PA Crossbow vote........4-3 *UPDATE Page 6*
01-27-2009, 11:04 AM
#14
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location:
Posts: 7,367
RE: PA Crossbow vote........4-3
I have shared the80 acres I hunt with 2 Crossbow hunters the last 2years. It is no problem with me because they use crossbows. I've killed more deer than the 2 of them combined.
I wish they would hunt a little smarter as far as the wind is concerned, but I learned pretty quick to use what they do to my advantage
Dan
I wish they would hunt a little smarter as far as the wind is concerned, but I learned pretty quick to use what they do to my advantage
Dan
01-27-2009, 11:11 AM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hughesville, PA
Posts: 2,590
RE: PA Crossbow vote........4-3
Can't say it's surprising. Won't affect what I am trying to do on my main bowhunting piece. More pressure around the cabin land from state, it actually may help. I will bet that I find a few more tresspassers though.
PS. Matt, good to see ya back. Met your brother in law the other night at Gander? Hope things are well.
PS. Matt, good to see ya back. Met your brother in law the other night at Gander? Hope things are well.
01-27-2009, 11:23 AM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Virginia / West Virginia
Posts: 4,906
RE: PA Crossbow vote........4-3
ORIGINAL: Finch
Virginia went that way a few years or so ago. Welcome to the club.[&o] The state wants more revenue and this is one way to do it.
Virginia went that way a few years or so ago. Welcome to the club.[&o] The state wants more revenue and this is one way to do it.
WV....well they still don't have it. Of course over there they use the .223 instead of a bow during any season they want anyways, so they wouldn't use them anyhow
01-27-2009, 11:51 AM
#18
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
RE: PA Crossbow vote........4-3
Here is some actual discussion that happened at the meeting and just how really messed up the voting process is when you think about it. 7.....yes 7 people make this decision for the entire state and I think only one has bowhunted at all?
They are smart people, but it's quite apparent that there isn't really a concensus on what should or shouldn't be done. In the end 1 person.........ONE made the deciding vote to bring crossbows to our archery season:
Just read the differing views among several of the commissioners who voted. The process really boggles my mind.
Commissioner Weaner:
My vote on the crossbow issue will be no:
Felt overwhelmingly hunters were opposed to them.
Felt it was foolish to upset the majority of PA hunters.
He felt there would not be the big recruitment as many proclaimed.
Just saw no up side for inclusion.
Commissioner Boop:
I intend to vote no.
Stated that for two years he was the President of the BOC. In that position he controlled the dissemination of information to the BOC. In that time he never saw crossbows on the radar.
In June of last year one commissioner suggested we look at it. Seven months later here we are on a final vote to approve it.
The BOC has always moved slow. Slow and methodical on bear archery, deer management, and other seasons and initiatives (he had a long list).
Why the rush on this??
He stated, every commissioner got 500 to a 1000 emails and letters on this issue. The urban areas more on the high side. In his emails, it went 90/10. 90% opposed inclusion. He was hearing the same from other commissioners.
He agreed with Commissioner Weaner, that the BOC was going to annoy hunters and harm the six week archery season.
He suggested that it was legislative interference and threats driving this vote. Mentioned that regardless of the vote by the BOC, members of the legislature have indicated they would introduce bills to stop inclusion, or mandate inclusion. Legislative interference is the last thing we (hunters) need.
Suggested options for, and types of info needed to be studied. Stated that if this is such a good proposal now, it will still be a good proposal in 2010. Lets do due diligence on this and not rush.
He noted that the BOC is changing. There will be three new commissioners on board by next year. They will need to deal with the fallout of this decision. Doesn't seem fair.
Vote this down, or table it and do the due diligence.
Commissioner Boop then made a formal amendment proposal to table the agenda item.
Amendment failed 3-4
Yeahs: Boop, Weaner, Delaney
Commissioner Palone:
State there are fears that support for wildlife management will suffer by individuals and groups. She didn't think that would happen.
Hunting is losing numbers. Stated the average age of hunters in this state is the same as the population average of Florida.
She stated that the crossbow will not ruin archery season. Used other examples of gloom and doom predictions of things the GC passed.
Suggested all look at the big picture. Used organized groups with a real and active agenda to do away with hunting in Allegheny County as an example.
Commissioner Schleiden:
We are not rushing to judgement on this issue. The history is clear, the UBP has fought this three times over the years. Details are on their website.
The NRA has a hunting division. They responded when they found out about the issue. The commission has gone out of the way for all to be heard.
This is a freedom of choice issue. But it is also a Not In My Backyard (NIMBY) issue. In the end, this will aid in cleaning up the regulations.
On BOC transition to other members. Never was a problem. But with the amendment just passed they will have a chance to put their face on this issue. Stated he was not crazy about the optics and sunset provisions, but made sense with new people coming on board.
In the end the vote went 4-3 for inclusion of crossbows to the regular PA archery season.
They are smart people, but it's quite apparent that there isn't really a concensus on what should or shouldn't be done. In the end 1 person.........ONE made the deciding vote to bring crossbows to our archery season:
Just read the differing views among several of the commissioners who voted. The process really boggles my mind.
Commissioner Weaner:
My vote on the crossbow issue will be no:
Felt overwhelmingly hunters were opposed to them.
Felt it was foolish to upset the majority of PA hunters.
He felt there would not be the big recruitment as many proclaimed.
Just saw no up side for inclusion.
Commissioner Boop:
I intend to vote no.
Stated that for two years he was the President of the BOC. In that position he controlled the dissemination of information to the BOC. In that time he never saw crossbows on the radar.
In June of last year one commissioner suggested we look at it. Seven months later here we are on a final vote to approve it.
The BOC has always moved slow. Slow and methodical on bear archery, deer management, and other seasons and initiatives (he had a long list).
Why the rush on this??
He stated, every commissioner got 500 to a 1000 emails and letters on this issue. The urban areas more on the high side. In his emails, it went 90/10. 90% opposed inclusion. He was hearing the same from other commissioners.
He agreed with Commissioner Weaner, that the BOC was going to annoy hunters and harm the six week archery season.
He suggested that it was legislative interference and threats driving this vote. Mentioned that regardless of the vote by the BOC, members of the legislature have indicated they would introduce bills to stop inclusion, or mandate inclusion. Legislative interference is the last thing we (hunters) need.
Suggested options for, and types of info needed to be studied. Stated that if this is such a good proposal now, it will still be a good proposal in 2010. Lets do due diligence on this and not rush.
He noted that the BOC is changing. There will be three new commissioners on board by next year. They will need to deal with the fallout of this decision. Doesn't seem fair.
Vote this down, or table it and do the due diligence.
Commissioner Boop then made a formal amendment proposal to table the agenda item.
Amendment failed 3-4
Yeahs: Boop, Weaner, Delaney
Commissioner Palone:
State there are fears that support for wildlife management will suffer by individuals and groups. She didn't think that would happen.
Hunting is losing numbers. Stated the average age of hunters in this state is the same as the population average of Florida.
She stated that the crossbow will not ruin archery season. Used other examples of gloom and doom predictions of things the GC passed.
Suggested all look at the big picture. Used organized groups with a real and active agenda to do away with hunting in Allegheny County as an example.
Commissioner Schleiden:
We are not rushing to judgement on this issue. The history is clear, the UBP has fought this three times over the years. Details are on their website.
The NRA has a hunting division. They responded when they found out about the issue. The commission has gone out of the way for all to be heard.
This is a freedom of choice issue. But it is also a Not In My Backyard (NIMBY) issue. In the end, this will aid in cleaning up the regulations.
On BOC transition to other members. Never was a problem. But with the amendment just passed they will have a chance to put their face on this issue. Stated he was not crazy about the optics and sunset provisions, but made sense with new people coming on board.
In the end the vote went 4-3 for inclusion of crossbows to the regular PA archery season.
01-27-2009, 12:01 PM
#19
Site Buck Guru
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Racine, Wisconsin
Posts: 5,922
RE: PA Crossbow vote........4-3
ORIGINAL: Matt / PA
No magnifying sights. Scopes must have no magnification regardless of reticle type, crosshair or red dot.
I previously thought it was going to allow 1X scopes but that doesn't appear to be the case.......according to the actual amendment discussion and voting:
No magnifying sights. Scopes must have no magnification regardless of reticle type, crosshair or red dot.
I previously thought it was going to allow 1X scopes but that doesn't appear to be the case.......according to the actual amendment discussion and voting:
01-27-2009, 12:08 PM
#20
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
RE: PA Crossbow vote........4-3
ORIGINAL: GregH
Does a 1X scope do anything?
ORIGINAL: Matt / PA
No magnifying sights. Scopes musthave no magnification regardlessof reticle type, crosshair or red dot.
I previously thought it was going to allow 1X scopes but that doesn't appear to be the case.......according to the actual amendment discussion and voting:
No magnifying sights. Scopes musthave no magnification regardlessof reticle type, crosshair or red dot.
I previously thought it was going to allow 1X scopes but that doesn't appear to be the case.......according to the actual amendment discussion and voting:
Sounds dumb I knowbut I'm not a big scope gun guy so I really do not know the exact difference between "No magnification" and 1X or if there IS any at all?
