Aim low from a treestand?
09-20-2003, 05:32 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ashburn VA USA
Posts: 41
Aim low from a treestand?
I hear people talk about about how you have to aim low from a treestand b/c of the angle? I think I understand the physics. If you are 3 yards (15ft) up in a tree stand and a buck is 20 yards away (from up in the stand) then the real distance is only 19.77 yards (Pythagorean Theorem). Unless I' m thinking about it incorrectly, gravity is only pulling on the arrow for 19.77 yards instead of 20 yards, therefore you have to aim low b/c it' s really not as far as you think. I understand all of that, but the amount of difference is so small, does it really matter? Take an extreme example, what if I were 6 yards (30ft) up in a tree (unlikely) and the buck was 20 yards away (from up in the stand), it really would only be 19.07 yards from the base of the tree. Doesn' t seem like enough to worry about. Am I missing something?
09-20-2003, 05:38 AM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Virginia / West Virginia
Posts: 4,906
RE: Aim low from a treestand?
19 vs. 20? No..no difference. The problem is when shooting down at an angle, you tend to lose your form. This usually results in a high shot. If you bend at the waist, you should have no problems at all. Your form will stay good, and you' ll hit your mark. Try practicing from a treestand (which you should do anyhow)...you' ll see what I mean. 
09-20-2003, 05:47 AM
#3
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
RE: Aim low from a treestand?
I agree with WV Hunter.....the difference does not affect arrow flight and anyone who shoots enough competitive 3D knows this.....either down out of a tree stand, or up a steep hill....you aim exactly where you intend to hit as long as you bend at the waist..
Archers who claim you have to aim low are not following proper form. They tend to stand upright and drop their bow arm down changing the sighting plane/triangle from their bow hand, arm and eye....Do this experiment....draw your bow in your house...while at full draw, twist right and left and then bend at the waist and pretend to shoot down or up...you notice the difference between your bow arm, eyes and sight stay consistant.....now don' t bend at the waist but drop your bow arm, this same triangle between your eyes, arm and sight now changes drastically...this is what causes archers to shoot high and miss.
The only logical reason to aim low would be for animal reaction.
Like someone has in their signature......AIM FOR THE EXIT HOLE...aiming for the far shoulder is also a good idea...know where you want your arrow to exit and give it to them.
Archers who claim you have to aim low are not following proper form. They tend to stand upright and drop their bow arm down changing the sighting plane/triangle from their bow hand, arm and eye....Do this experiment....draw your bow in your house...while at full draw, twist right and left and then bend at the waist and pretend to shoot down or up...you notice the difference between your bow arm, eyes and sight stay consistant.....now don' t bend at the waist but drop your bow arm, this same triangle between your eyes, arm and sight now changes drastically...this is what causes archers to shoot high and miss.
The only logical reason to aim low would be for animal reaction.
Like someone has in their signature......AIM FOR THE EXIT HOLE...aiming for the far shoulder is also a good idea...know where you want your arrow to exit and give it to them.
09-20-2003, 11:34 AM
#4
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: the woods of NJ.
Posts: 5,643
RE: Aim low from a treestand?
If you are 3 yards (15ft) up in a tree stand
and my guess is yes you missed something it was called Math just bustin ya good luck and just practice from the height you' ll be shooting from and you' ll have no problems. ( that you' ll have to solve with a pencil)
09-20-2003, 11:40 AM
#5
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Posts: 586
RE: Aim low from a treestand?
I' m going to throw another loop into this. Please correct me or confirm this, if anyone else has heard this.
As an arrow is shot from a tree, it is angled so the tail is up and the head is down.....obviously. I' ve heard you should aim low because the natural tendency of an arrow is, while in flight, to actually plain up, and due to gravity I' m sure , start to fly parrallel to the ground. Not sure if this true. Someone has all ready pointed this out, however, regardsless of where you think you should at a deer while in a tree, you should practice from up high before you hunt high. Good luck this season to all!!!!!
J
As an arrow is shot from a tree, it is angled so the tail is up and the head is down.....obviously. I' ve heard you should aim low because the natural tendency of an arrow is, while in flight, to actually plain up, and due to gravity I' m sure , start to fly parrallel to the ground. Not sure if this true. Someone has all ready pointed this out, however, regardsless of where you think you should at a deer while in a tree, you should practice from up high before you hunt high. Good luck this season to all!!!!!
J
09-20-2003, 01:23 PM
#6
RE: Aim low from a treestand?
I added a No-Peep last Fall. To me its greatest advantage is in correcting errors in form. I aim in the lower 1/3 of my animals and only errors in distance judgement, and failure to consider the animal will in most cases duck, cause any high hits.
With the No-Peep all I need to do is concentrate on centering the dot in the prisim and my form is correct and I needen' t consider the angular physics of the shot. An earlier message had it absolutely correct aim for the exit hole. I always aim for the the middle of the opposite shoulder on a quartering away shot [ or rib area -broadside shot] of my animals.
Lest you think that the concentration on the No-Peep is just another step that you need to worry about it . . . it becomes automatic. I don' t even notice it any more and the No-Peep is always there as reminder in my pereferal vision and requires no special thought or concentration.
With the No-Peep all I need to do is concentrate on centering the dot in the prisim and my form is correct and I needen' t consider the angular physics of the shot. An earlier message had it absolutely correct aim for the exit hole. I always aim for the the middle of the opposite shoulder on a quartering away shot [ or rib area -broadside shot] of my animals.
Lest you think that the concentration on the No-Peep is just another step that you need to worry about it . . . it becomes automatic. I don' t even notice it any more and the No-Peep is always there as reminder in my pereferal vision and requires no special thought or concentration.
09-20-2003, 10:01 PM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rockford Michigan USA
Posts: 1,344
RE: Aim low from a treestand?
I also have another reason that makes sense. If you look at a deer lets say it is 18 inches from the top of the deer to the bottom. When you are above the deer you now can see the top of the deer, if you look at this distance as a whole it could be longer lets say 24 inches. So if you aim from ground level at this deer right in the middle you will hit 9 inches up. If you aim from the tree when it looks like 24 inches in the middle that will be 12 inches up, however the deer is really only 18 inches so you would have to shoot 3 inches low to compensate for this. I saw this on the outdoor channel all about shot placement. Very helpful.
09-21-2003, 12:29 AM
#9
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Imperial, MO
Posts: 140
RE: Aim low from a treestand?
Psuross,
In most cases, the difference in distance when shooting from a stand vs. on the ground is negligible and is not the answer to your question. Though improper form (not bending at the waist) will usually result in a high shot, when compared to “proper form”, this may not be consistent from shooter to shooter. Or, who’s to say you don’t already " naturally" shoot with “improper” form, so why would you continue to aim low if your already compensating.
I believe the answer your looking for is to understand the trajectory of the arrow as it relates to your line of sight and the angle at which gravity is applied. This applies for rifles or bows and the effects are equally significant if shooting at either an upward or downward angle.
For example:
Shooting on level ground.
Your line of sight is a straight line direct to the target, or parallel to the ground. The force of gravity on the arrow is being applied straight down, or perpendicular to the line of sight. The trajectory of the arrow follows an “arced” path. So understanding that the force of gravity is present the instant the arrow is launched and with the launching point positioned below your line of sight, the arrow will cross your line of sight twice while in flight. So, when you launch your arrow, at some short distance in front of your bow (lets say 5yds for this description) the arrow will rise to cross your line of sight, it will then travel some distance above your line sight before falling to cross your line of sight again, hopefully striking the target at this point.
Shooting from stand.
Understanding that now you are up a given distance looking down at a given angle, your line of sight is still a straight line direct to the target. The trajectory of the arrow will still follow its “arced” path. However, now you have changed the angle at which gravity is applied to the arrow. The steeper the angle, the less effect gravity plays on “downward” path of the arrow. This means, the steeper the angle the longer the arrow will remain above the line of sight, potentially resulting in a high point of impact. Think of it this way…..if you shoot directly below your stand, straight down towards the ground, once your arrow crosses your line of sight the first time it will never fall to cross your line of sight again regardless how far the arrow travels. This due to gravity being applied in the direction of flight, no perpendicular/angular force to pull it back down.
Now, with that description I’ll say, don’t be over critical with your setup. If you have an “average” setup and hunt from “average” heights I would shoot a few practice shots from an elevated position just for safety sake but I’ll bet you’ll find the difference in point of impact is, again, negligible. The only time I can really see this being an issue is if you hunt from extreme heights. You’re not only effecting your trajectory but you are also making the “kill zone” on the deer smaller.
Hope this helps,
Toby
In most cases, the difference in distance when shooting from a stand vs. on the ground is negligible and is not the answer to your question. Though improper form (not bending at the waist) will usually result in a high shot, when compared to “proper form”, this may not be consistent from shooter to shooter. Or, who’s to say you don’t already " naturally" shoot with “improper” form, so why would you continue to aim low if your already compensating.
I believe the answer your looking for is to understand the trajectory of the arrow as it relates to your line of sight and the angle at which gravity is applied. This applies for rifles or bows and the effects are equally significant if shooting at either an upward or downward angle.
For example:
Shooting on level ground.
Your line of sight is a straight line direct to the target, or parallel to the ground. The force of gravity on the arrow is being applied straight down, or perpendicular to the line of sight. The trajectory of the arrow follows an “arced” path. So understanding that the force of gravity is present the instant the arrow is launched and with the launching point positioned below your line of sight, the arrow will cross your line of sight twice while in flight. So, when you launch your arrow, at some short distance in front of your bow (lets say 5yds for this description) the arrow will rise to cross your line of sight, it will then travel some distance above your line sight before falling to cross your line of sight again, hopefully striking the target at this point.
Shooting from stand.
Understanding that now you are up a given distance looking down at a given angle, your line of sight is still a straight line direct to the target. The trajectory of the arrow will still follow its “arced” path. However, now you have changed the angle at which gravity is applied to the arrow. The steeper the angle, the less effect gravity plays on “downward” path of the arrow. This means, the steeper the angle the longer the arrow will remain above the line of sight, potentially resulting in a high point of impact. Think of it this way…..if you shoot directly below your stand, straight down towards the ground, once your arrow crosses your line of sight the first time it will never fall to cross your line of sight again regardless how far the arrow travels. This due to gravity being applied in the direction of flight, no perpendicular/angular force to pull it back down.
Now, with that description I’ll say, don’t be over critical with your setup. If you have an “average” setup and hunt from “average” heights I would shoot a few practice shots from an elevated position just for safety sake but I’ll bet you’ll find the difference in point of impact is, again, negligible. The only time I can really see this being an issue is if you hunt from extreme heights. You’re not only effecting your trajectory but you are also making the “kill zone” on the deer smaller.
Hope this helps,
Toby
