Even over the lungs and under the spine while cause hardly any damage other than scratches and shallow cuts. That could also explain the dead spot.
There can even be fluke occurences where an animal survives a double lung hit for whatever reasons. Somehow it just toughed it out.
Things like that sometimes happen but there is no dead spot.
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Buckshot, when you exhale, because of the vaccum, your chest shrinks. Try it out. Take a deep breath and notice how your rib cage expands. What kind of blood was it? If you really hit the rib cage and lungs, then your arrow should have easily passes all the way through unless your broadheads were extremely dull. If you hit lungs, there would have been bubbles in the blood. No, you probably hit in front of the lungs and above the spine. Sometimes they aren' t where you expect. She must have had her legs forward or something. But there is no part of the chest that you can hit without hitting vitals. Unless a dull broadhead somehow slipped between the organs without doing much damage but at most treestand angles, that is unlikely.
PAHUNTER21, ??in front of the intestines is the stomach. In front and above the stomach is the liver. It fron' t the liver and between the lungs is a membrane called the diaphram which separates the chest and abdomental cavities. Hair tells you that you hit it but to have no blood? You probably hit meat and anothing else.
10-02-2003, 06:49 PM
#36
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Houston, Texas. Member since 04/05/2
Posts: 766
RE: The dead Spot?
No Red, Sorry if My grammar is off a bit, the shot I made was a very slight quartered angle away from me, not towards me!
These are the three facts that I will take to bowhunters heaven with me.
1. The arrow entered very close in my recollection to the area in Browning,s picture. I know this because she was no more than 15 yards from me as she egressed into the woods at a slow " gallop" I very distinctly saw my red fletched arrow sticking out high behind the Shoulder
2. I could not find not one speck of blood on the arrow.The Snyper blades were jammed with what had to be muscle. Their was a " milky" film present...No Blood.
3. Blood loss was so minamal that I have to commend myself on my tracking skills to have taken it to over 200 yards before I lost the trail completly.
It would seem the enigma of the ' dead" spot shall remain just that...a enigma! Lesson learned? I will def train my aim much lower the next time. I have made my share of mistakes and havent repeated them yet, this incident has just made me a little more deadlier the next time ...The 12 inch pie plate area that I was trained would take down any deer no longer applies to my tactics
These are the three facts that I will take to bowhunters heaven with me.
1. The arrow entered very close in my recollection to the area in Browning,s picture. I know this because she was no more than 15 yards from me as she egressed into the woods at a slow " gallop" I very distinctly saw my red fletched arrow sticking out high behind the Shoulder
2. I could not find not one speck of blood on the arrow.The Snyper blades were jammed with what had to be muscle. Their was a " milky" film present...No Blood.
3. Blood loss was so minamal that I have to commend myself on my tracking skills to have taken it to over 200 yards before I lost the trail completly.
It would seem the enigma of the ' dead" spot shall remain just that...a enigma! Lesson learned? I will def train my aim much lower the next time. I have made my share of mistakes and havent repeated them yet, this incident has just made me a little more deadlier the next time ...The 12 inch pie plate area that I was trained would take down any deer no longer applies to my tactics
10-02-2003, 07:41 PM
#37
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jacksonville Fl USA
Posts: 533
RE: The dead Spot?
Hey guys.... I wanted to make a comment - Could this ' Dead Zone' that some have seen..... I guess while cleaning deer be due to the fact that the lungs are deflated when the animal is dead ?
I am not saying anyone here is wrong - only brainstorming..... The science of it tells me the vets are right..... BUT the people who have cleaned animals also tells me something.... But it is a very interesting topic..... It does make you wonder.....
Id like to see someone run one of those high tech cameras in a deers body cavity to see ! Any vets want to try for us ?? (just kiddin guys)
cool topic......
10-02-2003, 08:28 PM
#38
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,862
RE: The dead Spot?
That obviously was a not hit in the mythical " dead spot." It was a shot gone awry, hitting the buck in the shoulder area. Obviously, the wound did not heal (may have been due to the broadhead staying in the wound for a time) and became severely infected, then possibly becoming gangrenous.
All wounds are not always immediately fatal. I have seen mangled deer, mangled from being hit by a car, and deer with a leg shot almost off survive for a long time. Eventually, infection, starvation, vulnerablility to predators, etc, takes its toll.
All wounds are not always immediately fatal. I have seen mangled deer, mangled from being hit by a car, and deer with a leg shot almost off survive for a long time. Eventually, infection, starvation, vulnerablility to predators, etc, takes its toll.