60# versus 70#...No difference in power? Maybe
02-05-2009, 07:45 PM
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
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RE: 60# versus 70#...No difference in power? Maybe
My bow IBOs right alongside the rest of them in the list, yet I get 10ft/lbs more KE.
I didn't mean your numbers were made up or incorrect for your bow, just that the difference between a 70# bow and 60# bow are greater than this makes it out to be.
Im not saying 60# isn't enough, heck I am going that route myself on the next bow...just saying that there IS a difference between 60-70 lb bows, regardless of speed...its just that with todays numbers, the difference no longer matters. It still exists, but with KE and speeds so high now, either one is WAY more than enough.
Not worth arguing over either way...both poundages are more than enough to tackle anything your or I will likely bowhunt for. The "how faRr into the dirt" question comes to mind here.
I didn't mean your numbers were made up or incorrect for your bow, just that the difference between a 70# bow and 60# bow are greater than this makes it out to be.
Im not saying 60# isn't enough, heck I am going that route myself on the next bow...just saying that there IS a difference between 60-70 lb bows, regardless of speed...its just that with todays numbers, the difference no longer matters. It still exists, but with KE and speeds so high now, either one is WAY more than enough.
Not worth arguing over either way...both poundages are more than enough to tackle anything your or I will likely bowhunt for. The "how faRr into the dirt" question comes to mind here.
02-06-2009, 04:45 PM
#22
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jun 2007
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RE: 60# versus 70#...No difference in power? Maybe
Trevor, Your longer (by 1") draw length than the OP's makes a difference as well. If you were an inch shorter even your fairly fast 70# compound would be closer than it seems now. From your original post I'm thinking 316fps with a 350 grain arrow since you called it IBO. Down an inch in draw would be (approx.) 306fps with the same 350 grain arrow yielding less than 73# KE
One thing for sure several 50# bows now pack more than enough punch to take down NA Game.
Dan
One thing for sure several 50# bows now pack more than enough punch to take down NA Game.
Dan
02-08-2009, 04:37 AM
#23
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 393
RE: 60# versus 70#...No difference in power? Maybe
Let me try to make my point in a different way:
Someone post the question: "I'm going on a moose hunt, I've got a Brute or X3 pulling 70# at 28'' draw, is it enough for moose?" The replies will be... Yes.
Same moose hunt, but the person is now using a 58# X Force. The replies might include comments about trying to increase draw weight, use heavy arrows or cut on contact heads.
Ironically there is no power difference in the two bows.[:@]
Another example:
"I just bought a new Martin Mamba recurve pulling 50 LB @ 28'' I'll be shooting 500 grain arrows at 177 fps (35# KE / .39 momentum) is it enough for black bears over bait?" The answers will be... Yes
Same black bear hunt over bait, except the equipment is different:"I shoot a Equalizer set on 40 LB it shoots a 380 grain arrow @ 213 fps ( 38# KE / .38 momentum)" Do you think the answers will still be yes? I don't; they will say turn up the draw weight.
Ironically there is no power difference in the two bows.[:@]
That's the point of the thread, in both of my examples the bows produce the same power, butyou know the replies would be like I said. See the problem?
Someone post the question: "I'm going on a moose hunt, I've got a Brute or X3 pulling 70# at 28'' draw, is it enough for moose?" The replies will be... Yes.
Same moose hunt, but the person is now using a 58# X Force. The replies might include comments about trying to increase draw weight, use heavy arrows or cut on contact heads.
Ironically there is no power difference in the two bows.[:@]
Another example:
"I just bought a new Martin Mamba recurve pulling 50 LB @ 28'' I'll be shooting 500 grain arrows at 177 fps (35# KE / .39 momentum) is it enough for black bears over bait?" The answers will be... Yes
Same black bear hunt over bait, except the equipment is different:"I shoot a Equalizer set on 40 LB it shoots a 380 grain arrow @ 213 fps ( 38# KE / .38 momentum)" Do you think the answers will still be yes? I don't; they will say turn up the draw weight.
Ironically there is no power difference in the two bows.[:@]
That's the point of the thread, in both of my examples the bows produce the same power, butyou know the replies would be like I said. See the problem?
02-08-2009, 07:14 PM
#24
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Henderson, KY
Posts: 1,760
RE: 60# versus 70#...No difference in power? Maybe
Dan and OHbowhunter:
I also had a 101st and shot the 82nd quite a bit, and I know the 82nd is quieter and more shock free. I couldnt believe it myself tbh[:-] I traded my general for the 101st and i had never even shot an 82nd. Wish i had[&:] I thought it seemed just as smooth too.
Derek
I also had a 101st and shot the 82nd quite a bit, and I know the 82nd is quieter and more shock free. I couldnt believe it myself tbh[:-] I traded my general for the 101st and i had never even shot an 82nd. Wish i had[&:] I thought it seemed just as smooth too.
Derek
02-08-2009, 07:28 PM
#25
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Eldred, PA
Posts: 1,667
RE: 60# versus 70#...No difference in power? Maybe
ORIGINAL: TEmbry
Like I said, you are still wrong on how big the difference is. My Hoyt Vectrix IBO's 316, and my setup at 29" 70# is cranking right over 80ft/lbs of KE. Your 340-350 IBO XForce at 58#s is putting out
Like I said, you are still wrong on how big the difference is. My Hoyt Vectrix IBO's 316, and my setup at 29" 70# is cranking right over 80ft/lbs of KE. Your 340-350 IBO XForce at 58#s is putting out
02-08-2009, 07:31 PM
#26
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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RE: 60# versus 70#...No difference in power? Maybe
ORIGINAL: MeanV2
Trevor, Your longer (by 1") draw length than the OP's makes a difference as well. If you were an inch shorter even your fairly fast 70# compound would be closer than it seems now. From your original post I'm thinking 316fps with a 350 grain arrow since you called it IBO. Down an inch in draw would be (approx.) 306fps with the same 350 grain arrow yielding less than 73# KE
One thing for sure several 50# bows now pack more than enough punch to take down NA Game.
Dan
Trevor, Your longer (by 1") draw length than the OP's makes a difference as well. If you were an inch shorter even your fairly fast 70# compound would be closer than it seems now. From your original post I'm thinking 316fps with a 350 grain arrow since you called it IBO. Down an inch in draw would be (approx.) 306fps with the same 350 grain arrow yielding less than 73# KE
One thing for sure several 50# bows now pack more than enough punch to take down NA Game.
Dan
im-ocd...I understand what your last post is saying and it makes solid sense. Laws and regs should be based on KE output rather than straight draw weight...but it is unrealistic to expect the entire bowhunting community to know how to compute KE for their setup....Draw weight is a much more achievable cut off system, everyone can measure that. These new speed bows sure are pushing the upper limits, and relatively speaking...are fixing to top out it seems.
I read an article on hunter's friend about a 400 fps bow and if it is possible....they crunched the numbers and came to the conclusion that the efficiency of todays best cam systems would have to GREATLY improve, but if they did 400 fps is possible at 70# 30" at over 5" BH. But realistically, they said to expect to see shootability be added into the numbers screaming bows are posting right now as efficiency ratings are improved...In other words, expect a bow that pulls and shoots like Mathews smoothest model to post Xforce speeds eventually...but for the speed freaks, they are pretty muchreaching their limit here soon....and for it to get higher, the draws will only have to get worse.
02-08-2009, 07:32 PM
#27
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RE: 60# versus 70#...No difference in power? Maybe
ORIGINAL: fingerz42
I've seen pictures of you and you look no taller than 5'9... how do you have a 29" DL...?
ORIGINAL: TEmbry
Like I said, you are still wrong on how big the difference is. My Hoyt Vectrix IBO's 316, and my setup at 29" 70# is cranking right over 80ft/lbs of KE. Your 340-350 IBO XForce at 58#s is putting out
Like I said, you are still wrong on how big the difference is. My Hoyt Vectrix IBO's 316, and my setup at 29" 70# is cranking right over 80ft/lbs of KE. Your 340-350 IBO XForce at 58#s is putting out
Im 6'1" as of 1+ years ago, probably closer to 6'2" now....[&:]
02-08-2009, 07:40 PM
#29
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: 60# versus 70#...No difference in power? Maybe
Ke would not be a good way to figure minimum to hunt with.Momentum should be used instead.A traditional rig puts out very little ke but has some huge momentum numbers due to arrow weight but low "ibo" speeds.
I actually like how ky does it,no minimum whatesoever.Just get out there and hunt.
I actually like how ky does it,no minimum whatesoever.Just get out there and hunt.
02-08-2009, 07:55 PM
#30
Nontypical Buck
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RE: 60# versus 70#...No difference in power? Maybe
Trevor, At the ATA show, supposedly PSE let the BowTurbo people try out the Omen with a BowTurbo and an IBO arrow. I believe... they said it went 368fps! That is screaming for sure, an i think it will be wayyyyy faster than any other bow we are going to see (that uses the 5gpp rule) so I think its pretty safe to say that we are getting pretty close to being maxed out, but... you never know what someone mighthave pulled up their sleeve.
Derek
Derek