Distance Ethics?
06-12-2003, 03:16 PM
#11
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Panama City Beach FL USA
Posts: 282
RE: Distance Ethics?
What is to stop a deer from moving at 12 yards? If it going to move it is going to move. If your set up covers 12 yards in .5 sec and the other guys covers 40 yards in the same time, rationalize it how you may, but their is no difference. If you are comfortable and confident at 40, shoot to 40. Train like you hunt and hunt like you train. Everyone has their own opinion and this is mine.
06-12-2003, 08:16 PM
#12
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,862
RE: Distance Ethics?
Echoing what has been said, but with a bit of paraphrasing; each shooter has to ask him/herself and be totally honest with his/herself…………
" Under what conditions have I acquired the confidence and comfort to take a shot at a live animal at a distance that is considered to be greater than the norm, under " real life" conditions? On the range, having ample time to make the shot, during favorable weather, under windless conditions, and while standing in range-form? Or…. from the many successful long-distance kills I have made under many " real life" conditions during varied weather conditions?
As said, the difference between shooting a painted spot on burlap or a rubber deer, and a live animal that can move in the blink of an eye, is huge.
" Under what conditions have I acquired the confidence and comfort to take a shot at a live animal at a distance that is considered to be greater than the norm, under " real life" conditions? On the range, having ample time to make the shot, during favorable weather, under windless conditions, and while standing in range-form? Or…. from the many successful long-distance kills I have made under many " real life" conditions during varied weather conditions?
As said, the difference between shooting a painted spot on burlap or a rubber deer, and a live animal that can move in the blink of an eye, is huge.
06-12-2003, 08:17 PM
#13
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma USA
Posts: 254
RE: Distance Ethics?
For me 40 yrds is max, and only under perfect conditions. At that distance I really think about it. I have made killing shots at that distance, and I have passed on 40 yrd broadside and quartering away shots because of wind, uncertainty of clear arrow path, and deer behavior.
Oh I am very good on the practice range at 40, but to shoot at a live animal is much different. Ive learned from experience that alot can go wrong from the time of release to the point of impact, even at 10 to 15 yrds.
I feel horrible when things go wrong and a wounded animal is the result. Hey, this is hunting and things do go wrong. Even the surest of shots dont always end up that way. If I make a shot within my comfort zone and something goes wrong I feel very bad, but I can go on to hunt again. I would have to do some real soul searching if I wounded an animal on a marginal shot that was made outside of my comfort zone. Over 30 yrs of hunting and over 50 deer taken and I have only wounded one deer.
KE has never entered my mind when drawing on an animal, the kill zone and my comfort zone are all that matter at full draw.
Oh I am very good on the practice range at 40, but to shoot at a live animal is much different. Ive learned from experience that alot can go wrong from the time of release to the point of impact, even at 10 to 15 yrds.
I feel horrible when things go wrong and a wounded animal is the result. Hey, this is hunting and things do go wrong. Even the surest of shots dont always end up that way. If I make a shot within my comfort zone and something goes wrong I feel very bad, but I can go on to hunt again. I would have to do some real soul searching if I wounded an animal on a marginal shot that was made outside of my comfort zone. Over 30 yrs of hunting and over 50 deer taken and I have only wounded one deer.
KE has never entered my mind when drawing on an animal, the kill zone and my comfort zone are all that matter at full draw.
06-12-2003, 10:35 PM
#14
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: El Cajon California USA
Posts: 177
RE: Distance Ethics?
personally i think that it is the person who is shooting the bow that makes that decision if they can put up with wounding an animal thats their problem not anyone elses. On the other hand if a guy put a post on about how a guy got the world record deer at 100 yrds with a bow we would all think it was a good shot.
06-12-2003, 10:49 PM
#15
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Burleson TX USA
Posts: 6,455
RE: Distance Ethics?
My personal comfort range at a live animal is 15 to 25 yrds altho I practice out to 50 plus yards.
To me it is not how far I can shoot an animal it is how close I can get to one.
To me it is not how far I can shoot an animal it is how close I can get to one.
06-13-2003, 07:45 AM
#17
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jamestown SC USA
Posts: 760
RE: Distance Ethics?
I think that every year, many a good archer practices in his back yard and gets to the point of stacking arrows in tight groups at long yardages and comes to firmly believe that they can kill any animal that comes within that range. At some point, be it this season or next, they will have an animal well within that range and they draw and shoot with total confidence...and something goes wrong. At this point the animal either runs off unscathed, or much worse, with a non-fatal arrow stuck in the wrong place. It is at this point and only this point that they will come to realize that hunting situations are never perfect and there is an absolute multitude of things that can go wrong in the woods that would never happen in their back yard. They will also realize that the occasional bad shot on a rubber deer causes absolutely no harm to anyone. Once they get the wonderful experience of laying in bed knowing that there is an animal out there somewhere with a 1" plus broadhead stuck in it and suffering badly, they will begin to realize what the seasoned bowhunters who have been there and done that are talking about.
IF you can make a non-fatal hit on an animal, knowing that you have caused that animal to suffer greatly and go home and sleep well, then by all means shoot as far as you can see them. You are the only one that has to live with it, well, besides the animal that is. Let your conscience be your guide.
The seasoned bowhunters are trying to save the new ones from a sickening experience, but sadly most of the new ones still have to see it for themselves before they will understand. Taking long range shots will get them there in a hurry.
Just one more little story along these lines. I' m currently teaching my daughter' s boyfriend to shoot. I got home one afternoon a couple of weeks ago and he was there and had been shooting earlier that day. He proudly announced that he had been tearing up the twelve ring on every shot at twenty yards. He even robin hooded one of his arrows. I was excited for him so I told him I wanted to watch him shoot. He had a friend with him that afternoon, so we all went out to the back yard. His first shot nailed the deer right in the base of the tail. After we managed to quit laughing our arses off, I told him " Congratulations, you just got you first whitetail. Of course, that' s all you got!" I' m still cracking up over that. Just the pressure of a couple of people watching him made him miss by two feet at twenty yards. Now do the math on a seventy yard shot with buck fever.
IF you can make a non-fatal hit on an animal, knowing that you have caused that animal to suffer greatly and go home and sleep well, then by all means shoot as far as you can see them. You are the only one that has to live with it, well, besides the animal that is. Let your conscience be your guide.
The seasoned bowhunters are trying to save the new ones from a sickening experience, but sadly most of the new ones still have to see it for themselves before they will understand. Taking long range shots will get them there in a hurry.
Just one more little story along these lines. I' m currently teaching my daughter' s boyfriend to shoot. I got home one afternoon a couple of weeks ago and he was there and had been shooting earlier that day. He proudly announced that he had been tearing up the twelve ring on every shot at twenty yards. He even robin hooded one of his arrows. I was excited for him so I told him I wanted to watch him shoot. He had a friend with him that afternoon, so we all went out to the back yard. His first shot nailed the deer right in the base of the tail. After we managed to quit laughing our arses off, I told him " Congratulations, you just got you first whitetail. Of course, that' s all you got!" I' m still cracking up over that. Just the pressure of a couple of people watching him made him miss by two feet at twenty yards. Now do the math on a seventy yard shot with buck fever.
06-13-2003, 07:51 AM
#18
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 7,571
RE: Distance Ethics?
Great post stickemup. I really enjoyed reading it. Someone here on the board made a quote that has been sticking with me and it is a great piece of advice.
" BOW HUNTING is not a sport to get cocky in, it will eat you up fast."
Notice that the first words are Bow Hunting, not 3-d or target practice.
" BOW HUNTING is not a sport to get cocky in, it will eat you up fast."
Notice that the first words are Bow Hunting, not 3-d or target practice.
06-13-2003, 08:09 AM
#20
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 7,571
RE: Distance Ethics?
What is to stop a deer from moving at 12 yards? If it going to move it is going to move.
A bow shooting at 280 FPS a deer moving at 2 MPH:
At 35 yards a deer can move a little over one foot by the time you shoot and the arrow gets there.
At 12 yards a deer can move a little over four inches.
Remember I am calculating this based on constant speed (deer and arrow), of course the arrow will slow down a lot by the time it gets 35 yards. So the 1 foot measure will be greater.
If you need the calculations let me know.