Schultzy

Years back (15 or so) I use to have scrapes everywhere and also a good share of rubs. Some outstanding rubs at that. Years back at this time I would easily find 30 to 40 scrapes on the 130 acres of land my dad owns, 60 acres Is woods and the rest Is Ag land. I'm guessing now that there's 15 scrapes, maybe 20 tops. We've got a good share of 1.5 year old bucks running around this year, just like In the past. Some good 2.5 year olds as well. We've also got 3 to 4 130" range bucks In the area as well (via trail cams) and one sighting on a mid 120's buck I let go.

Why aren't the scrapes and rubs here like they once were? I don't get it! My brother and I who hunt this woods were talking about this the other day and were both wondering the same thing. His take was they just don't make scrapes like they use to. I don't go for that. A buck Is a buck, that's what they do come this time of the year. The competition Is there one would think, thus you would think more scrapes and rubs would be there. Maybe years ago this woods was crawling with P&Y bucks and possibly that's why there was so much buck sign every where. Enlighten me, I'm stumped!

I should add also that years ago (15 or so) this woods was hunted allot harder then It Is now by my brother and I and also by our parents. My dad no longer hunts It being he lives 4.5 hours away and my mom quit hunting after my parents went there separate ways about 9 years ago. It hardly gets the pressure It once did.

Vabowman

Steve I can relate big time...when i was 15 yrs old and in my twenties, man I would rubs everywhere in my woods, scrapes as well, now they are a unique to see almost.. I still find some, but not the amout that i used to see...puzzles me??

cooter144

I don't know why they wouldn't be makingrubs and scrapesin your areaSchultzy?

I starting finding scrapes in my area about two weeks ago and I think last year was the most sign I had seen in many years.

MGH_PA

I honestly felt that I could be the only one experiencing this just last year (and now this year), so I assumed I was simply doing something wrong (possibly too much pressure causing a change in pattern, etc). I remember in my earlier years of bowhunting on my property, there were scrapes and rubs everywhere...and they were consistently in the same place year after year. The last few years (especially last year and this year), they've all but disappeared. I've found a few field edge rubs and scrapes, but I only found one "interior" area with significant rubs on my property during post-season scouting last year. I have no idea for this, or why it's happening. There is no increased pressure on the property. In fact, I've become much more aware of my entry/exit routes, scent, stand rotation, etc to limit the pressure on the area, but the sign dwindles.

SwampCollie

I was falling asleep as I read the article, so pardon me if I cross this up... but the latest issue of Quality Whitetails I read noted something about having too many young bucks in the area and not enough older deer. I don't remember all the specifics. But here is my connect the dot armchair biologist logical shot at it:

Back in the day Schultzy, you had a lot more hunting pressure, and probably like everyone else, back then before the renisscance of QDM, small bucks probably got shot like everything else. We all know the dumbest deer in the woods is a yearling buck.... so I'm sure a fair number of fork horns, spikes and basket 8s got chopped out of that place every year. That left the big boys, who were/are much smarter, to have free run of the place, and rub and scrape and carry on. Now, with more and more does being shot, and small bucks being passed up, you might be having an influx of young bucks.... there will always be more fawns and yearlings than mature deer just due to hunting and natural deaths, or at least a decent split. So maybe you've got a teenage gang running things in your woods this season? Just a thought?

SwampCollie

Thought number 2:

The woods can change a lot in 15 years.... maybe there isn't quite as much cover or browse as there once was... all deer do need one thing... food.... and the carrying capacity will be what it will be and no more. It could be a very very subtle change that has less to do with hunting pressure, and more as a reflection of natural vegetation/agricultural cycles.

MGH_PA

Good point (and I know this was directed as Shultzy, but still). We USED to take about 2-3 bucks off our 90 acres a year (almost entirely rifle season). In the last three or maybe four (I can't remember) years, there have been 0 bucks taken. I'm the only one who hunts it in archery for the most part, and I usually take out one doe, and 0 bucks (I'm hoping to break that trend sometime, lol), but the kills on our property have dropped drastically, so that theory could apply here.

njbuck22

In my mind im not sure if that theory holds water. Im no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but here is my reasoning. It could be a distinct possibility that the proprty has a bunch of yearly bucks (spikes, forks, basket racks, whatever) but they are still bucks. Yearling bucks still make scrapes and rub trees. Maybe not as much, maybe more than mature bucks, i have no idea. Doesnt really matter, a buck is a buck for the most part, and rubbing and scraping is one things bucks do. Just my thoughts on the topic.

It is interesting that this subject was brought up cause the one property that i hunt, which is still a great property and produces good bucks, just doesnt seem to be what it was 3-4 years ago. Back then, it didnt matter what time you walked to your stand, you were going to see deer. If you only saw 6-8 deer a sit, you had a "slow" night. There were rubs and scrapes everywhere. My buddy and i are the only people who hunt there, its in a subdivision, but there just doesnt seem to be the same amount of deer or sign, and we only take 2-3 deer out of there a year. One thing is for certain, whitetail deer hunting sure makes you think.

Schultzy

Very Interesting stuff here! To be honest I didn't think having too many young bucks Is a bad thing. Another thing too I have one neighbor that practices the same management plans my brother and I do- Let the young bucks go and hold out for the 3.5's and up. This same neighbor will also shoot doe's just as we do. We both try to shoot the older looking doe's that are without fawns or the older big doe's that only have a single fawn. The rest of the neighboring land owners/hunters It's brown It's down kinda thing.

Can a woods have too many small bucks? An over abundance of them?

About 15 years ago my dad had this woods slightly logged out so the under growth could get growing. The woods now Is much thicker then It once was.

You had some very good opinions Andy, thanks for the Info.

jackflap

Can't say that I've seen any decrease and we have more than our share of 1.5yo bucks relative to overall population. We also have a high buck/doe ratio like 1.8:3, so I don't know.