arrows again
08-06-2014, 09:16 AM
#21
Spike
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 8
In due respect, I don't think it to be fair saying that our arrows lose their straightness after so many shots without testing it.
I totally understand where you are coming from though. You get what you pay for, right? Well, that's been one of the hardest things for us as a new company with real low price to overcome. Our market focus is indeed the budget archer. We have affordable shafts, and many think that because of that they are "cheep" shafts. That's not the case.
If you have personally experienced a problem with DCA arrows, PLEASE get in contact with me. If it's faulty product then I would love to help you. If you haven't tried them yet, and you might be interested in doing so later on, i would suggest our ECO Hunters that start at $49.99 a dozen fletched arrows.
Respectfully,
Jesse
I totally understand where you are coming from though. You get what you pay for, right? Well, that's been one of the hardest things for us as a new company with real low price to overcome. Our market focus is indeed the budget archer. We have affordable shafts, and many think that because of that they are "cheep" shafts. That's not the case.
If you have personally experienced a problem with DCA arrows, PLEASE get in contact with me. If it's faulty product then I would love to help you. If you haven't tried them yet, and you might be interested in doing so later on, i would suggest our ECO Hunters that start at $49.99 a dozen fletched arrows.
Respectfully,
Jesse
Having the same straightness and weight tolerance specifications as competitors high end shafts seems all well and good, but shoot them into a block 5 or 10 times, or skip one off the top of a target, then measure your straightness... It becomes very apparent why some "pro" shafts with 0.01" tolerance cost more than others, AND why those shafts have high reputations. I've gone through a lot of shafts, and I'm not at all saying that DCA doesn't turn out a great hunting shaft at an affordable price that almost makes me want to convert to buying lower grade shafts and replacing them 3x as often, but when it comes to running arrows a lot of shots on target through an aggressive cam bow, you really do get what you pay for in terms of arrow life and resiliency.
08-07-2014, 03:50 AM
#22
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 282
I've heard good things about DCA arrows and I know a few people who shoot them. Straightness isn't an issue because carbon arrows are generally gonna be straight or broken. They're not like aluminum, which can bend. $50 per dozen is a hell of a good price for carbon arrows, too. I'm pretty sure you can't touch a decent aluminum shaft for $50/dozen. If I didn't already have a bunch of GoldTip 7595s already ($100/dozen) I'd try some out.
08-07-2014, 08:21 PM
#24
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,905
Sure, aluminum shafts could get a LOT worse and still 'look straight' than carbon arrows can (i.e. the mythology of "it's either straight, or broken"). But when you spin a few different brands of +/- 0.01" shafts against an indicator after a dozen shots into a bag target with each, you can see the difference between higher end shafts and lower end ones (or better still, the difference in quality/durability between two HIGH cost shafts).
I left carbon express after many years for this reason. A dozen shots into a bag with +/-0.01" GT's and I'd show +/- 0.06", simply rolling on the spin rack with light pressure and they'd true up to +/-0.02". I did the same with a set of Easton's and a set of CE's, same 0.04-0.08" range, then after a simple truing attempt, they just didn't get any better.
Buying +/-0.01" shafts only means they were +/-0.01" straightness when the representative shaft from the lot was tested at the factory (some manufacturers validate ALL shafts, not just straw samples). What happens to it between packaging, retail sale, and a few dozen or few hundred shots into a bag can change that.
08-07-2014, 09:05 PM
#25
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,905
Also, to DCA/Jesse...
First off, assuming you are who you say you are, then I do appreciate:
1) The fact that you're expending the time and interest to come on here and talk about your products. It's encouraging to see producers in our industry take part in conversation forums like this.
2) The level of professionalism with which you're doing so. We have had experiences here (and on other forums) in which producer representatives like yourself haven't been able to speak candidly about their products or manage consumer criticism in a professional manner.
That out of the way - what I have lost patience about, regarding the online discussions about your products, which is NO fault of the company nor products themselves is this:
These threads inevitably posture that the $49/dz ECO shafts are in some way superior to competitors "pro shafts". Does your average bow hunter have a NEED for a $100+/dz pro shaft? Nope. But does that mean an economy class shaft is BETTER? Maybe "better value for bowhunting purpose," but not necessarily "better quality." That's the piece that always seems to get lost in these threads.
Even within DCA's product line, if a guy wants a +/-0.01" shaft, they're going to be spending over $100/dz.
I do have to ask, what's the weight tolerance specification for your "Standard," "Custom," and "Select" shafts?
I have no doubt that the $50/dz ECO shafts deliver value beyond that of their price point. BUT, a $40k Ford pick-up is NOT in the same class as a Lexus. A +/- 0.06" $50/dz economy class shaft just isn't in the same competitive class as a +/-0.01" $100-180/dz Pro grade shaft. For $50, I'd gladly take you up on the challenge to spend more than a few dozen shots playing with your ECO shafts - BUT rated at 55-75#, I'll assume that the ECO's are 0.350-0.330" spines? If so, unfortunately, I don't own a bow that's appropriate for that stiffness, and the ECO isn't available in .250-300" spine. I'd be more than happy to put the +/-0.01" .300" Hunters or SD's up against the 2dz GT Velocity Pro 300's that I have in the rack ready to get fletched for this season, but again, based on the website, this is a $100-130/dz shaft, NOT the $50/dz price point that gets associated with all of the DCA products online.
First off, assuming you are who you say you are, then I do appreciate:
1) The fact that you're expending the time and interest to come on here and talk about your products. It's encouraging to see producers in our industry take part in conversation forums like this.
2) The level of professionalism with which you're doing so. We have had experiences here (and on other forums) in which producer representatives like yourself haven't been able to speak candidly about their products or manage consumer criticism in a professional manner.
That out of the way - what I have lost patience about, regarding the online discussions about your products, which is NO fault of the company nor products themselves is this:
These threads inevitably posture that the $49/dz ECO shafts are in some way superior to competitors "pro shafts". Does your average bow hunter have a NEED for a $100+/dz pro shaft? Nope. But does that mean an economy class shaft is BETTER? Maybe "better value for bowhunting purpose," but not necessarily "better quality." That's the piece that always seems to get lost in these threads.
Even within DCA's product line, if a guy wants a +/-0.01" shaft, they're going to be spending over $100/dz.
I do have to ask, what's the weight tolerance specification for your "Standard," "Custom," and "Select" shafts?
I have no doubt that the $50/dz ECO shafts deliver value beyond that of their price point. BUT, a $40k Ford pick-up is NOT in the same class as a Lexus. A +/- 0.06" $50/dz economy class shaft just isn't in the same competitive class as a +/-0.01" $100-180/dz Pro grade shaft. For $50, I'd gladly take you up on the challenge to spend more than a few dozen shots playing with your ECO shafts - BUT rated at 55-75#, I'll assume that the ECO's are 0.350-0.330" spines? If so, unfortunately, I don't own a bow that's appropriate for that stiffness, and the ECO isn't available in .250-300" spine. I'd be more than happy to put the +/-0.01" .300" Hunters or SD's up against the 2dz GT Velocity Pro 300's that I have in the rack ready to get fletched for this season, but again, based on the website, this is a $100-130/dz shaft, NOT the $50/dz price point that gets associated with all of the DCA products online.
08-11-2014, 09:35 AM
#26
Spike
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 8
Nomercy,
When we started out the company April of last year we had a one spine arrow, at least .006" straightness, with the 3 color options of the R2 vanes.. $49.99. We marketed it to the budget hunter who just wanted a tough arrow at a great price. That worked get our feet on the ground and make a name for ourselves.
During the summer time we started making 300, 350, 400 and 500 spines. We started making SD Hunters, Target arrows, and then we started sorting them in straightness'. Not only that but then we launched our custom department. We offered custom fletching on all .003" and .001"..
What we did was we broadened our market. We started making arrows to not only the budget hunters, but also to the folks who wanted the best. The target archers that demanded perfection... But we are still less expensive than our competitors. We are not making our money by high profits on each sale, but making a profit on a quantity of sales.
Then it hit us that we had ventured away from what we started with, so we re-launched our one spine, one straightness arrow for $49.99. We don't advertise that it's the superior arrow of the market, but we absolutely do not say that it is any less quality. It's just limited options that keeps our cost down on these.
Like I said, we do have the .001" premium top of the line shafts, and yes, they are a good bit more expensive than our ECOs. Mainly because our cost in them is a good bit more. But keep in mind that we are still trying to stay $20-$30 below our competitors...
Not sure if I've done more rambling on or helping, but thank you for your willingness to have an adult conversation on here. I've come across to many people that are just plain hateful for no real reason. So Thanks!
When we started out the company April of last year we had a one spine arrow, at least .006" straightness, with the 3 color options of the R2 vanes.. $49.99. We marketed it to the budget hunter who just wanted a tough arrow at a great price. That worked get our feet on the ground and make a name for ourselves.
During the summer time we started making 300, 350, 400 and 500 spines. We started making SD Hunters, Target arrows, and then we started sorting them in straightness'. Not only that but then we launched our custom department. We offered custom fletching on all .003" and .001"..
What we did was we broadened our market. We started making arrows to not only the budget hunters, but also to the folks who wanted the best. The target archers that demanded perfection... But we are still less expensive than our competitors. We are not making our money by high profits on each sale, but making a profit on a quantity of sales.
Then it hit us that we had ventured away from what we started with, so we re-launched our one spine, one straightness arrow for $49.99. We don't advertise that it's the superior arrow of the market, but we absolutely do not say that it is any less quality. It's just limited options that keeps our cost down on these.
Like I said, we do have the .001" premium top of the line shafts, and yes, they are a good bit more expensive than our ECOs. Mainly because our cost in them is a good bit more. But keep in mind that we are still trying to stay $20-$30 below our competitors...
Not sure if I've done more rambling on or helping, but thank you for your willingness to have an adult conversation on here. I've come across to many people that are just plain hateful for no real reason. So Thanks!
Also, to DCA/Jesse...
First off, assuming you are who you say you are, then I do appreciate:
1) The fact that you're expending the time and interest to come on here and talk about your products. It's encouraging to see producers in our industry take part in conversation forums like this.
2) The level of professionalism with which you're doing so. We have had experiences here (and on other forums) in which producer representatives like yourself haven't been able to speak candidly about their products or manage consumer criticism in a professional manner.
That out of the way - what I have lost patience about, regarding the online discussions about your products, which is NO fault of the company nor products themselves is this:
These threads inevitably posture that the $49/dz ECO shafts are in some way superior to competitors "pro shafts". Does your average bow hunter have a NEED for a $100+/dz pro shaft? Nope. But does that mean an economy class shaft is BETTER? Maybe "better value for bowhunting purpose," but not necessarily "better quality." That's the piece that always seems to get lost in these threads.
Even within DCA's product line, if a guy wants a +/-0.01" shaft, they're going to be spending over $100/dz.
I do have to ask, what's the weight tolerance specification for your "Standard," "Custom," and "Select" shafts? We do not advertise, but we are +/-5 grains on the weight. Ike's OutDoors has done some testing and came out with some great weights. It's worth a look.
I have no doubt that the $50/dz ECO shafts deliver value beyond that of their price point. BUT, a $40k Ford pick-up is NOT in the same class as a Lexus. A +/- 0.06" $50/dz economy class shaft just isn't in the same competitive class as a +/-0.01" $100-180/dz Pro grade shaft. For $50, I'd gladly take you up on the challenge to spend more than a few dozen shots playing with your ECO shafts - BUT rated at 55-75#, I'll assume that the ECO's are 0.350-0.330" spines? If so, unfortunately, I don't own a bow that's appropriate for that stiffness, and the ECO isn't available in .250-300" spine. I'd be more than happy to put the +/-0.01" .300" Hunters or SD's up against the 2dz GT Velocity Pro 300's that I have in the rack ready to get fletched for this season, but again, based on the website, this is a $100-130/dz shaft, NOT the $50/dz price point that gets associated with all of the DCA products online.
First off, assuming you are who you say you are, then I do appreciate:
1) The fact that you're expending the time and interest to come on here and talk about your products. It's encouraging to see producers in our industry take part in conversation forums like this.
2) The level of professionalism with which you're doing so. We have had experiences here (and on other forums) in which producer representatives like yourself haven't been able to speak candidly about their products or manage consumer criticism in a professional manner.
That out of the way - what I have lost patience about, regarding the online discussions about your products, which is NO fault of the company nor products themselves is this:
These threads inevitably posture that the $49/dz ECO shafts are in some way superior to competitors "pro shafts". Does your average bow hunter have a NEED for a $100+/dz pro shaft? Nope. But does that mean an economy class shaft is BETTER? Maybe "better value for bowhunting purpose," but not necessarily "better quality." That's the piece that always seems to get lost in these threads.
Even within DCA's product line, if a guy wants a +/-0.01" shaft, they're going to be spending over $100/dz.
I do have to ask, what's the weight tolerance specification for your "Standard," "Custom," and "Select" shafts? We do not advertise, but we are +/-5 grains on the weight. Ike's OutDoors has done some testing and came out with some great weights. It's worth a look.
I have no doubt that the $50/dz ECO shafts deliver value beyond that of their price point. BUT, a $40k Ford pick-up is NOT in the same class as a Lexus. A +/- 0.06" $50/dz economy class shaft just isn't in the same competitive class as a +/-0.01" $100-180/dz Pro grade shaft. For $50, I'd gladly take you up on the challenge to spend more than a few dozen shots playing with your ECO shafts - BUT rated at 55-75#, I'll assume that the ECO's are 0.350-0.330" spines? If so, unfortunately, I don't own a bow that's appropriate for that stiffness, and the ECO isn't available in .250-300" spine. I'd be more than happy to put the +/-0.01" .300" Hunters or SD's up against the 2dz GT Velocity Pro 300's that I have in the rack ready to get fletched for this season, but again, based on the website, this is a $100-130/dz shaft, NOT the $50/dz price point that gets associated with all of the DCA products online.
08-11-2014, 07:37 PM
#27
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 282
This is not accurate.
Sure, aluminum shafts could get a LOT worse and still 'look straight' than carbon arrows can (i.e. the mythology of "it's either straight, or broken"). But when you spin a few different brands of +/- 0.01" shafts against an indicator after a dozen shots into a bag target with each, you can see the difference between higher end shafts and lower end ones (or better still, the difference in quality/durability between two HIGH cost shafts).
I left carbon express after many years for this reason. A dozen shots into a bag with +/-0.01" GT's and I'd show +/- 0.06", simply rolling on the spin rack with light pressure and they'd true up to +/-0.02". I did the same with a set of Easton's and a set of CE's, same 0.04-0.08" range, then after a simple truing attempt, they just didn't get any better.
Buying +/-0.01" shafts only means they were +/-0.01" straightness when the representative shaft from the lot was tested at the factory (some manufacturers validate ALL shafts, not just straw samples). What happens to it between packaging, retail sale, and a few dozen or few hundred shots into a bag can change that.
Sure, aluminum shafts could get a LOT worse and still 'look straight' than carbon arrows can (i.e. the mythology of "it's either straight, or broken"). But when you spin a few different brands of +/- 0.01" shafts against an indicator after a dozen shots into a bag target with each, you can see the difference between higher end shafts and lower end ones (or better still, the difference in quality/durability between two HIGH cost shafts).
I left carbon express after many years for this reason. A dozen shots into a bag with +/-0.01" GT's and I'd show +/- 0.06", simply rolling on the spin rack with light pressure and they'd true up to +/-0.02". I did the same with a set of Easton's and a set of CE's, same 0.04-0.08" range, then after a simple truing attempt, they just didn't get any better.
Buying +/-0.01" shafts only means they were +/-0.01" straightness when the representative shaft from the lot was tested at the factory (some manufacturers validate ALL shafts, not just straw samples). What happens to it between packaging, retail sale, and a few dozen or few hundred shots into a bag can change that.
