I agree, wholeheartedly. IMO, there isn't 10% (I think that's GROSSLY high, but I'll be nice) of bowhunters going afield who have a clue how to achieve bow/arrow tune.

They know if they put a fixed blade BH on the business end, they get poor flight. So, what's a quick band-aid? Answer is....they can screw on a mech. head and at least their FP's and BH's will impact together.

I've said it before and I'll say it again......OUT OF A WELL-TUNED BOW, producing adequate for FPKE for the quarry being pursued....there isn't a more devastating wound channel produced ....than with the large mechanicals.

I don't see the above paragraph occurring very much, though.

My grandparents have a little sporting section in their store and carry rage broadheads for one reason and one reason only. They make money!!! Other then that they are sick of people coming in and saying that the blades are dull, not deploying, I wounded two deer last week with them. I was one of those people couple years ago when rage first came out. I will never go back to them. I switched to rage only because the Marketing sold me!! I thought they were the next best thing to sliced bread. Any ways, we'll not display them next year in our sporting section. Slick tricks, Muzzy, Magnus and Rocky Mountain heads only.

I'll give it a go.

They fly truer at distances 0-100 yards.
They fly better in windy conditions.
They fly better on a poor release
They fly better on a slightly torqued bow
You get bigger entrance (rear opening) and exit holes that will give you better blood trails more consistently.

I have been doing this for 30+ years also and I used fixed for the first 19-20 years and rear opening expandables got me to switch. First the Rocky Mt Revolution, then the Snyper and now Rage.

I shoot a Switchback at 260-270lbs, so certainly not fast by today's standards and have taken down 6 mature bucks ranging from 270-330lbs liveweight and all passthroughs.

I will agree that many use mechanicals because they can't get fixed to fly but if they are not going to take the time what scenario is better:

A fixed flying erratic?
or
A mechanical that can still hit its mark?

I'll give you two choices.....

1. BH "A" doesn't fly true....and forces the hunter to tune his bow.
or
2. BH "B" flies true and gives the hunter the false impression he IS in tune.

If you are serious I will explain their advantages.

1. They fly like field tips. And that is an all together different thing than just getting your fixed heads to group with your field tips. Flying "LIKE" a field tip means that they do not affect the flight of the arrow or fight the vanes for control of the arrow under any circumstances. Bad form, slight torque of the bow, windy day, etc, etc. This makes them more accurate. Not saying for a minute that you cannot shoot a fixed head accurately. I use and kill deer with fixed heads too. I can shoot with near perfect form in my front yard consistently. But 25 foot up a tree in thick clothing on a windy day when the temps are in the 30's and I need to kneel down to shoot under a limb, that can throw perfect form off a bit. Fixed blade broadheads are problem amplifiers. If you are only shooting out to 20 yards then you have little to worry about. But if you take longer shots there is no doubt for those truly anal about accuracy that mech heads are more accurate.

2. Bigger holes. If you have the power then why not make a bigger hole? If your bow is driving a 1 1/8 inch diameter head 6 inches into the dirt on the other side of deer then why waste that energy making deep holes in the ground. Why not put a 2 inch wide hole through them and settle for your arrow only being buried 3 inches in the ground. After all there are no bonus points I am aware of for deeper ground penetration. And when it comes to bigger cutting diameter mech heads are king. Could you find a large diameter 3 blade fixed head intended for use in compound bows? Maybe. I'm honestly not sure anymore. They used to make some big over-sized 3 blade fixed heads way back when compounds were maxing out at speeds in the 230 fps range. Now that that number is up near and sometimes over 300 fps those big heads seem to have gone the way of the Dodo. And with good reason. I'm sure they would be a pain to tune for good arrow flight at 280 to 300 fps. They would also greatly exacerbate even the tiniest glitch in form by an order of magnitude over standard fixed heads. Mech heads can offer you a big cutting diameter and field point accuracy at the same time. Also all other things being equal, bigger heads mean more tissue cut, greater likelihood of nicking veins/arteries and a big hole less likely to become clogged with fat, hair, etc,. And in most cases that should yield a better blood trail. I've shot deer perfectly with 3 and 4 blade Muzzys and didn't find a thimble full of blood between my arrow and where the deer lay dead. When I put a Grim Reaper expandable through a deer I can follow the blood trail at a fast trot.

They are not for everyone. If your bow doesn't have the power to get pass throughs with mechs then don't use them. If you are just using them as a way around tuning your bow then I call foul on that as well. But if you tune your bow like I do and you have the power they are great.

Nope, sorry. Most of those type guys will not be moved to tune their bow but rather will simply move the sights to match where the broadheads hit. Seen it many times.

^^And this guy doesn't know he's out of tune?

You can't fix stupid.

One last thing and ill get out of this peeing contest.

Fixed heads fly like field points when the arrow and bow are tuned, plan and simple.

But those same guys in #1 will not tune as long as they are hitting somewhat close to there FPs.

I don't like either one but I will take a rear opening BH that flies and hits its mark over a fixed that flies erratic.

I agree, most of the time you can get fixed to fly like FP but what happens to that fixed on a poor release? a slightly torqued bow? in windy conditions?

You're right, you can't fix stupid so would you rather have erratic flight with a fixed which will greatly diminish your penetration or a rear opening mechanical hitting its mark.

Do you think those same guys that can't get a fixed to fly right and switch to a mechanical would actually try to tune there bow for a fixed head?

I don't know if they'd try or not.

But, at least they'd know they were out of tune. It's their decision, then, on whether or not to hunt that way.

Like I said....you can't fix stupid.

I've only taken one deer with a Rage. Very little penetration because I hit the shoulder. Gotta love a deer that drops on the spot!

I don't want to make this sound like an argument because I respect what you say but you answer everything but the simple question I keep asking.

Out of a slightly untuned bow would you have rather shoot"

A fixed head with erratic flight?
A mechanical that will still hit its spot?

I have only have two experiences with Rage broadheads and neither of them were shot out of my bow. I was hunting with a buddy two years ago and he made a great shot on a nice big buck. He got about about 6 inches of penetration out of a Switchback XT pulling 65lbs. The Rage opened like it should and put a massive hole in his deer. One thing I found interesting is that there was NO blood trail at all to follow. He watched the deer tip over about 200 yards away but there was zero blood to follow. It puzzled me due to the hole that guy was sporting. In that instance the arrow went in and hit both lungs and destroyed the deer.

In my second experience with the Rage I had a buddy in from Miss to hunt and he shot a nice big buck with the Rage. He called me and told me he made a good shot but couldn't find any sign. I immediately thought to myself that his shot must have been off. We gathered a posse together and went through the woods in search of his deer. There was zero blood anywhere. I ended up finding the deer about 100 yards from his stand stone dead with the arrow still in him. He got 6-7 inches of penetration out of a Hoyt Trykon pulling 70 lbs. This was a good shot as well. The Rage deployed as it should and the entrance hole was massive but NO blood trail.

Both shots I witnessed first hand were textbook double lung kills with minimal penetration out of pretty good stout setups. I think the Rage is a good head. It performed like it should other then the lack of penetration and clear absence of blood trails to follow.

For years I have shot Thunderhead fixed blade 75 grain heads. I shoot and tweak my bow religiously folks. If I'm not chopping fletchings off at 30 yards I'm not happy. I stay on top of my bow through and through and have NEVER had a flight issue with a fixed blade broadhead. I piledrived several big bucks with complete pass throughs from 20 yards to 50 yards with huge blood trails. I bought a Z7 this year and switched to Grim Reaper 75 grain heads and absolutely love them. I will tell you this though. I heart shot a buck two nights ago at about 17 yards and he went 50 yards on a dead run and face planted. My arrow had very little blood on it and there was no blood on the ground whatsoever. I'm pulling 77 lbs with my bow. The end result was good but he would have left my sight I might have been in trouble.

I have shot several does with the same setup this season also and have had bloodtrails that looked like someone spilled red paint on the ground.

I agree that you can get a good broadhead to fly like you want if you pay attention to your equipment and tune it as necessary.

What's strange is that I shoot a 70lb Switchback, almost the same as your first story, and have got complete passthroughs on 13 out of 13 deer and 6 of those being mature (270-330lb live weight) bucks.

This is what kills me about mechanicals.

You're basically telling everyone ..."if you're slightly out of tune, it's OK to stick a mechanical band-aid on your setup".

I won't go there.

If something's out of tune -------------fix it.

NO! So far from the truth. Please don't try to mix my words. What I am saying is most guys don't ever tune their bow so they go out and IF they even practice with a BH and it hits somewhat close to their FP they go hunting.

With that scenario, which is a very common one, the bowhunter isn't going to very successful.

What I am asking you, which you continue to tip toe around, would it be better to use a mechanical that will at least hit it's mark rather than a fixed that will fly erratic.

I am not saying to shoot the mechanical to put a band-aid
on your setup. But in the real world my scenario is the most common one.

You'll get no argument from me.

What distances were both of the bucks shot at with the Rage tips?

Wow this comes up on every forum. If people would stop to think and understand there wouldnt be any reason for discussion on this topic.

1. if you dont find your deer then stop and dont say anything cause you dont know what happened or where you hit.

2. does not matter if the o-ring slides down the shaft, it will still open.

3. the biggest complaint about rages is them NOT staying closed

4. if you test the blades to make sure they move freely it is impossible for them not to open!

5. yes there are people that use mechanicals as tuning band aids but what about guys like me and my buddies? I shoot rages, slick tricks, thunderheads, ect. I always tune with fixed heads. Doesnt matter if I dont plan on hunting with them but I do make sure my bow is as tuned as possible.

6. most people use setups with to low KE to even shoot them in the first place. Ive never NOT had a pass thru mostly due to shooting heavy arrows and my bows are tuned.

7. blade sharpness not as sharp as others, blades bend easily, blade change can be a pain in the arse

8. this is all fact from what I (and my hunting group, friends, coworkers) have seen. Between us all I have no idea how many deer have died using rages. Shot placement is #1 no matter the head. I cant think of one deer we have lost with rage. The very few we have lost includes all types of heads (fixed, mechanical) and every one was a bad shot that no one blamed on the broadhead or equipment.

9. am I rage fan? Not at all. I jump on no bandwagons nor place blame on anything that I cant 100% prove. I like testing heads. Next up is ramcats

when you shot one the blade rams into the ferrule and nicks it. If you don't clean up that nick the ring won't sit right.

Well I have nothing bad to say about these heads (100 grain 2 blade- 2" cut) I broadhead tuned with fixed blades, and went with a mechicanical to try them out. Ive taken two deer at about 15-20 yards with them. Both werent the greatest shots unfortunately. But both deer had massive blood loss and didnt make it 40 yards away. I cant think of anything but a really bad shot would cause you to loose a deer with these. Now that being said in my eyes they arnt that re-useable. Ive dammaged some from hitting those animals, also some from pass through- ground contact, and I need more o-rings. My only fear is one will open in flight (may have happened already?) And the blades on mine chatter a little while holding the bow.

Brother shot a deer and hit the shoulder, the arrow seemed to bounce off the deer. It didn't bounce off but the head snapped off at the threads and the arrow bounced out. He's seen it all and that was a new one for him. He found the head in the animal.

Never had a head snap off there, arrows break, but not the head. He's amazed at the pile of blood too.

They are a noisy head and do make a racket when they open in flight. They are kind of like a high maintanence woman you can't get out of your mind. Worth it, but always needs something. :)

Ford in my cases which I was on both hunts both were in the woods and close range shots within 25 yards. I wish I would have taken pics. Both deer were toast but no blood trails. Entry angles were pretty high too so I take that into the equation also but I would have thought with seeing those two hits that one would have passed through.

Having a high entry hole would definitely explain the no blood. I agree though, you'd think out of those bow set ups that one of them could get a pass through at 25 yards or less.