More News from the ATA 366 fps
 

PSE OMEN

RE: More News from the ATA 366 fps
 

Wow, another sub 6" brace height speed bow. No thank you.

Looks like history is coming full circle again. Speed is selling. Looks like all the manufacturers took a break from speed and gave us a bunch of very shootable, smooth bows. Now they want to see what they can get out of them with the technology advancements they have.

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I am with MM on this one! Brace height less than 6, and dual cams! No thanks, O love my shoulders the way they are!

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I'll pass, anyone else think this speed craze is getting out of control??[:-]:eek:

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Yes. I have to have a nice draw cycle foremost in what i shoot. I want a combination of speed and shootability.

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Food for thought guys, low poundage or low draw length shooters can GREATLY benefit from these bows. These guys are getting more speed out of a 50# bow than my smooth 70# bow. And I don't think 50# can possibly be harsh enough to be considered harder to pull than the SMOOTHEST 70#.

Not for me either, but there ARE two sides of the story. I don't get why people act like one bow in a lineup means the companies are only pushing top speeds now? Nearly every company seems to have a very solid lineup of smooth shooters with quick speeds, with only 1 or 2 screamers for the year. Bowtech has the Airborne, Hoyt has the Katera which isn't even much a screamer (only company left it seems to NOT put out a screaming speed bow yet, just doesn't seem up their alley apparently), PSE has the Omen and one or two Xforces that are screamers, elite has the gt500. While there doesn't seem to be any slow bows left, most appear to be built around shooting first, with the exception of one or two bows a year. Smart by the bow manufacturers to me. Just look at all the guys that will flock to the highest speed number they see, regardless how they shoot. Speed freaks need bows too.

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I understand what your saying Trev but honestly, i dont get how anyone could even pick up a sub 6-in brace bow. I dont care that they are making fast bows, its just the extremes that they go to to reach those speeds. You need a little shootability...

RE: More News from the ATA 366 fps
 

Its pretty funny but you all have been in a different range of speed bows than I was. I found that speed wasn't everything when speeds breaking 300 fps was the thing. Now when speed is reaching 366 fps its too fast. You'll find that the more you shoot archery the less the need super speed. Especialy when your talking acuracy. Low brace hieghts and high speeds are alot more unstable than high brace height lower speed bows.

So you shoot for something in the middle. Of course the shootable bows of years ago aren't as fast as the ones today. I think how they have done that is shoot for speed and learn to make it shootable.

But lets face it speed has somehow become the driving force in bow sales. I guess because of people want to brag they have the newest thing and its better than everyone elses. :D

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Makes you wonder... It use to be any bow with a brace height less than 8 inches was unshootable. Now, the number appears to be 6 inches. Wow, could it be that technology is gaining by miles? I have shot the gx cam. It is the smoothest thing I have ever had in my hands. I'm sure the Wright Brothers were told their flying contraption was unsafe and unflyable. Look where we are today!

Wouldn't it be better to flock to the archery stores and shoot one of these "unshootable" bows before discounting it? You might learn something. The world isn't flat...I promise!

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Several people over on AT claimed to have shot them already (dealers at the show apparently), and plenty more people have placed orders without even so much as seeing it first hand, yet:eek: Anyways, those who have shot it, say it shoots very well, especially for a 5.5" brace. The draw was likened to the Xforce, so if you've shot one of those, that may give you a starting point. I won't jump to conclusions on the bow, but I don't like it simply for aesthetic reasons (those giant cams are god awful ugly...so is most of the bow) as well as the short ATA...but to each there own...the archery world would be pretty boring if we all liked the same thing.

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Not exactly true,I can pull some old round whell bows at 100#,but I understand what you are saying and agree to a point.BUT,those cams look rough as hell to me.

We are getting more speed than we used to get but they are doing it the same way.Short brace height and harsh cams but newer products and better equipment are atleast making them half way shootable today.This same bow could have been built 15 years ago but would have shook you to death and would have never stayed together.


I like this cycle with speed bows,atleast it makes the shootable bows even faster for the future.[8D]

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As allways if you have the money to do so (meaning I knowifI test shoot stuff I'd want them)then go for it. I don't, so I'll choose something in the known range first. LOL :D

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Its just the easiest way to gain speed. I'll wager the majority of the guys who buy this bow won't have them long;).

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I own a 6" x-force, and absolutely love it. I dont think you can really form a valid argument against the low brace bows w/dual cams until you practice for a week with one.
The recoil on the x bows is close to zilch, as I can shoot without a sling with hand open, and it wont jump out. Yes, the bows are very un-forgiving, but in terms of accuracy, mine will shoot one inch groups per ten yards out, and the nasty brace height keeps me in form as I know that if I'm out of form, its gonna bite me in the wrist good.

In my opinion, I can't wait untill the local shop gets one of these new ones so I can try it out (of course I wont be able to afford one having just bought my bow, which I am very happy with)!

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Shrewbeer,

Is your X a 2009 model? The new GX camsare amazing!they have totally eliminated the harsh back wall and creep associated withlast year'scams. I ordered a 09 SS and have an 08 #80 X-F-6". The 08 is a tack driver. I suspect the 09 will be much the same.

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Holy crap Huck, that 80#er must blaze!

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I use to shoot a Bowtech Black Knight 2, and I think it had a 5.5" brace height. I can't remember exactly, but I could shoot that thing very well. I mean really accurate. I've only got a 27" draw length though so that might have helped Me a little bit. I could shoot 27" draw 62 pounds peaked out with a 320 grain arrow at 310 fps. I was pretty happy with it. I just started looking for smaller bows is the only reason I got rid of it. Quite a few deer, and 1 turkey died because of the BK2. It seems now though I try to look at bows above 6.5" brace height. Even though I never seemed to have a problem with that one.

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Al,

I have a single pin that's good out to forty yards.I bought the bow to use on dangerous game in Africa. Hopefully a hippo and cape buff will be on the receiving end of it's delivery system. I haven't put it through a chrono yet.

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I had a feeling that was what you had it for. Good luck with it!:)

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Last week MeanV, GregH, TFOX, and Doug all informed me that my bow was obviously sighted in wrong(which it was) as even an arrow traveling at 400 fps will have too much drop for a one pin sight to be usedout to 40 yds. I also learned 3 years ago on this site, that a 70# bow doesn't really shoot any faster than a 60# bow; just a a gain in kinetic energy, as a 70# bow requires heavier arrow than the 60#. Hense, the 80# bow will be nice for Kinetic energy on big, heavy skinned, dangerous game. No real speed advantage, just kinetic energy.

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That was because you said your single pin was sighted in to 20 yards. If the pin is sighted in to 28-30 yards, it may work out to 40 yards.

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Yea...I was high by 3" at 20 yds...hense my results.

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Food for thought here guys.


I was able to shoot this bow and put my hands on it. Yes, it has a 5.5" brace height, but instead of them reflexing the riser more, to cut down brace height, they just put shorter limbs on it. Sort of like how the 82nd and 101st were built. So, truly, this bow is probably NOT going to shoot much different than the XForce 6. Something I also like about this bow, from a shooters perspective, is that it's a draw length specific bow. Draw length specific are usually more efficient when you start dropping draw lengths.

RE: More News from the ATA 366 fps
 

Don,

You are more than likely right about the speed. I am definitley shooting a heavier arrow out of the #80 pound bow verses say a #70. I have not chronoed the bow yet. Chances are, it may even be slower than 330 fps. I'm ok with that. It definitleyhas the kenetic energy you mentioned.

The bow shoots extremely flat. I like having a yardage pin for 20, 30, 40, etc. But, in the case of this bow, the pins are so thighly stack. It makes it very difficult to acquire a spot when you have three pins laying on top of each other (does that make sense?).

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Yes it does. I went with a one pin for my new 82nd for the same reason. At 3" high at 20...I am in the kill zone at 40 and that is good enough for my everyday hunting methods in the midwest. 99% of my shots in the midwest on deer will be within 20 yds and I will just aim a little low on my animal. Turkey shots in blinds tend to be longer and the speed bow is a blessing there. I do most of my hunting from a treestand, but now that I am single and $$ is back to being in my wallet, hunting trips are on high priority. I am moose hunting Alaska in 2010, planning antelope, mule deer, and more elk trips too. I will tune my one pin for 40 yds for these western and Alaska hunts where a 40 yd plus shot may be the norm. My elk this sept was a 40 yd shot with a multi pin sight out of my Guardian. I believe that the speed bows definately have their place out west, alaska, and africa. In a treestand in IA/MO...not real important. My 3 bucks and 1 doe this year were all shot within 5-20 yds of my stand. That has been the norm for the last 25 years of my midwest treestand bowhunting career.

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No argument from me! I hosed myself this year on a dandy buck in S. Dokata. I had my 78 pound bow in the tree with me. It was cold, I had been in the tree all day. I had the buck and a doe drifting in and out for two hours towards the end of the day. When it came time to draw, I couldn't pull the bow back (tried eight times). I had been so cold; I was literally shaking in the tree. My muscles were completely fatiqued. First time that ever happened to me...

The next day, I hunted with my 60 pounder (killed a turkey that morning).

I amlearning more and more that there is a time and a place for everything! Having the right tool for the task at hand is also critical. Hunting ducks with a rifle, for example, is not the right tool for the job. It just doesn't make sense to use a massive draw weight bow in tight cover were shots are extremely close. But, out west, Alaska (caribou), and Africa (buffs/hippos/elephants)...whole nother story.

Shoot me a PM when you're heading back this way.

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Some good info on this thread.

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[quote]ORIGINAL: iamyourhuckleberry

Will do..it would be a pleasure to meet you.

WTF's the deal with everyone shooting down the speed bows out there? I've had 2 80# X-FORCE HF's and have a 70# OMEN coming in, I love the speed and kinetic energy these bows put out.
You guys can't tell me you wouldn't like the idea of shooting one pin out to 40yards at atleast 330+FPS.
I've had a 70# Mathews Switchback and it was a real nice bow but I'll never go back.

I'd bet if alot of you guys ripping on the speed bows tried one of them for a week you'd love'm.

Hell if I achieve 295-300fps im a happy camper.

1. ANYONE can shoot one pin out to 40yds....IF they compensate for being high at shorter distances (or low, on extremely short distances).

2. NO ONE can shoot one pin flat to 40 yds (or even 30).

Physics laws do not lie.

X1000000000

Thanks GMMAT. Before we get all this nonsense started lol!

I shot my X6 at 340fps and did the whole "1 pin out to 30yds" thing. I had my pin set at 20 and tried it. At 30, it was a few inches low on my yellow jacket. Could have killed the deer yes, but still a few inches low.

At 40! Didnt even hit the bag...

So I did it with my 30 pin. about 2" high at 20, and 5" low at 40.

Compensating with the 30 wouldnt be too bad, but with the 20, nooooo way!!!

BTW, I drew back on a deer yesterday with my Omen:cool2: I was ready to send my 530gr. 2514 her way but unfortunately they came in down wind(probably trailed me up out of curiosity) and only came within 40 yards. The bow shoots just as well as any other setup that ive shot at hunting distances. I have yet to shoot it out at 60-70(only have my furthest pin out to 40 as of now) but I imagine it will hold its own. I was shooting on average 5-7" groups(including flyers on my good days) with my X6 at 60 yards so I imagine with the Omen the groups wouldnt be much worse if any.

Derek

Would you buy a car based solely on the color? Then why do people buy bows based solely on their FPS...? Seems a bit stupid myself..

Whose bright idea was it to kick the dust off this thread???:busted::biggrin::biggrin:

The Omen doesn't shoot like a short Brace height bow. Thing shoots good- seriously.

So by the sounds of it we should all be shooting PSE Brutes, with a 8-1/8" BH, a 300-308 fps IBO, parallel limbs, 80% let off ,single cam. geez sounds like the perfect bow, but i bet there's alot of people that would not like it and would pick a "speed" bow over it and would even shoot alot better groups with speed bow. So basically shoot whatever bow YOU want to shoot, if YOU like it and it shoots well for YOU thats all that matters, who gives a rats ass what others say about the bow and who cares if they tell you that it's going to be innacurate because of it's speed and low BH they aren't the ones shooting it so who gives a ****. Tell em to stick it where the sun don't shine ;).

Watched some online reviews of these "speed" bows, they weren't very speedy when using a 380-400 grn arrow. Only the Mathews bow exceeded the 290 mark.

I shot one, ya know when somethings weighing on you, a job that's difficult but you just do it and then something comes along that will make that job so much easier and you feel like a weight has been lifted, that bow was it. It's like going into the woods caring nothing, a real lean mean hunting machine.

I dont know about that. I have a PSE BowMadness XS I tried different setups with arrows. I tried GT 7595 400 gr 386 gr with the 400 gr I was getting 294 fps with the 386 gr i was getting 297 fps. So then I tried GT 22's at 366 gr now im getting 305 fps. with a 30" draw 68.8 lb and all the arrows cut to 29". So I don’t know if the site you are referencing is not being bias toward Mathews.
Im not saying that i have one of those speed bows but i do think that if you play with arrow weights youcan get the speed or close to the speed that they say. JMO

I guess I should clarify myself about the 1 pin to 40yards topic. I do use only 1 pin out to 40 and I do have to compensate a little for the drop but the idea of using 1 pin is pretty cool to me.
I shoot a speed bow because that's what I like, it may not be for everyone and I'm not saying everyone should try them, theres just a lot of people on a lot of forums that putdown the speed bows. SHOOT WHAT YOU'RE HAPPY WITH!!!
I'm looking to get as much speed as possible from every bow I own and the next one is my new OMEN.

True. If you are a fan of speed, you will find it with the omen:s4: Mine shot 356 right outta the box.

Thats not the best part though. Its QUIET and holds/shoots very well in my hands. If you are used to that kinda draw you should have no trouble with it. My groups are just as good with it as my XF6.

Derek