Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

I'm starting to worry a bit. These heads are devastating.....but I'm thinking back and trying to remember how many complete "stick in the ground" pass-thru's I've had with them......and the number isn't very high. In reality.....it's 1-2 out of 10-11.

Are they burning up THAT much energy after they enter?

Before I get carried away....I'd like to hear what your experience with pass-thru's has been if you use either of these heads.

Thanks.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

I've been saying this is an issue w/ rages from the very start. very devastating wounds, that's for sure. but you DO NOT get pass thru's like you do w/ heads like muzzy.

shot 4 deer with only 1 pass thru.

before that i shot 11 deer and all but 2 (that I can remember) were pass thru.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

Here's a doe that my brother shot earlier this year with the 2 blade Rage. He shot it at about 10 yards, with an '08 101st. His draw weight is set in between 60-63#. I don't remember the exact number. He didn't get a pass thru, but the arrow was sticking out about 5 inches in the opposite armpit.
In the end it's a dead deer, that only went about 60 yards in a circle before dying.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

Jeff, I have taken 3 deer with mine and had one pass thru, granted I shot 2 in the spine so can't really say on those. The question is.....are they dead ?? Yes. How many kills do you have with those heads compared to how many you don't??

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

I will throw my two-cents into the arguement, but my sample size is small - I shot a doe with a rage 3 blade a couple of weeks ago - it entered near the back rib and exited right behind the other shoulder. It blew a HUGE hole in her and was laying several feet on the other side. On top of that I could never get a muzzy to fly as true to my field points as I can the rage.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

Out of the 3 deer this year...one of my shots was not a pass through. All my other shots have passed. The snypers have a smaller cutting diameter and I don't use them very well.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

I shoot Rocky Mt. Gator XP's. 2" expandable that opens very similar to a Rage 2 blade. I've shot 2 deer with them. 1 passthrough and 1 that ended up passing through about 30 yards down the trail. Shot wasn't ideal on this deer but I still found it.

It seems like if you place them where your supposed to you'll find them 5" into the ground. That's just my limited experience though.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

I have two 2-bladed rages in my quiver along with three 3-bladed Muzzy's. I've been nocking the Rage, but after reading this thread I'm starting to second guess this. Is this a severe issue that a lot of people are having? I'm curious what some others are experiencing too (Matt/PA, Rick James etc) that also use these heads.

I have always had amazing pass throughs with Muzzy's, but I guess with the expandable Rage... there can be complete pass through issues. I'm not willing to put them down before letting at least one fly (they fly amazing out of my Guardian)... but this thread has def sparked my interest.:)

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

Out of four deer, three were pass through

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

I have shot 9 with the Rage 2.3 have not been pass thru's. All were easy recoveries.

The measure of performance should be % easy recovery vice % pass thru. They're similar and related but the real item of interest is finding your deer with minimal time and disturbance. Pass thru's are desirable only because we related them to easy recoveries.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

I have harvested 6 deer with a Rocky Mountain Snyper head, either the 2 blade original or the newer 3 blade. All but one have been a pass through. The buck in my profile pic was the non pass through shot. I shot him a bit too far ahead and it actually hit the big, flat bone in his shoulder. It smashed completely through it and the arrow was sticking out the other side of him by about 3 inches when I found him. That was with the 3 blade model.

I personally do not like and won't use another head that does not have the chisel tip. I believe the razor tips on the original as well at the rage are too flimsy, especially on a shot like I made. I'd sooner have that little bit of insurance that a chisel will give me in case I make a less than great shot.

Of course, I believe I may go back to a fixed head next year, probably either the newer Muzzy or a Slick. I want t simplify my setup more.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

out of 3 deer, Ive had 1 pass through, and that was because I "sliced" her.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

If it isnt a "pass-thru" issue and people should be more worried about recovery, is the recovery rate for Rage higher than other b-heads? I cant speak because I dont shoot Rage but I am doubtful that people have found any more hit deer with rage than they did with fixed blades. If the recovery rate is the same than I would rather have a complete pass thru. I think part of the appeal with rage is people love are entertained by the enormous entrance wounds, not that they are a more practical broadhead. I know my local bow shop always steers people away from any mechanical unless they are using an incredibly fast set-up.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

I can show you photos of my entrance and "exit" wounds from the 4 does I've taken, this year.....and I'll let you decide if the shot placement was good or not. I AM getting an exit wound. I've got it on every one of them. I'm just not getting a complete pass-thru. I have killed probably 11 deer now with the rage....and I'm just NOT getting pass-thrus. I never found one of my arrows, this year. Two were snapped off.....and one was found 20' from the POI. All deer had entrance and exit wounds.....but not once has it stuck the arrow in the ground going through. I'm shooting almost 71FP/KE.

If I remember Rob's post correctly....he didn't get a pass-thru on his buck the other day. He's shooting some SICK KE! I mean WAY up there.

I'm just concerned.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

I've shot 4 deer with Snypers and got 2 pass throughs. First was a doe broadside, complete pass through. Second, a buck broadside, complete pass through. Third was a doe broadside, spine shot. Fourth was a doe quartering away hard, arrow went in behind the diaphragm, through the boiler room, hit the socket on the far leg and poked out the front in front of the far leg.

I've shot 2 deer with Rages and got 1 pass through. First was a doe broadside, complete pass through. Second was a hard quartering away shot, arrow went in between last and second to last ribs, through the vitals, and out in front of the far shoulder, but the arrow stayed in the deer.

Hope this helps.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

:D

Less than a month ago anyone that wasnt shouting the virtues of a Rage from the rooftopswas called a peanut gallery hater.:eek::eek: YES, YES, YES, they ARE burning up THAT MUCH ENERGY. It is the law of physics at work. Is it easier to push the tip of a fillet knife througha steak or push the entire blade lengthwise through and cut it in half??? Not to mention the energy wasted on moving parts. They will underperform a fixed blade head on many hits.They have their place,........... in a turkey blind. I killed a 240# buck last Tuesday with a fixed blade head. After hitting the back of his shoulder blade and cutting through 2 ribs I stillhad to pull the arrow out of the ground.Remember, I only pull 28" @ 68#. I can not improve on that, nor would I want to try.Large mechanical are the head of choice for turkeys for the very reason they are NOT the best choice for big game.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

My very first post almost a year ago was on this exact topic. Last year, I shot three deer with them, all recovered but none were complete pass thrus.

I verified that my bow was in tune, but because of a shorter draw length (27.50") and an older bow I am only generating about 61# KE and that is with my bow limbs cranked all the way down.

I am not convinced that 61# KE is enough even though they require very little KE to open, that is still a lot of broadhead width that is hitting bone and having to twist and turn through the body cavity robbing the arrow of KE much quicker as compared to a smaller diameter broadhead.

2 of the three had normal blood trails (no better or worse) as compared to my old stand by, a Muzzy 125gr 3 blade, but the third deer was a marginal liver, 1 lung shot that I had to trail for over 250 yards and even though I did not have a complete pass thru, I still had a good blood trail and I feel confident that the blood trail was much more plentiful and easier to follow than had I used a Muzzy.

So in the last case, at least IMO, it was a good trade off.

I have not used one yet this year, but I plan on killing my next deer with one as I am intrigued with some of the results I read/hear about, but at the same time a complete pass thru is important to me, so I am still on the fence.

I am using a 25gr weighted insert with them this year (this was suggested by some HNI members back in the summer) as I prefer to shoot 125gr vs 100gr and am anxious to see if I think it improves the performance out ofmy bow with them as compared to last year.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

I've had TWO complete passthrus on the last 9 kills with the Snyper and that was this past video doe and last years doe with RJ.

I really could care less though as each except this last buck had devistating exit holes.

I firmly believe it's the broadhead but will not be changing anytime soon. I love the wide cutting holes.

Consider as well, I've been shooting over 78 ft lbs and up to 82 ft lbs on all shots.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

The only Rage I ever used was on a coyote, and didn't geta pass through either. Head was completely destroyed. There is absolutely no argue-able (if that's a word) point that can refute the fact that 2" of diameter is eating up a lot of KE, and any obstacle encountered on the way through the cavity will of course soak up more. Are you looking for a COMPLETE passthrough in order to facilitate more blood trail, in that the arrow is not plugging up the hole at all? If there is an exit wound, I think that is more than half the battle, at least there is a hole poked lower down on the deer for the blood to leak out.

As far as KE, 71 is nothing to sneeze at. I'm shooting 90.13# according to the Gold Tip calculator. My Commander is getting 268 fps with a 565 gr. arrow. I buried a Grim Reaper nearly 5" into a hackberry tree this weekend on a miss. I still don't know what it is going to do to a deer, since I need to HIT one to find out.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

[/quote]

I'm just concerned.
[/quote]

If this is your biggest concern then I think you're good-to-go. Their advantagesin creating easy blood trails are clear and well-documented. The only reason we want pass thru's is to produce easier recoveries. When I lose, a deer with the Rage, I might re-consider but it hasn't even come close to happening yet.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

I have shot 2 deer with the rage. They were both complete pass thru's. Both deer only went 50 yards. I have heard nothing but good things about recoverys after a deer is hit with the rage. Thats whyI got them. I dont think i will change for a while. Have you seen some of the entry wounds and exit wounds even if its not a complete pass thru the deer wont go far. You have such a big hole in the deer thats they lose alot of blood.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

I agree, fletch.

I subscribe to the therory of "what if". What if I make a less than desirable shot? I want to have every bit of advantage I can. I've had my fixed heads do some devastating things on not so desirable shots....where I am fairly certain a mech would not have done nearly as well. Personally, I feel "don't fix it if it ain't broke". Muzzy, Magnus, Slick Trick, etc....all kill a deer just as dead as a Rage....but imo give you more margin for error should something go awry, and Lord knows that can happen. There have been quite a few posts about the Rage not passing through this year. Doesn't mean its not a good head, it just shows you that the KE used is ALOT.

That deer you just got Jeff is perfect example. That was a PERFECT shot....should have been 6" in the dirt imo. Yep, still dead and didn't go far which is the result you are after...but I bet a Muzzy or Magnus would have blown through her like a hot knife through butter.
(great shot btw - congrats!)

I will say though...the rage's do make some wicked cuts and imagine some of the blood trails are just as awesome. If I was a mech guy....I'd probably try them.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

I have thought for awhile that a small diameter fixed blade like rocky mtn. ironhead, nitron, phat head, montec, or slick trick is just as accurate as a mechanical and provides way more durability and penetration than the rage. Not knocking rage lovers, i just think people get a kick out of the entrance wounds and choose a broadhead that is far less practical. How big a hole does a 30-06 make? Anyone ever have trailing problems with one of those?

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

WV.....Your post's timing coudn't be better. Your thoughts are exactly what's running through my head after my weekend's ordeal with the buck I hit. I keep thinking "what if".

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

I agree but after using Muzzy's for more than 10 years myself, I'm seeing just as good if not better results with the Snypers minus the pass thrus.

You could subscribe to the what if's on marginal shots with the Rages or Snypers doing more damage as well. It's all relevant.

An exit is an exit, who cares how deep in the dirt it goes.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

I want the arrow out of the deer to allow bleeding. My preference from experience.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

I shot one deer with a rage 2 blade and got a pass thru. Quartering away shot, entered just behind the last rib on the left side and exited behind the right shoulder.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

You just set off your OWN radar. BLEEP, BLEEP, BLEEP, BLEEP,.....:D:D

Seriously, pass-throughs are number one criteria to me. Just my preference.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

For 90% I agree. I've gotten those.

Did you get on on your buck this past Friday (an exit hole)?

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

With a small hole, I would agree with that. None of my 9 deer shot with a Snyper went 100 yards including the gut shot one because I left him lay. On a gut shot animal (bad hit, margin of error) I'll take the huge devastating holes of the Snyper or Rage over the Muzzy holes I used to have.

Now don't get me wrong, I also carry G5, Muzzy and Slick Tricks but the first arrow out of the quiver has a Snyper on it.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

No, you know that though and I highly doubt any other head would have as well. It was lodged in his brisket after going through and breaking the 2nd and 3rd rib in.

Let me add that prior to trying the Snypers I was very anti mechanical head. Some may remember my very adamant posts against them and I'm still not fan of some.

I tried Snypers on 5 Shots recommendation as he rated them every bit as high as Muzzy in every aspect through his testings on durability, penetration and more on cutting diameter. I'll take his recommendations over mosts.

Now, The Rage although bigger may eat up even more KE. I'll continue to use the Snypers until they change, cheapen them or stop making them. 9 dead animals, exits on 8, none went 100 yards. I'll take those odds all day long. My Muzzy odds weren't any better.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

Actually I didn't know that....and it's why I asked. Motown PM'd me the other day and he was discussing just what we're discussing, here (EXACTLY what WV was talking about).....and he mentioned he didn't think you got a pass-thru on your buck. He's shooting the rage head (has it on his arrows right now, anyways) and he's concerned, too. Its got me thinking.

My numbers aren't bad.....but that one last Friday haunts me thinking "what if". I think I've taken 11 with the rage.....and probably had exits on 9 of those (one was a spine shot....one was an unknown). I've had ONE pass-thru, though....and I'm not exactly flinging lobbing shots in there.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

I used Rocky Mountain Gator 2 blades for years which are very similar to Rage and never not had a complete pass thru. This years buck, my first with the Rage, didn't pass thru but stuck in the off shoulder due to the angle of the shot.
Rage claims better penetration, but from a physics standpointthe more tissue the blade is cutting thru on its pass creates more resistance/drag and will equal less penetration. With a fast enough bow and close range it shouldn't make as much difference though.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

I would agree that more cut on a gut shot is good and I would prefer the bigger head there. But, hitting bone which to me is more likely to happen, I would rather have a smaller fixed head. Neither is wrong,just personal preference. I guess I like to "hug" the shoulder and feel better with the small head. I have had such good success with fixed blades in flight and performance that I am convinced. The buck I shot last Tuesday was a bruiser and I hit bones pretty solid. With the fixed head though, oneblade curled over and the arrow just kept on going. Dont get me wrong, the blade did not "fail", in fact it was still intact and cutting but it allowed the arrow to continue on its intended path.As it isdesigned to do. I would seriously doubt I would have had the same result with a large mechanical. At least I didnt in the past with a very similar shot.Any head will kill if placed in the right spot and a lot of that comes from confidence. I just happen to have my confidence placed in fixed blades.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

Rob I agree with you on that. In that scenario(gut shot) the gashing rip to the gut will probably put them down quicker overall with the rage. Iwas referring to a bad shot like a heavy shoulder bone hit, etc. I personally feel like a good fixed head has better odds of busting through, and doing the job, than a rage does. Just my opinion, and that is where my confidence level lies.

This is one of those things that can be debated to death. Bottom line is we all just need to have a well tuned setup, andbe totally confident with what we use, and do our best to make a good shot.

I see it like the analogy of "if I have to think about whether he's a shooter or not - he's probably not".

If I am in my stand "wondering if my head will do the job" ... I probably should be using something else.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

fletch, WV Hunter, I tend to agree with both of what you said. On the 9 deer I've killed with the Snypers, one hit spine and did exactly what it was suppose to do, this last one took out the biggest of the ribs but all heads can do that. I've never hit solid, solid bone as in the front leg/shoulder and I'd really prefer to be behind that as that puts me too far forward, obviously margin of error but I'd rather be back than forward.

Good stuff guys.

Oh and Jeff, you should have known that, it was in my orginal post. ;) :D

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

Took 3 with rages - only one was a pssthrough but all deer didn't go far

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

The benefit of the Rage type head isthe blade is designed to deflect around bone better than a fixed head. But if you hit a shoulder head on, a trocar tip is the best bet. The Rocky Mountain Gators used to have that tip, but now they changed to the blade-type tip like a Rage. The bladed tipstend to stick into the bone rather than split through it.

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

3for 3 pass thrus

A friend is 4 for 5

Maybe some of you need to use a heavier arrow to help push the Rage thru.

Are you hitting them in the lungs or farther back and hitting guts and lungs?

They won't make it thru the shoulder blade either!! But none will!!

RE: Rage/Snyper users.....Pass Thru's?
 

Rob....lose the paranoia.:D

I read your post ONE time.....the day you killed the deer. I didn't even notice I was so happy for you. I ONLY heard (was reminded) of the arrow not passing through whenChris told me in PM.I didn't recall if you did or didn't (at the time it didn't matter, huh:)). All we knew is you recovered him. Congrats, again!

I didn't know if you had an exit wound either.....hence my question on a totally different topic, today! I STILL love these large cutting mechanicals (the rage and I have to think the snyper is AS devastating). With the discussion going as it has....I'm beginning to lean towards maybe trying the snypers (they MUST eat up less KE going through).

I'm simply on a fact-finding mission and I'm not cutting (no pun intended) on anyone's BH choice. I'm trying to find out what would be optimal for my setup. The rage may not be it! it may be! But the fact that you're pushing SICK KE and not getting pass-thrus concerns me. Maybe it shouldn't.....but it does.

Your results are what they are....and they're commendable. Kudos.