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What Happened?
Well guys ,I lost a nice buckthis last weekend. This is the first deer I've ever lost and it really bothers me. I've spent the last couple of days and nights trying to figure out what happened to prevent it from happening again. Here's the story.
Deer comes out about 35yds from my stand. I'm about 15 feet up. I range him and he's now about 30yds walking toward me. At about 25-28yds he turns left giving me a almost completly broadside shot in a narrow shooting lane so I take the shot. Now I can keep most arrows in a 4" circle at 40yds so please don't flame me. Arrow hits low, about what I would say was heart level but a little further back. Penetration was only about 6" judging from the recovered broken arrow (broadhead end not recovered). I was shooting a trophy ridge undertaker with an arrow weight of 342gr out of my Guardian@ 61lbs. Earlier in the season I shot another buck at 20yds or so and had complete pass through with the arrow stuck in the ground about 6 inches. Iwatch him run off with the arrow sticking out so I know from the stand, no pass through. I decide to quietly come down and return later to track. I pickup the blood trail which is a decent amount of bright red blood after a hour and half wait. I track him to were I saw him last and see where he had laid down but I guess I bumped him even after the 1 1/2 hour wait. At this point I really bummed so I back out and return the next morning just before daylight as the temps are forcast to rise into the mid 60's. Pick up the trail and track it for an additional couple of hundred yards while the blood gets less and less until I find just one drop. At this point I start a grid search for the next 4-5 hours. Can't find him. Now I'm really bummed, so I go home, get the toy poodle and try to track the deer again. Hey, I deperate at this point. She helped but when the blood ran out, she was lost as well. At this point I get on my blackberry and find a blood tracker. He's willing to come help but get this, on Louisiana WMAs, there not allowed. At dark on the day after the shot, I finally gave up the search. On the way out I ran into a game warden. (Had tried to get in touch with one all afternoonto get permission to use tracker but couldn't locate one and state communications wouldn't give out their phone number).He's says he and most others would just turn their heads if dog was on leash and no weapons were with you. Never did find the deer, can't figure out why penetration was so poor. Oh, arrow had no fat or gut evidence on the recovered portion. Is it possible to slip and arrow between the heart and gut and the deer go this far? As low as the shot was I wouldn't think I hit liver. Maybe just nicked a lung? Broadhead maybe didn't open? What do ya'll think? I ordered some Slick Tricksyesterday from Dan just in case that was the problem. What do ya'll think? Sorry for the long post. |
RE: What Happened?
I think you should read this a couple of times:
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2987754 Then make sure you did everything listed in that post. If you haven't go back and see if you can't get back on the buck. As far as the shot, if it was low and a little back you may have just passed through the brisket creatinga superficial wound that will not be fatal. If you caught lung that deer could go a long way before expiring, liver too. Good luck. |
RE: What Happened?
You mention a "narrow shooting lane" that you shot through. Is it at all possible you may have nipped a small branch that you didn't notice? This could explain you not getting a pass through considering where you describe him being hit. The area you think you hit (how you described it) should have resulted in some kind of a pass through I would think.
I can't imagine anything in that part of a deer's body (low and back from the heart)that would have stopped an arrow from passing through. |
RE: What Happened?
I say narrow but it was probably 4 foot wide. Arrow appeared to fly true. That's what's so strange. Only thing I can think of is I hit a rib very squarely or maybe the head didn't open.And I've read the thread on deer recovery several times prior to this and studied the diagrams.
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RE: What Happened?
Oh, I didn't realize that the head you were using was a mechanical.[:@]
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RE: What Happened?
From your description it sounds like a one-lung shotto me. Bumping a one-lunged deer significantly reduces the chances of recovery as once they have layed up for a bit they often begin to clot up and the blood trail diminishes just as you described.
A bow shot deer often has no idea what just hurt him and isn't all that alarmed and simply beds up, but once you bump him by tracking too early he quickly realizes it was a predator that caused him harm and will run as far as his stamina will take him to escape you. The chance of recovery now is dependent on the amount of blood loss before he was bumped. You need to expand your grid much, muchfarther on a one-lung deer. |
RE: What Happened?
Oh, I didn't realize that the head you were using was a mechanical.[:@] |
RE: What Happened?
ORIGINAL: y2khog Well guys ,I lost a nice buckthis last weekend. This is the first deer I've ever lost and it really bothers me. I've spent the last couple of days and nights trying to figure out what happened to prevent it from happening again. Here's the story. Deer comes out about 35yds from my stand. I'm about 15 feet up. I range him and he's now about 30yds walking toward me. At about 25-28yds he turns left giving me a almost completly broadside shot in a narrow shooting lane so I take the shot. Now I can keep most arrows in a 4" circle at 40yds so please don't flame me. Arrow hits low, about what I would say was heart level but a little further back. Penetration was only about 6" judging from the recovered broken arrow (broadhead end not recovered). I was shooting a trophy ridge undertaker with an arrow weight of 342gr out of my Guardian@ 61lbs. Earlier in the season I shot another buck at 20yds or so and had complete pass through with the arrow stuck in the ground about 6 inches. Iwatch him run off with the arrow sticking out so I know from the stand, no pass through. I decide to quietly come down and return later to track. I pickup the blood trail which is a decent amount of bright red blood after a hour and half wait. I track him to were I saw him last and see where he had laid down but I guess I bumped him even after the 1 1/2 hour wait. At this point I really bummed so I back out and return the next morning just before daylight as the temps are forcast to rise into the mid 60's. Pick up the trail and track it for an additional couple of hundred yards while the blood gets less and less until I find just one drop. At this point I start a grid search for the next 4-5 hours. Can't find him. Now I'm really bummed, so I go home, get the toy poodle and try to track the deer again. Hey, I deperate at this point. She helped but when the blood ran out, she was lost as well. At this point I get on my blackberry and find a blood tracker. He's willing to come help but get this, on Louisiana WMAs, there not allowed. At dark on the day after the shot, I finally gave up the search. On the way out I ran into a game warden. (Had tried to get in touch with one all afternoonto get permission to use tracker but couldn't locate one and state communications wouldn't give out their phone number).He's says he and most others would just turn their heads if dog was on leash and no weapons were with you. Never did find the deer, can't figure out why penetration was so poor. Oh, arrow had no fat or gut evidence on the recovered portion. Is it possible to slip and arrow between the heart and gut and the deer go this far? As low as the shot was I wouldn't think I hit liver. Maybe just nicked a lung? Broadhead maybe didn't open? What do ya'll think? I ordered some Slick Tricksyesterday from Dan just in case that was the problem. What do ya'll think? Sorry for the long post. And as much as I hate to do it, :D I agree with Jeff, that shot shouldn't have been affected by using a mechanical, and a mechanical would more than likely pass straight through with ease vs. not if it didn't open!!! |
RE: What Happened?
[quote]ORIGINAL: GMMAT
Oh, I didn't realize that the head you were using was a mechanical.[:@] [/quote Just disregard this. If your shot was where you stated a COT head would have almost certainly passed thru. Probably with a different outcome. |
RE: What Happened?
Chris I'm not trying to be a smartass. What I'm saying is....it's gonna get to be a REALLY tiresome mantra if EVERY time someone loses a deer......the COC fixed crowd (which I'm getting ready to be a part of) blames it on the mechanical BH.
I just didn't feel like it was the time or the place for that kind of statement....and on a broadside hit, behind the shoulder......hell it should make NO difference what tye head you have. Just wasn't the time nor the place for that. |
RE: What Happened?
Well, I'll be back out there Friday hoping to see him again. As for how low is low, I would say about heart level but a little further back but not so far as I would think a gut shot. Brisket/sternum probably the answer.
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RE: What Happened?
ORIGINAL: GMMAT Chris I'm not trying to be a smartass. What I'm saying is....it's gonna get to be a REALLY tiresome mantra if EVERY time someone loses a deer......the COC fixed crowd (which I'm getting ready to be a part of) blames it on the mechanical BH. I just didn't feel like it was the time or the place for that kind of statement....and on a broadside hit, behind the shoulder......hell it should make NO difference what tye head you have. Just wasn't the time nor the place for that. |
RE: What Happened?
Fair enough, Chris....but only 6" penetration .....leaves a LOT of questions to be asked. Just not the time/place.
Have a good one, buddy. I'm going to a tree. |
RE: What Happened?
ORIGINAL: GMMAT Fair enough, Chris....but only 6" penetration .....leaves a LOT of questions to be asked. Just not the time/place. Have a good one, buddy. I'm going to a tree. |
RE: What Happened?
Didn't the author of this thread question if maybe the broad head didn't open? Maybe partially opened?
Would that maybe make this a viable question or should I start another thread? I don't want to break a forum rule, just asking as I'm trying to learn here. |
RE: What Happened?
Russ,
If I were a betting man, that's where I'd put my money. Again, it may or may not be fatal, but I'm guessing with that angle, you've probably just got a flesh wound, which should mean you'll see him again, ALIVE. But going back to the sticky'd thread, if you WERE unsure of the shot, a 4-6hr wait might have been a better option. Now I'm a Mechanical BH fan with the right set-up, but in all honesty, if I was shooting your set-up, I'd lean towards a fixed head, mainly because of the LIGHT arrow. Put a 400gr arrow on there, and then you may be talking. Also, you may get more momentum by keeping a little of the length on that shaft as well. Archery is the only sport I know of guys want short shafts!!! :D |
RE: What Happened?
There really are no bones back that far that should stop an arrow,unless the far leg was back as in the deer taking a step and you hit the off side leg. With your shot distance and height I can't imagine that the deer is not dead ,you might just need to search a larger circle. I would look in the thickest nasty stuff in the area.
Good luck,Jim |
RE: What Happened?
Well, after this, I'm going to use the slick trick mags. Not sure if this is considered a COC or not. Back years ago, I used a chisel point one piece broadhead but it had to be hand sharpened which was kind of a pain. I thinkthey weighted around 180grs.
I did search all the thick cover in the area as that was my thoughts as well. Really not a lot of it in the area. Mostly small areas scattered like little islands if that makes sense. |
RE: What Happened?
I'm guessing brisket or partial brisket. Get some blood but not a lot and it'll stop real quick. Possible you clipped a lung but I really doubt it. And as far as mechanical vs. a fixed, we all know the mechanicals do loose some punch. He had a light arrow, moderate poundage, smack some bone and you don't get what you want. Although in this case, it sounds like it was too low to do the deed with any head.
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RE: What Happened?
How do you guys explain the broken arrow if you're (like Jim) trying to atribute this to the BH. How did the arrow break?
Also....would the arrow break if (like David) you're assuming a glancing blow? |
RE: What Happened?
I would guess the fore leg coming back as the deer ran broke the arrow, thats what breaks mine when I shoot them behind the front leg.:eek:
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RE: What Happened?
ORIGINAL: GMMAT Chris I'm not trying to be a smartass. What I'm saying is....it's gonna get to be a REALLY tiresome mantra if EVERY time someone loses a deer......the COC fixed crowd (which I'm getting ready to be a part of) blames it on the mechanical BH. I just didn't feel like it was the time or the place for that kind of statement....and on a broadside hit, behind the shoulder......hell it should make NO difference what tye head you have. Just wasn't the time nor the place for that. |
RE: What Happened?
But that means the arrow was in the deer, right? If the BH didn't open....wouldn't it blow right through?
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RE: What Happened?
What happens when only one blade opens?
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RE: What Happened?
A meager effort GMMAT.:D:D
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RE: What Happened?
If I get my ass in a sling, EI....it's for not being afraid to say what others are thinking.
You know....like don't kick a guy when he's down (Not the time for a BH war).....AND....do we really need to blame the BH on every bad hit. Sometimes it IS the culprit. It's not EVERY time. The inference is juvenile (if you really wanna knowhow I feel);) |
RE: What Happened?
ORIGINAL: bawanajim What happens when only one blade opens? |
RE: What Happened?
EI....."meager effort"? How so? I'd say the definition of a "meager effort".....is hunting one spot 32 out of 32 times in one season and wondering why you're having a bad year.
THAT'S a "meager effort".;) |
RE: What Happened?
ORIGINAL: early in ORIGINAL: bawanajim What happens when only one blade opens? I'm ony asking because these things interest me. Could the opening of one blade put enough forceon the side of the arrow to cause poor penatration? Is there a better or more proper time toquestion equipment failure in a thread where "What happened" is the title?:eek: |
RE: What Happened?
Was there blood on both sides of the trail? 2 holes? Who's to say he didn't shoot completely under the belly/heart and hit the leg on the other side? That would explain why the BH end of the arrow Is still In him why It broke off where It did. It would also look like about 8" to 10" of penetration from the tree when It was running away. It wouldn't surprise me one bit If that's where this deer Is hit.
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RE: What Happened?
Did anyone ask the bow he was shooting? KE produced? Tuned properly?
Nahh. That would be too logical. Let's gostraight to the thing that sends tingle ripples through our sacks every time we get to make disparaging remarks about it.......lol. |
RE: What Happened?
ORIGINAL: GMMAT Did anyone ask the bow he was shooting? KE produced? Tuned properly? Nahh. That would be too logical. Let's gostraight to the thing that sends tingle ripples through our sacks every time we get to make disparaging remarks about it.......lol. I was shooting a trophy ridge undertaker with an arrow weight of 342gr out of my Guardian@ 61lbs. |
RE: What Happened?
Maybe you read a different post? He stated that he was shooting....:eek: I was shooting a trophy ridge undertaker with an arrow weight of 342gr out of my Guardian@ 61lbs. I don't really care, honestly. I'll let you hyenas get back to your mechanical carcass.;) |
RE: What Happened?
ORIGINAL: bawanajim ORIGINAL: GMMAT Did anyone ask the bow he was shooting? KE produced? Tuned properly? Nahh. That would be too logical. Let's gostraight to the thing that sends tingle ripples through our sacks every time we get to make disparaging remarks about it.......lol. I was shooting a trophy ridge undertaker with an arrow weight of 342gr out of my Guardian@ 61lbs. |
RE: What Happened?
You guys are still missing an ingredient to find the KE (nevermind the possibility of atuning issue)I asked about.
It's no fun if you guys can'tfigure out for yourselves when you're wrong. Carry on.;) |
RE: What Happened?
Jeff, that's another meager attempt to put spin on just another of your foot in the mouth statements. Good try I guess.:D:D
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RE: What Happened?
ORIGINAL: GMMAT Maybe you read a different post? He stated that he was shooting....:eek: I was shooting a trophy ridge undertaker with an arrow weight of 342gr out of my Guardian@ 61lbs. I don't really care, honestly. I'll let you hyenas get back to your mechanical carcass.;) When I ask about them I'm doing something wrong?[:-] For some one whom says he doesn't care you seemlike maybe you do just a little.;) Yea its F.P.S.[:o] |
RE: What Happened?
'07 Vectrix XL 50-60# / maxed at 63# 30" HHA OL-5000 single pin Wisker Biscuit KWIKEE KWIVER / XX75-2314 arrows S-Coil stabilizer / Loop & Kisser / Fletcher Peep TRU FIRE / Hurricane Release Muzzy 3 blade 100gr Here's all of your gear listed......What's your KE? Can it be figured from what's present? Do you even know? No lifeline, here. Do you even know??? |
RE: What Happened?
Jim....the difference is...I'm not coming into a thread where a guy lost a deer and telling him the reason he lost is due to his BH choice when I discuss BH's. You seem to never miss a chance to try to make someone feel bad or look foolish.
There's a BIG difference. |
RE: What Happened?
ORIGINAL: GMMAT Jim....the difference is...I'm not coming into a thread where a guy lost a deer and telling him the reason he lost is due to his BH choice when I discuss BH's. You seem to never miss a chance to try to make someone feel bad or look foolish. There's a BIG difference. The man gave us details we used them to try to help figure out "What Happened" You started attackingwith your first post and will continued to your last.[:@] |
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