I bought a six pack of these heads off ebay just to try out. The guidelines say that I should use the UBAR however for these heads since I' m shooting carbons. I haven' t been able to find them on-line, but on the NAP websight, all they look like is a rubber o-ring. Is this all they are? Could I just use any o-ring that would fit in there, or should I stick with the actual UBAR' s from NAP?

Any suggestions? If I need to use those specific kinds, is there a place on-line that I can order them?

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/archery-experts/ubars.html

Try here.The ubar is a metal dapter that makes up for the size difference of the carbon shaft and the broadhead base.It is different from the o ring used to snug the head and align the blades.The thunderhead is one of the best flying fixed blade heads.

CB

thank ya.

Jerry, I use t-head 125`s all the time with beman ISC 400 series carbons. They do not need UBAR`s. I have used the t-heads with other carbons that did though.

If you don`t find some UBAR`s, let me know, I`ll drop a handful in an envelope and send `em your way.

Big... if you ain' t using em... [&:]

I' m shooting the ICS 340' s, so they are a bit smaller in diameter. I haven' t even tried shooting them yet, so I' m not sure if they need them or not. Maybe I' ll pull out the old broadhead target and fire a few through tonight to see how they fly.

Anybody have experience with the ICS 340' s and Thunderheads minus UBAR' s? What is the diameter difference between the 340' s and 400' s?

Thanks for the offer Big, I might take you up on that if you don' t mind.

First let me say congrats on your nice Bear! Of course I still don' t think it' s fair you getting all that hunting in so early As for the thunderheads and UBAR' s. In my testing the only time it matterd was when shooting the thunderheads into a hard object on a carbon arrow. The O-ring would get crushed making the blades loose and subject to fall out. By using the UBAR' s it makes a more secure fit and this helps the head retain the blades. For deer size critters you may never see a differnce as far as preformance on game goes, but for large animals like you hunt I would not consider using thunderheads on carbons without the UBAR' s. If you notice now NAP is now selling " thunderheads for carbon" packs with the UBAR' s included, their is a reason for this. I think you will find the thunders to be excellent in every way, sharper than your Muzzys, but not as easy to work with.

I shoot Thunderhead 85' s, and I did alot of testing with the UBAR' s; shooting w/o them, though they still flew well accuracy and groups wernt near as good

Thanks for the insight guys. 5er, in what way will they be harder to work with? Is that sighting in related, or putting them together out of the package? If there is a possibility of blade failure on hard impacts, then I won' t even consider using them without.

Arctic, is their a chance of blade loss without them when using carbon arrows, yes, but I honestly don' t know how big. Plywood and Steel drums don' t really duplicate animals so it' s hard to say for sure. I personaly would not use them with out the UBAR' s. As for not as easy to work with, I mean when it comes to putting them together and if you like to line to line up the blades with the fletch. The O-rings are a pain in the butt. They are however a very well made head.

5 shot, great point about hitting harder objects and crushing the o-ring. I have, on occasion pulled an arrow out of the ground after the fact, and found the blades a little loose. It never bothered me because that meant I had a critter on the ground. Hunting for some of the stuff Jerry gets to hunt, I guess it would be bestto put them on right off.

Whitetails cover 90% of my big game hunting, and my arrows slip through them like butter so I never thought of that.

Jerry, e-mail me an address and I will send some along.