Am I wrong?
 

Maybe im be selfish! am I?

No you are not wrong, he owes it to the animal that he is hunting to be 100% sure of his shot, to get a quick clean kill. No one can buy there first bow and be a ready to hunt with it in a week. You should tell he that he needs to take bow hunting a lot more seriously, the shots are closer, you only get one shot, and you have lil room for error if you want the deer to die quickly

If he's taking multiple shots with a gun, I would not be comfortable at all with him with a bow in the woods. One week is an awfully fast turnaround to be "hunt ready." Teaching him about all of the nuances about bow hunting will no doubt make him a better hunter overall, and it will likely be a tough pill to swallow if you tell him he's not going to be allowed to bow hunt this year. Encourage him to get a bow, and practice, and maybe even sit with you, but no shooting until late season, with a couple months of practice. Just my opinion, but that's how I would handle it.

Not wrong at all. Jmo

I dont think he would be setting in my set ups either.

If he's missing with a gun, there's no way he would be ready to go in one week with a bow. If he's lucky, maybe next year.

Well....
 

Sounds to me he has the "buck fever" thing taken care of. Bow starts in a week? Try this, tell him to practice until last week of OCT, first week of NOV, then have him shoot out of a tree that isn't in your hunting area, and see how he does. As far as set ups go, ya gotta do your own work, make him find and set up his own, thats part of the reward when you get yourself a nice deer. You may be pleasantly surprised, some people it does come natural. If he can't shoot that bow accurately inside of 2 months, then he has NO business bowhunting at all.:happy0001:

Make him shoot from a tree and give him a test. Move a target around and make him hit a three inch dot between 15 and 30 yards. He can't hunt until he hits it and put some pressure on him. If he waits til a week before season he probably won't have any arrows left at the end of the test. It will be obvious he is not ready.

Next year, Once he passes the shooting skills test find him a spot way away from your spots. Don't share your camera pictures, it just breeds jealousy.

Am I wrong for thinking this too, I was going to set him up wind on one side of 80 acre chunk and have his scent drift into the woods and I would be waiting on the other side. I have done this in the past with my father and it has worked out awesome. Its like a deer drive but there is no running deer, they slowly walk past.

Sounds like the guy needs a lot more then just a week of practicing with a bow, it sounds like he needs to shoot his rifle as well. I have a buddy that "hunts HIS own property" he pulls out his bow about a week or so before season and shoots a few times a night and calls it good.. I've tracked way to many deer for him with no success. I find it absolutely stupid as well as unethical to practice this type of habit.. some people have no common sense and respect for the animal... I probably send 20,000+ arrows thru my bow in a year.. In my opinion practice makes perfect and that shouldn't matter whether you hunt with a rifle or a bow, its all about respect and ethics!

i think its kind of dirty on your part,,,,are you sure your not jellous of him already...hey we all had to learn at one time,,,make him pass a test,,what a joke,,how mwny of you passed any kind of test,,,i only shoot for a mo or so befor season and i would like to see you thumb your nose at me from 30 yards,,,,,,let the man hunt or are you afraid hell show you up again,,plus to use him to push deer your way is rotten to the core,,,if i was related to you and got wind of this you would never go with me again,,i would find my own spot and you could use yours for whatever...

LOL. ^--- That cracks me up.

I, too, would not let him sit in MY setups if he isnt going to prepare himself properly.

We used to drive blocks of woods to push deer to waiting hunters, so I think you're pretty smart to set him up wind of you. I'm glad he had some beginner's luck because we need to keep the number of hunters up, but he needs to pay some dues. Let him wind you some deer & fling a few arrows to see how hard it really is, & I think he'll learn a lot about hunting. Don't exclude him - let him hunt in YOUR favor to pay some dues for all your hard work of training him. Some day he'll thank you for it. A bad day hunting is better than a good day at work.

yes about the other guy....


but wow ... using your father as a scent blocker so you can get deer ..... tooo freaking funny .... wrong ... but funny :busted:

well i don't know why people are saying things like "if it takes three shots with a gun, theres no way i would let him hunt with a bow! its a completely different game!"

IMO start him shooting ASAP! i personally used to be a terrible shot with a rifle, but a great shot with a bow (not to sound full of myself..)
i'm not proficient with a rifle and bow

but they are two different sports, get him practicing and see how he is doing, i doubt he would be ready for the opener, but maybe in october he would be prepared.

i also think thats a great idea to use him as a "funnel" to push deer to you.

JMO

If he don't want to follow common sense rules he out of there!

I think the biggest hurdle with bow hunting is being able to judge yardage. That is something you need to teach him also. He could be a great shot, but if he can get the yardage right, his shooting ability wont get him crap... Its also allot tougher to judge the yardage 15 feet up a tree. He has to be able to overcome. IMO

nope! not wrong one bit. even if he proves himself ready, give him an area and say, scout it and hang a stand where you think youll get a chance at a deer...its a part of hunting we all must do. im like you, freak about the little things, my brother...not so much! so i understand. i wouldnt want my stands blown either.

Actually he has showed me up twice and Im pretty proud of him. I would be lying if I said its not a big competition between me my father and my brother in law. A lot of smack talking goes on two three weeks before the opener of gun and a lot of beer is drank and a lot of stories are told. My brother in law sits at the table, listens and says "I cant thank you guys enough". He is the first up and has all his gear on an hour before departure (and he wonders why he gets cold). How couldn't you be happy to see someone get a buck when he's that excited. But bowhunting is serious and totally different story! Its nothing like gun hunting. In fact if I get one with the bow, Im not shooting anything unless it looks like a moose or elk walking through the woods with a gun. Am I jealous, not one bit. The land has been in the family forever and always will be. Call it what you want but I cant stomach wounded deer and believe me I have hung my bow up many times in my bowhunting career.

Ask him this: when he was playing hockey, would he take on a completely new player that had never even skated, much less handle a puck, a week before a major tournament? Well, this is the same thing. Just about anyone can learn to shoot a gun with a scope and hit somewhat accurately in a short amount of time, but bow hunting requires an entirely different level of skill. You have to make that point to him.

I have a relative that did much the same as your B-in-law is suggesting. He wanted to pick up bow hunting, so he went out, bought a bow, and shot it a few times. As we were talking about bow hunting, I mentioned how I had seen a great buck last season, but it was never closer than 50-60 yards from me. He was incredulous that I didn't attempt a shot at it. :slaps forehead: I immediately told him that if he even considered taking a shot at that range, especially as a brand new bow hunter, he still had a lot to learn before taking to the woods.

So my advice is to drill the point re: the skill required into his head. Then question him about some basic points (e.g. acceptable range, shot choice, etc) to see if he has at least the basic knowledge down. Even if he can hit a target (also a good test) if he has no idea about what an acceptable shot is, he's still not ready. And make that point known to him. I think too many new bow hunters that started as gun hunters make the mistake of thinking they can apply everything they 'know' from gun hunting to bow hunting. The last thing you want is this guy taking a shot at a running deer 50 yards out!

LOL! There's an older guy that hunts some public land where I occasionally hunt. He hunts the same 2 stands at least 4 times a week for the entire season. I've learned to use him as a 'bumper' and position myself to intercept the deer that sneak around him. :D

I don't think anybody is saying the guy should never hunt, but he should make an effort to be sure he's ready to make accurate, ethical shots.

As for passing tests...we all pass informal tests of our own. You say you shoot for a month before season. First of all, you're already an experienced shooter so a month is probably good enough to keep you up to speed, but this guy is brand new. Second, if you shoot for a few weeks and have a poor, wild-ass grouping on your arrows, would you still allow yourself to hunt? Or would you straighten out your form, tune your bow, etc first? That's mostly what people are talking about re: passing tests. I test myself every year to make sure I haven't changed my form, gotten my bow out of whack, etc.

It's the ethical thing to do. If this guy is shooting well and knows what shots he can and can't take, he's probably ready. We all know, however, that you can't take Joe Blow off the street, stick a bow in his hands for the first time, and think he's going to be ready to bow hunt. It's those types of hunters that give the rest of us a bad name.

you are VERY wrong and here is why

#1 he's LEGAL to pick up a bow and go hunt - proficiency is not a law
#2 compounds are made to be shot and within 10 minutes be shooting really good groups


sorry - you're wrong

no it isn't

Yeah, you're right. Non-hunters and anti-hunters are sure to make a distinction between an inexperienced hunter that (poorly) sticks and wounds the first animal to run by and a hunter that has practiced a bit more and tries his best to get good shot placement.

BTW, there's a distinct difference between what's legal and what's ethical. Legally, I can take aim at the head of a deer with a 40# bow and let fly. Doesn't mean it's the most ethical shot, however.

do you know HOW MANY animals are shot and wounded/lost by great shooters?

do you want to talk about the fact that rifle hunters by far and away would/lose more animals?


this is true - but with the modern compound bow, very good accuracy can be attained in just a very short time

compounds are DESIGNED to be easy to shoot - c'mon, you know this

the guy could easily shoot accurate in 30 minutes with a good tuned bow, and he could easily kill 3 for 3 deer and someone who's been bowhunting 10 years could go 0 for 3 losing 3 deer

Being accurate with a bow and being a good Bow Hunter are 2 completely different things.

Yes, it's easy to become proficient with todays compound bows. I hit the bullseye from 20 yds the first time someone put one in my hands, but that didn't mean I was ready to go bowhunting. Just meant that I knew what a sight picture was.

Well, given the above examples of new bow hunters not really knowing about good shot placement, it stands to reason that they had better at least learn about that. You make it sound like everyone is saying the new guy in question can't hunt...ever. Nobody is saying that. Rather, they're just saying he needs to take a little time (i.e. more than a week) to become familiar with what it takes to be accurate and take ethical shots.

As for rifle hunters vs. bow hunters losing more animals...it stands to reason that in absolute numbers, more are lost to rifle hunters because, er, there are far more rifle hunters than bow hunters. As a %, however, I've seen statistics showing that on a per-hunter basis, more are lost to bow hunters. It doesn't take a leap of faith (or much reading on this forum) to realize that a large number of those are likely due to poor shot placement. You can get away with a lot error more when shooting a 30.06 into a deer than an arrow.

Sorry Ranger77 but in this instance you are wrong. As plainly stated the newby wants to hunt his setups, which is the OP's decision to make. I wont' allow my son to step into the woods to hunt, even thought he is legal, without proving to me that he is proficient every year. He's 15 and out shot me and a buddy the other night, ended up busting his own nocks (yea I am proud of him!) The OP sets the rules, unless it's family land, if it was aquired by him. The newby can legally hunt public grounds.

And to say that not being proficient with a bow is not what gives bowhunters a bad name is wrong. Here in NC, where I live, there are stories on the news and such about deer being seen with arrows in them. Being a taxidermist, I have skinned out deer with arrows in them, just last year had one that had a broadhead in it's head, healed over. Shot down through the head stopped in the back of it's throat, how the thing survived IDK.

LMFAO!!:happy0157:

The hunt always starts at the end of the season. After almost a year of preparing, scouting and doing all the work involved, I understand your feelings.

I have a buddy that got his first bow this year. I have been trying to get him to get ready. He never did. At least he was smart enough to wait until next year to hunt.

Again I will say, you can be a great shot with a bow, but if you cant judge the yardage right, you will wound or miss, over and over again.... JMO

IMO He needs more than one week to be ready. My girlfriend will be hunting this season and she got her first bow in February. We shoot just about every day and she shooting nice groups out to 25 yards. That being said I feel comfortable taking her in the woods. Now here is the BUT. She is not ready to hunt out of a tree or on a steep grade up or down and anything more than 25 yards is to far. I have told her what I thought her skill level was and she aggrees with me. I have her set up in a ground blind with a max shot of 20 yards on almost level ground and yes I think it is a good spot. Three trails come together. I cut Three shooting lanes for her with brush at the ends and marked the trees at 10,15 and 20 yards with the same colors as her sight pins. So IMO if you like the guy help him out. He may need more than a week but I think that if he works on it he can still make it in the woods this season. But make sure he knows his skill level. If you don't like him tell him he can't hunt on your land.

IMO There is a difference between good/great bow shooters and good/great bow hunters.

Yes. most folks can pick up a compound bow and get good groups on a stationary target at 15-20 yards but, as you well know, there is a huge difference between knowing when and how to shoot at an inert bag at 15-20 yards and knowing when and how to shoot at a live animal at any yardage.

If all it took to be a good/great bow hunter was good groups on a bag at 15-20 yards then there would a whole lot less:

Great post. I'd like to add that I haven't yet encountered any "target" that makes my heart start beating so hard that I would swear the shooter next to me is going to hear it, makes me have to fight to control my breathing so I don't pass out or makes me struggle to keep my legs from shaking as I get ready to draw. It just reinforces the fact that shooting at a target and shooting at a deer are two totally different things.

In response to the original question, I don't think that you're wrong at all. Strangely enough I'm pretty much in the exact same situation. My brother-in-law from Arizona is on a construction job in the area and will be staying with us every weekend for about the next year. (Yippee.) He's a gun enthusiast and he's a great shot, but he's never hunted big game and he's never shot a bow. He wants to buy a bow and bowhunt with me. I would have no problem putting him on "a decent" stand once he's gotten some practice under his belt, but as to whether or not I put him on my best stands would depend on quite a few factors. For instance, he smokes. I don't want any smoking on my stands and I don't care how many deer other smokers have killed. Also, even if he is a good shot within a week or two, what kind of hunter will he be? Is he going to constantly fidget, move, stand up and stretch and get busted by everything that enters the area? I don't want someone that does that in my best spots - I've worked hard to find those spots and get set up. How will he perform under pressure? There are so many factors and in the end it would be totally up to me. There isn't really any "right" or "wrong". If he demonstrates what I consider to be good hunting practices then I'd have no problem putting him on my best spots, but not before that. Is that selfish? Maybe, but I won't have any trouble sleeping at night.

you never know how a great shooter will react when in a hunting situation, or a good shooter or a novice shooter either

therefore YOU shouldn't judge someone else based on nothing more than he hasn't shot long

there is your problem

I don't know about everyone else, but I'm not saying that I'm going to judge someone based on the fact that he or she hasn't shot long. What I AM saying is that I'm not going to put just any first time hunter on my best stands until I HAVE had a chance to judge them. I've put a lot of effort into those set-ups and I have that right.

expect people to do the same to you - and seriously I mean that, because I'm certain you know what it feels like to be on the ass end of that statement

Yeah, in hindsight, you're right. Even if the guy demonstrates that he'll take any shot at any range and has almost no experience, there's no reason he can't hunt my best spots with my blessing. I think I'll take the janitor from work out bow hunting next weekend. Hey, he's never picked up a compound bow before, but there's plenty of time to get him ready and get him out on my stand.

I have no problem with that. I would expect them to do the same where I'm concerned. I don't know you from Adam and before I'd put you in one of my best spots I'd have to know more about you. Frankly, before I go hunting with someone at all I want to know more about them. I am friendly to everyone that I meet, both in person and on the forums. I am, however, very particular about who I spend personal time with and especially who I hunt with. If that offends you, well, okay. Like I said, I can live with that and I'll sleep just fine at night.

Everyone assumes the brother-in-law is going to be a terrible shot...let him pick up a bow and see how he does. It may come natural to him, you won't know until he is in a stand drilling arrows into a 3D target.

I agree, you've done all the work, so if you put him up wind of you then I would tell him what you are doing and why. It may provide the motivation your brother-in-law needs to get out in the field with you and work together increasing your hunting spots.

Unfortunately, to me this thread is beginning to smell of the "bow hunters vs the orange army" complaining I hear all the time. Some really elitist comments from some of you that in my opinion, further divide the gun hunters from the bow hunters.

We are all hunters, so help each other out.....get a bow in his hand as soon as you can and help him understand the differences between the two. My dad quit hunting last year and a buddy I bow hunt with all the time is calling it quits as well. Don' turn away those that are interested and don't use them for your benefit as well, be upfront with them and I'm sure things will work out in everyone's favor.