The Great Debate Over Baiting Revisited
 

I posted this in the general deer hunting forum, but I want to know what my fellow bow hunters think.

I know that this topic has been talked about to death, but I have thought of a new spin to put on the arguement. Now first off, i will admitt that I am playing the devil's advocate here. It is not my intention to upset anyone, but rather to hear what people think about the idea.

To start let me tell you a little about my hunting practices. Up untill this year I did the vast majority of my deer hunting on public land. The hunter to land ratio is severely one sided where i hunt (northern Michigan...which has one of the highest number of hunters for any state). During my time of hunting (almost exclusively) on state land I used bait. I would put out corn, carrots, apples, sugar beats, or whatever I had handy that i felt would appeal to a deer's appitite. This year the Michigan DNR banned baiting in the lower penninsula due to a case of CWD found in the lower portion of the state. To say the least I wasa little upset. The area I hunt is roughly a square mile. Some may say that is alot of room, but I know of two dozen people that hunt that land from the beginning of bow season to the end. Then you have to consider the dozen or so more that "invade" come rifle season. It becomes very tight quarters. Most arguements that I hear revolve around the notion that I should set up on funnels between bedding areas and feeding areas or in the bedding areas etc. The problem with that is there are no true feeding areas where I hunt. There are no fields of mass areas of oak trees. It's almost impossible to hunt the bedding area considering over 3/4 of the land is a bedding area.I owuld be trying to shoot a fish in the ocean rather than the barrell. In addition, the bedding areas are so thick that no one could get a clean shot without cutting shooting lanes (which is illegal in michigan on state land). I hope you are starting to see my handicap. Baiting was a way for me to bring deer into my area in the hopes of getting a clean, ethical shot. In addition, I know that no one else hunts within 100 or so yards around my stand. By bringing the deer to me I am not bothering another person's hunt.

With that being said, this is where I decided to put a twist on the age old debate. Many people that I have come across are "anti-baiting". But when you think about it, most people "bait" when they hunt and don't realise it.

Let me start with the most common. Hunting over food plots or crops. I put food on the ground and the deer come to me. Hunting over a crop, the food is already on the ground and the deer come to it. Put a stand over a corn field or putting a stand over a corn pile had the same effect on deer. They are comming to eat and you are going to shoot them while they are eating. Now I have had that statement countered by being told that "You put the corn on the ground...it's not natural." Come on, the crop that you're hunting over isn't natural either...neither is the flood plot you planted. Unless you are hunting over a wild apple tree (and I am pretty sure a man named johnny planted it years ago) you are hunting over something that is not natural.

To go along with the above, hunt over the trails that are leading from bedding to feeding. Once again you are using a food item to shoot a deer. This time however you are not sitting infront of it...just a little ways off.

If you're still reading by this point I thank you for putting up with me. Here comes the interesting part. How many hunters use calls, or scents, decoys? I can't think of one hunter that doesn't use something along those lines. The point of all those devices is to appeal to one of a deer's senses or urges. All the items listed are used to entice a buck to come within range during the rut. Now think about this. I put corn on the ground to appeal to the need of a deer (hunger). I am using something to bring the deer to me...aka baiting. Using scents, calls, decoys, etc is appealing to a deer's need to breed or defend territoy. By using one of those items, i am using something to bring the deer to me...aka "baiting".

It doesn't matter what a hunter does, we are "baiting" a deer one way or another. The difference is how we go about it.

As I mentioned above this post was not intended to anger anyone or start world war three. I was sitting in the tree stand and this notion came to me. I decided to share my thoughts. For those that made it to the end I thank you and I hope I am not seen as someone who has been hunting in the sun too long. Now it's inevitable that someone has read this and can't wait to reply and tell me how much of a loony toons I am. I would like to conclude by saying that this hunting season I did not bait while hunting. I shot two deer this year despite the DNR's ban on baiting. One deer I shot in a food plot, and the other was in an acorn thicket. I did not bait them in...I merely "baited" them in. Thanks again for reading. Good luck for the remainder of the season. Oh, and if you are so inclined please comment. I would like to know what thoughts went through your mind while reading this. Again good luck and happy huntin.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting Revisited
 

Let me help you out

The problem with that is there are no true feeding areas where I hunt. There are no fields of mass areas of oak trees.= Bad deer habitat.

Here is a good video http://gf.nd.gov/multimedia/pubs/baiting-video.html
Your other argument is from Ted Nugent, and I ignore everything comes out of his mouth;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxMk9gHsXjg

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting Revisited
 

i my buck this year over some bait but he wasnt eating he was just passing thru
and so was my arrow:D

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting Revisited
 

Why's it always new members that start debates?

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting Revisited
 

If you are happy with the way you take game animals, in whichever form it may be, then why the need to justify it?

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting Revisited
 

Bruce coming from MI and hunting the NLP a lot the past 25 year, I think I know what the issues is with the baiting ban for some.
Pland and simple, and not to be mean, it's the only way they know/knew how to hunt.

I have baited with my family in NLP a long time. If you take the bait away NLP becomes extremly tough to hunt. There are no woodlots, funnels, etc. Just big woods and ridges, it's a different way to hunt.

Without the ability to drop some bait 150 yds of the road and draw deer to them, a lot of hunters in MI are screwed. It is what it is.

Baiting in MI is banned for the rest of my life:D

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RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting Revisited
 

I am good with all of that. Hell, I am good with baiting if it is legal and what you want to do. What bugs me is the need to justify it by saying hunting an oak stand is the same as baiting. It is not even close but that always comes up in the "baiting arguments".

I am good with any type of legal hunting but what bugs me are the attempts to justify it to other people. Why? If you(anyone) like the way you hunt whether it is over bait, in a High Fence, with a traditional bow, a compound bow, so on and so on, then why the need to justify to a bunch of made up names on the internet? You don't need their approval so why all the arguments trying to justify the way(anyone) you hunt?

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RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting Revisited
 

Because most new members have questions that they want asked and aren't aware of how much the topic has been discussed. Why is it that some life members never make any contribution other than "good buck, great job, good luck";) Just kiddin chief:D


To me it is each his own and if it's legal than there is no way for us to say it can't/shouldn't be done. To me, I find it unethical to truly bait (throwing out corn or something like that) as I think it is taking away from the hunt and creating false opportunities. Of course, the same could be said about using attract scents and things like that, however, it just seems to me that throwing out food is on a completely different level. After all, a doe could very well come through the area where you're sitting with a doe in estrous scent, but you're never going to find a big pile of corn just suddenly appearing out in the woods

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting Revisited
 

Hey rory, sorry not a new member. switched my handle a while ago. i have actually been here for about three years.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting Revisited
 

as long as it is legal i say go for it. i baited in KY but i also had corn out 365 days a year

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting Revisited
 

after reading a little bit more i feel that i must make a few comments. I am not trying to justify anything or change anyones views. yes i use to bait, but i also hunt over funnels, food plots, trails, rub lines. it does not matter to me how you choose to do it or if you agree with it or not. That was the point of this post, to express an idea and see what others think.

Someone mentioned that i shared the same view and ted nugent. didn't mean to copy the man. I didn't know that he had a similar arguement.

One of the first replies mentioned that my area is a bad deer area. I agree. Unfortunately i didn't have anywhere else to hunt up untill recently. I made the most of what I had. Baiting helped me do that.

again i just want to say that I am not trying to change anyones views just threw an idea out there.

and drope tine...just a comment. the credit is due to the hunter who does it through old school methods...i see where you are going with this. But I am not comparing you to any old joe shmoe. YOu put your time in and scout and I don't hold anything against you for doing that. But you have to remember that not everyone has that time available, nor the area in which to do it. And as far as old school methods...hope you still hunt with a long bow. it's an old school method, or did you become accepting of a different method and use a compound? Not trying to goat you, just another thought.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting Revisited
 

I've got no problem with baiting deer if that's what you want to do. Personally, everytime that I've used bait (corn) it's done nothing but turn the deer nocturnal and I've ended up with the deer coming in after shooting hours has ended. I prefer not to use anything.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting Revisited
 

Anybody who knows me knows that i dislike the idea of baiting. I am fine with any critisizm that you want to give me out of this post...ill accept it because its what i believe. I have no problem with people who do, because in Ohio it is perfectly legal.

I had a bait site on my property for 2 years. I never hunted over it, just used it to get pictures. I found that it made my deer harder to pattern, because i would not hunt over it...so i got rid of it.

One of my best friends is a "crossbows and cornpiles" guy. He kills a pope and young every year...i always give him a hard time of course.

There was also this kid in school who did the same thing. He killed a pope and young buck every year as well, and averaged ony 3 sits. One of the bucks was a 13 point in the 160's. His property butts up to mine....so you can get the idea about how i feel about him...

For "me", i would rather not shoot a buck using my methods then harvest a buck feeding on a pile of corn.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting Revisited
 

Hard to improve on that replyIMHO.[/align][/align]A side note thatsmall tracts of land on public ground is quite the norm for most bowhunters.

Time dedicated to scouting was introducedas afactor. Serious hunters make the most of their time.More accurately stated, for the lack of it. Scouting never stops, even if only by map. Learning an area,working a full time job,setting aside hunting for family is all in what a true bowhunter will do.

Making the most out of what time is available. Implementing plans of actiontailored to what was gleaned from time spent on stand dedicatedthe previous year is often what we must do.

Burning vacation days to scout on foot, be it pre season or post,while maintaining time tohunt, onlyto have some less than committed "hunter"eliminatemonths ofyour hard invested labor on public ground is also an unfortunate reality.

A huntercontrols human scent... expendsenergyto locate pinch points, knows predominant wind direction, seeks information regarding historical deer movements in a givenarea, finds natural funnels, (yes, they ARE in your woods), understandstransitional areas and plans his or her entrance / exits routes carefully.

All this can be lost inseconds...compliments of the "hunter" who wears the same clothing to fuel hisvehicle the evening before... or the "hunter" thatwelcomed his presence by strolling through the bedding area of that bruiser you kept book on for monthsprior. Yeah, those who really hunt... at some point, will all have been there. [/align][/align] [/align][/align]It is not uncommon for a bowhunter in my state to hunt a specific deer. We don't use calls that imitate the sounds of feeders spinning in the distance. Although, much to my dismay, find that they are commercially available. Conditioning deer to respond to a givenlocation by the sound of a mechanical device that they know dispenses a food source is not hunting. [/align][/align] [/align][/align]Understanding the vocalizations of deer and using calls, (non-electronic are permitted here for both whitetail and turkey), and using them in the situation at hand to effectively harvest a game animal is not baiting by the definition implied. Being able to ethically harvest either species with a stick and string when employing a call is hunting, not ventilating a clam, feeding, conditioned animal overa pile of bait from a 20 yard, pre-determinedvantage point. That is not true hunting. Be prepared to take your shot in an unknown window, more often than not at a location not anticipated, at an animal that you may only have seconds to judge, while moving through your area. Stop the intended recipiant of your arrow within that window and ethically dispatch your intended target. Not a problem, right? Right.[/align][/align] [/align][/align]I am proud to say that more than one observation by a PH, publishedthe state of Pennsylvania as one of the hardest places to take mature whitetails with archery gear. The same has been said foradult Toms... in that IF you can harvest one here, you have the ability tocollect one anywhere else in the US of A. Couple in the fact that our deer population has dropped sharply with years ofover issuedantlerless tags and you'll have yet another hurdle to overcome.Locating an area that holdsmature deer.[/align][/align] [/align][/align]I add a condition to that previoulsy publication -the word "consistently" harvest either game animal here. You'll have earned it and rightfully deserve all the respect that accompanies it. My signature condenses this post, for those who prefer the Reader Digest version. :)[/align]

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting Revisited
 

To each his own.

If it is legal in your state and you choose to do so, far be it for me to tell you you're wrong.

I'll congratulate you just the same as I would anyone else.