Update Wounded? Video Buck.
 

The buck that was topic of the "great debate 08" lol that many felt was hit in the guts and others just over the spine was spotted tonight. It was last light, I was packing up and I glassed down the field one last time. I spotted a single deer in my food plot and could tell that it had antlers and white ones.

I continued to glass it and then he marched right down the field and past me and I verified it was him with my binos. He was healthier than hell so either he wasn't hit in the guts or he wasn't hit at all and MOTOWN was right, it was a very coincidental tuffs of hair. [8D]

Friday will be 2 weeks since he was "supposedly" hit. http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=3101970&mpage=1

RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
 

I'll be the first to admitI was wrong ,I would have bet that deer was fatally wounded.

RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
 

Is this the truth Rob, or are you just saying it to put this issue to bed???[8D]:D

RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
 

Yeah Al, I'm lying to you all. Hell yes I saw him tonight at last light. We'll be back there in the morn, hopefully I'll get him on video again.

RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
 

Just like we figured. Last I saw him/filmed him he really was fine. He didn't appear sickly, I know Rob would have shot him if he had. I was there, good call buddy. I bet tonight felt good seeing him.

RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
 

Then the wounds that were cited as "above the spine" obviously weren't wounds at all. I defer to MEZ on such matters.

No issue with that, then.

RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
 

Why obvious?

I'd like to see Kurt shoot him in the morning to put an end to this.

RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
 

Just playin Rob, i'll take your word for it.[8D]

When who ever does shoot it, it outta be mounted, full body, ruffed up fur and all.

RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
 

Aww man, does this mean I have to change my avatar?[8D]

RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
 

If you don't think it's obvious....then you have a difference of opinion with the most knowledgeable person on animal biology probably on this site (he has published journals on such matters).

He stated very clearly and concisely that the tufts cited as wounds WOULD DEFINITELY have been a below the spine hit....and that the animal would die from them.

So your difference of opinion is with him. I just happen to agree with him...and did all along.

RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
 

It either was above the spine, or was a clean miss. No way guts at this point IMO.

I actually wondered how we knew those were arrow wounds as well when I first look, but I took for granted that it was a confirmed hit. IF there was question on whether it was a hit or not, I say tuffs of hair.

Were those marks still there?

RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
 

I never saw Mez's reply until now. Looks like MOTOWN might be the real expert as he called it first. LOL Possibly not a wound.....I'm hoping Kurt gets a shot in the morn and then we'll know for sure!

RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
 

I thought at one point I saw them, it was dark and the antler was clear, the body was not so much.

RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
 

For the sake of the "discussion", though....it was assumed they WERE entrance/exit wounds by all. I thought his response put that to bed quite nicely.

Tell Kurt I said "hi"....and I wish you both luck.

BTW....answer your damned phone sometime.;)

RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
 

If that buck gets shot and there Is no wounds In front of them back quarters, Motown nailed It right away like Rob said! If It gets shot and them are wounds, what's the argument going to be then?? My take Is no different then before that no guts were ever touched period whether that's a wound or not. It would be dead other wise.

I bet you never expected this Rob?!?;)

RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
 

LOL....LOTS of people said the "wounds" were above the spine....and that no guts were hit.

Like I said....whether they were wounds or not....the premise accepted by all discussing it was that they were wounds.

So how do we know who "nailed it" without knowing if they ARE wounds? Far as I'm concerend....we can't.

RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
 

Goodness gracious, you are getting by the year.

RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
 

Yep, I am one of them.:D

Hard to prove anything If It don't get shot. If It gets shot, thank god we'll all have our answer.

RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
 

Just in case you missed it.....here is MEZ's reply on the "other" thread...

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Haven't logged on in a while. In case anyone cares here are my opinions on the shot, or lack thereof. ;)

As to the exit wound, definately in the abdominal cavity. No question in my mind that the arrow passed under the vertebral column. The still pictures it is very hard to tell. You can see no topographical landmarks on the deer in the still photos to relate the exit hole with. Also there is alot of angle in the shots, making the hole actually appear higher on the deer's body than it actually is.You get a much clearer picture from theclose up video posted on page 8.In the video you can see bony landmarks to equate the exit hole with.I lableld the picture below with those bony landmarks and some other anatomical things of note.



Two black circles: The top one is the tuber coxae, you can clearly see this in the video, and as you can see in the above picture it lies directly over the spine. Bottom one is the location of the patella in the stifle joint, harder to see but I know where it is on the video.

Red circle: Exit wound 2/3 of the way between the patella and tuber coxae. Well below the spine.

Two red lines: lumbar vetebrae and thoracic vertebrae, notice the height difference. Huge difference. It is much harder to shoot over the spine in the lumbar area than it is in the thoracic area. The whiters, area between the shoulder blades are much higher than that over the back.
Two more pics to illustrate this, the first is a thoracic veterbrae, the second is lumbar, note the height difference.



The angle is irrelevant in the photos. There is only one way for there to be an exit wound wherethis oneappears to be and have not entered the abdominal cavity. That would be from directly straight above the deer pushing down between the skin and body wall. IMO, if the arrow exited at the tuft in the photos and video, dead deer. Cut the rumen, and likely small intestine as well. Gut shot and he'll die.

My other opinion, your cousin missed the deer clean Rob. In the video I can't see any evidence that that is an arrow wound. At three days were that a wound there would be drainge from the wound or at least evidence of drainage. There is none. Appears to be a tuft of hair to me. There is clearly a wound on the neck of the deer but I would say that wound is a minimum of 10 days old by the appearance. You can see the skin is pink. That is either new skin or simply a patch of missing hair.
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RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
 

I seen his post the other night. It was a good post, time will tell.

RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
 

I also say over the spine and out the other side just above the guts. I didn't read the whole original post but here's one thing I think many people are not considering:

The camera angle of the buck in question is not nearly the same angle of the illustrations/diagrams used to suppost the gutshot claims. When you are looking down at a deer from an elevated position, 1 foot down from where you thinkor visually see asthe top of its back is not really 1 foot down from the horizontal top of its back. This might only make sense to a few but you have to take a 3-d image of the deer and rotate it in your head to see what I'm saying. If you can do that, you'll see that it wasn't gutshot.

RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
 

If you look at the video Rob posted there is not near the angle affect as in the still photos. The video footage is very close to broadside. The video footage is also the only place that you can see any sort of topographical landmarks to get an idea of where the exit wound actually is located on the deer.

There is a huge difference between anatomy and topographical anatomy. Believe me, things are not always where they seem. To get any kind of true appreciation of where things are located on a living, moving animal you have to be able to see identifiable, fixedlandmarks and then equate from there. The angle becomes irrelevant in the video that was taken. The hair tuft/exit wound is clearly below the spine. It would need to be 4 inches higher on that deer to have been above the spine.

To any who butcher their own. The next deer you kill, after you strip off the backstraps, see how little of an angle you need to place on your arrow for it to enter the body cavity just in front of the pelvis. The amount of room between the topline and the spine near the rear end of a deer is nowhere near the same as over the chest cavity. To shoot a deer from and elevated postion, arrow entering and exiting a deer just in front of the pelvis, and not passing below the spine would require your stand height to be about 4 feet off the ground, and then you better be short. To accomplish this you would almost need to be shooting straight horizontalthrough the deer. There just isn't a lot of room back there to accomplish this. This is a completely different situation than sending one through the backstraps up near the chest and shoulder blades.