diamondrack

Exactly, sad thing that happen to those dogs.. But, without some sort of management and or control these wolves will be doing this to children/live stock/pets..

m9a9g9i9c

just to be clear about one thing ! In order to have a legal hunting licence in belgium I need to pass a theoretical exam about huntinglaws, all wildlife species, huntable and protected going in detail and a theoretical gun and rifle exam. If I should pass the theory part then only can I try the practical exam which consist of hunters safety course and a clay shoot. I need to make a 5 out of 10 clays with 20 shells coming from any direction without notice. with a righthanded 12 gage when I'm left
Again, just to show you how far the european laws have been upped to prevent dumb decisions being made in wildlife managment; the whole theoretical part is 700 pages with around 35 huntable species and a total of 100 species to be recognized in the field and all of there specs, from breeding to shedding and moulting periods opening seasons etc......
When I talk to hunters they say nowadays hunting is become an armed hike around the fields. And why is that ??? All because some time ago hunters did what they wanted and shot or introduced anything they cared to hunt for and this shifted the whole ecosystem....

So don't talk to me about our guilt or that I am a treehugger, wolf lover or anything else....
The fact is that it's hard to envy people who just need to wander into walmart, pay 19 dollars and can go and hunt their backyard.
You could go and kill about everything and when it's gone introduce or reintroduce as much as you like.....
But I won't blame a wild animal for doing what a wild animal does, introduced or not.

Frank
Belgium

bigcountry

As a person who travels to Europe quite regularly, I can say its a sad state of affairs when it comes to hunting.

You have to jump thru firery hoops over there to hunt and for the most part be privaledged.

They make you take all these canned courses, and supposal efficiency tests.

I pray the US never becomes so controlled. I thank the Lord I was born here. All I can say.

diamondrack

I'm not really sure what you are trying to say, that you had to take a bunch of rediculous tests in order to get your hunting rights or that you feel you are educated and now your are an expert hunter?? Just to let you know it doesn't matter what things your country has made you do in order to injoy the outdoors and do some hunting.. But here we learn from EXPERIENCE, those of us that are addicted to hunting know exactly what I am saying.. We learn from the animals we hunt, scout, watch, and manage.. We learn from our elders, our families, and our peers, we build traditions and memories that mean something..Your stupid tests are not going to give that type of education... And you talk about envy?? Have fun taking your tests and shooting your clays, hopefully you can pass and or have passed so you can get out their and actually start learning something!!

m9a9g9i9c

Go out and learn something ??? I am 37 years old, been in the fields since I could walk, I know a lot about the wildlife, over here and over there. Just because I don't live with my nose under it doesn't prevent me from having the right to speak my mind !
I've hunted more than I can remember and now I'm getting a licence making it legal.
In no way am I making a comparison but I've seen what damage hunters and non hunters can do when trying to favour their way of life and I am glad that here we educate those who want to learn from knowledge and not from experience.
I have a lot of experience but the facts I now know are worth more than my experiences over the years.
I bowhunt and I even can't do that in my own country because of the errors hunters made in the past, not because of treehuggers or animal rights activists. No because of people who call themselves hunters.
basic fact is that taking away or reintroducing an apex predator in any foodchain is asking for a lot of trouble. Thinking hunters can even the balance in that same foodchain is a load of cr@p.

PS; I read more than national geographic and watch more than animal planet.....

Frank
Belgium

homers brother

Be careful. "Facts" are only as credible as the research behind them. There's a very distinct difference between the facts as you suggest them regarding animals, biology, etc., and whatever version you've been presented of history. Europeans long ago decided that there would be one "apex predator" - man. Tell me again what's good about European wildlife management? You've soiled your home range, and now you want to soil ours with contrived "facts".

That you value and pride yourself to be more what you've read and heard, rather than what you've lived, says a lot about your posts.

bigcountry

Total bullcrap. I spent a lot of time in Belgium, and know that there are more tree huggin non-hunters than are actual hunters. Simple math. Land is at a premium there. Just like the UK, and foxhunting, it was about privaledge and weathy against the lower class.

I like you Frank, but the picture your trying to portray is an incorrect one.

roo3006

Been on both sides of the fence on this one. It was cool the first time I seen them and heard them howl.
But things have changed, They have turned into a nuisance. Way to many of them in the U/P of michigan.
Now it looks like they have crossed the straits on mackinaw and have a solid breeding population in the lower penisula. Its realy sad what these beloved wolves ( by some) have done to the U/P of Michigan. I have seen with my own eye's what they are and have lost all respect I ever had for them.
I not a deer hunter, but spend a lot of time grouse hunting. It sure is sad to see how the eco system has changed. Can't hardly go any where and not see or find evidence of wolves.
Tell you what, If I never see a wolf again it won't hurt my feelings any.

m9a9g9i9c

Big C, I like you to, but I can only talk about what I hear.
Most instructors are old hunters and all of them tell the same story. One guy does something dumb and the green parties are on it like flies on sh1t. Blowing the whole thing up and the public opinion does the rest. Now who's to blame ?
You are right that we live in a small country where huntable land is hard to come by. We hunt under the public's nose. So we tread lightly.
But I have the same respect for foxes as for wolves, when they are managed like any other wildlife.

F.

LittleChief

I've sat and read through a lot of these "anti-wolf" threads and for the most part I take what's said with a grain of salt. I prefer to keep my opinions on this to myself - mostly because I couldn't disagree with you more and partly because I don't have the time nor do I have the inclination to argue over the internet.

Your statement above, however, does make me want to voice an opinion. Let me emphasize "opinion" because that's exactly what it is - my opinion. You and many others won't agree with it. You probably won't even like it, but as they say: Oh well.

Above, you essentially said that without some sort of management and/or control wolves would be killing children / livestock / pets. I take it that the "management / control" you refer to is killing them. While I disagree with the view, I'll concede that where livestock is concerned, you may be correct in that it would be the only sure-fire way to prevent some degree of predation. When it comes to children and pets, however, exterminating wolves is a cop-out.

If there are apex predators in the area, a responsible parent or pet owner should keep both protected and out of harms way, and that does not necessitate killing all the wolves, bears, cougars, poisonous snakes, etc. in the country.

How typically human (or inhumane) of us to see a threat and react by condoning the extermination of the entire species instead of taking precautions and learning to co-exist with it. Hell, let's not limit it to the animal kingdom. We practically did the same thing to the Native Americans. Let's see - they live where we want to live and they're capable of killing us so let's exterminate them. It's the only viable solution, right?

No it is not, just in case you were wondering.