poor penetration
 

Not an x-rated post, I'm talking archery hunting here!
Thurs morning I recovered a doe that I shot Weds night, I was really worried about this one because after taking the 10yrd shot I watched her run thru the corn and into the bush with 1/2 my arrow visible on the entrance side! Luckily my steep angled shot was good and her running with a broadhead in the boiler room did the trick, but this wasn't the 1st time this has happened.
My archery career consists of 3 deer shot, 2 recovered, all 3 ran off with only 1/2 arrow penetration even though all were hit in the rib area (not heavy shoulder or other arrow stopper). Why don't I get pass thrus?

50-60lb bow dialed right up (58-60lb)
small sharp fixed 3 blade heads

I think the problem may be that I have a ridiculously short draw length for my size, I'm 5'11" average body type but for some crazy reason I only draw 26.5"

Maybe I should be asking this in technical forum, I'm actually considering increasing my draw length and giving up on form to increase power! There is nothing wrong with my bow but if I have to replace it I will, I'd just hate to drop all that money and continue to have the same problem.

Any suggestions?

RE: poor penetration
 

i would stick with wat is more comfortable for u or else u might be sory JMO

RE: poor penetration
 

Overdraw maybe? I have a friend who uses one to solve the same issue.Seems to have corrected his problem.

Dave

RE: poor penetration
 

SMDA, is Overdraw a product, I'm not sure what you are referring to.

RE: poor penetration
 

Some bow hunters like to make the draw length a little over what theirs is. Just to get more fps/energy out of the bow.

You can go down to the bow shop and chrono your bow. A change in arrow will increase your FPS.
Also, "2 blade broadheads tend to get better penetration", so say the pros.

But for fact i do know this.
My bow shoots carbon express 250 arrows at 231 FPS.
The bow shop i deal with said i can increase my fps by change in arrow, so they showed me.
The guy handed me a bemin ICS arrow equivalent to the CE250's.
It shot this arrow at 250 fps.

Maybe thats all you need is a little bit of fps to see better results.

RE: poor penetration
 

How much do your arrows weigh? What kind of speed are you getting from your bow?

My bow is at 43lbs. I have just under 40 foot pounds of energy. I have a 26" draw (or 25.5" can't remember).
I use 125 grain, 3 blade muzzys with 1 3/16" cutting diameter. My total arrow weight is 368 grains.

My arrow passes completely through most every deer I shoot.

If I had to guess, I'd say you're arrows are not flying straight or they are way too light.

RE: poor penetration
 

One of my buddies shoots a 50 lb. Fred Bear Element with a 27" draw length. I don't think he even gets 230 fps out of his Easton Excel 500 series arrows - but still seems to get good penetration. I'm wondering if you don't have some sort of a tuning issue where your arrow is going into the deer at a bit of angle? You might also consider going to the Axis FMJ arrow. These arrows seem to penetrate better than just about any arrow of the same weight.

RE: poor penetration
 

HNI_Christine

I agree it is going to be an arrow issue, i think if he did what i said about chrono the bow at his local and ask some questions he will get pass through with any broadhead of choice. Too many have done it.
I think the evidence at mathews tv about 2 blade broadheads getting better penetration is because less friction surface and they tested this theory in foam targets.

RE: poor penetration
 

What we sometimes think is poor penetration ......due to only seeing a portion of our arrow in the animal as they flee is......actually the arrow having backed back out to that position after hitting something inside. Happened to me on my first deer ever.

If you'd asked me how much penetration I got on that deer....I'd have told you 1/2 my arrow. In reality.....I had an exit wound on the off-side....but the arrow struck the off-side leg bone and backed out to that point.

There's NOTHING inside a deer's chest cavity to warrant stopping an arrow. IMO.....it's hitting something on the other side (in most instances) and backing out to where we see it as they flee. I'm not saying it can't happen (penetration of only a few inches).....but I'm betting my explanation is the norm and not the exception.

RE: poor penetration
 

good point germ. I would check the arrow issues out before going with overdraw on your bow. Might go alittle heavy i plan to next season. My arrows are light not to light. But i think there to light for hunting. The place i bought them was all about 3d shooting not hunting. I plan to go with the higher weight arrows for my draw and weight. Wait till i start hitting you guys up for info on that issue come march.

RE: poor penetration
 

An overdraw is NOT the way to go for your problem. I would advise you not to mess with your anchor point either. Three deer is not a whole lot of data to determine there actually is a problem. If you hit bone, that could be the problem. A pass through is nice but not needed to recover a deer, shot selection is much more important. Just make sure you are using the best razor sharp strong broad heads and the right arrow.

RE: poor penetration
 

Thanks guys, but I think my bow is tuned pretty well, at the very least all arrows sticking out of my target are straight on, not cocked to either side. And I have spent some time at the pro shop trying different weights and such, no chrono, but I did shoot a bunch of different weights with a fellow that knows alot more than I standing behind me and I listened to his suggestions. Maybe I should try another shop?
GMMAT, I hear you but don't think that is the problem, I found the fletch end of the arrow from this last deer and it was clean, broken off mid length from brush but no blood or any other indicators on it, completely clean. I was surprised to find an exit wound on this doe and no arrow in the body, I think it actually worked its way thru the other side from her running and squirming! I watched the shot in good light at 10yrds, there is no way the arrow penetrated that much on the shot.

RE: poor penetration
 

I would run it through paper before the chrony - if you are not shooting bullet holes that will be a huge factor in penetration.

RE: poor penetration
 

Shoot some bare shaft arrows out of your bow. Look to see if they're still straight. Also, do your field points and broadheads group together? Those are two quick and easy ways to see if something might be wrong with your arrow flight.

RE: poor penetration
 

I wish you guys were all closer! I'd love to do one of the get-togethers and learn a bunch from you all!

RE: poor penetration
 

So you think it worked its way through....other than backed out?

I highly doubt that's the case.....but if that's what you believe......

Do you realize how fast it would back out? Think about how long your arrow is....and how "deep" a doe's body is. It's not surprising you wouldn't have blood on your fletchings if they never entered her body.

I'm just giving you my impression of whats been described. Punching through and backing out is MUCH more plausible to me than partial penetration, initially, and then working through.

RE: poor penetration
 

Exactly my response.

RE: poor penetration
 

Now I'm becoming skeptical about what happened because I really respect the opinions of some of some (alot) of ppl here, but on the other hand I was there. Light was fading but it was only a 10yrd shot, I watched it happen. Also, the exit wound I found doesn't line up at all with the entrance wound, it should have been low front, but instead was as far back as the entrance wound.
The 1/2 arrow I recovered was spotless, I'm positive that it didn't enter and exit, it was like new!

RE: poor penetration
 

If you have an exit hole on the other side of the ribcage, it's doubtful the arrow backed out. Rather, the arrow just stuck out a bit on the other side and the fletch end broke off and the broadhead end pulled through the offside. This is indeed a sign that you are getting poor penetration if you're shooting over 55lbs.

Arrows will back up, this is usually when you hit the offside shoulder or leg.(as mentioned above) It does happen fast enough that you can't really see it. However, if you looked at the inside of the ribcage and the offside shoulder you'd see evidence of the arrow hitting there. (if you process your own deer)

Seriously, bare shaft shoot your bow and shoot it through paper. Those things aren't up to conjecture. ;)

RE: poor penetration
 

Try a heavier arrow, is your bow tuned?
Your draw is short for your height lol. I'm the opposite, I have monkey arms.

RE: poor penetration
 

Where a deer's off-side leg is when you shoot.....and where it is when your arrow gets to the deer can be two distinvtly different places. I shot my first doe this year from 8yds. In the time she bolted to leave.....I think her front leg moving back to bolt broke my arrow off at the fletch. I can't think of another plausible reason why my arrow broke.

Here's the entrance....



And the exit........



These are amazingly fast reacting animals. If alert....nothing they do surprises me. I still think she snapped off my arrow with her leg while it was going through her.

Christine....

Just so I'm clear....Are you saying that the arrow backing out is "rare"....and that the most plausible reason why you often have exit wounds is the BH working it's way through the body? Just trying to understand your last post.

RE: poor penetration
 

Good Point Christine, I'm seriously in doubt that it's the bow, but I'd have to see the shot placement to say for sure.

If you're 5'11" I think someone measured you wrong to put you in a 26.5" draw, unless you have really short arms, you should be at LEAST a 27.5, I'm just a hair short of 6' even, and I can comfortably draw and shoot a 31" bow of my buddy's when he's having issues and needs another set of hands to tinker. Are your arrows flying true??? I've seen quite a whip on arrows getting fletch contact, my own several times as well as others, that may make that arrow hit the deer when it's flight is erratic, which would certainly create penetration issues. Have you ever filmed your release or do you have someone that can to see if the arrow is coming out of the bow true and clean??? You could always do the foot powder or lipstick test and see if you don't have a little contact issue. That will screw up a LOT of things!!!

RE: poor penetration
 

I"m only 5"6" and draw a 27 3/4 inch 400 axis at 415 grains at 70 lbs draw weight and never have had a problem blowing through deer. I have even over the year**** a couple shoulder blades andhad pass throughs. Poundage, arrows and which broad heads play a part in penetration along with many other factors. Isaw a womans arrow pass through a buck at 25 yards and skip off the ground once with a 35 lb compound, very tiny around carbon arrow, cut on impact broadheadsand a 25 inch draw. Maybe your bow is not tuned well and the arrow had not got straightened out when it hit at 10 yards and you would of got better penetration out at 15 are 20 yards. I always can remember onetime back in the 70"s hitting a buck at about 40 yards with a 65 lb recurve and the arrow got through the shoulder blade on the exit side and a week later out of state shooting a buck at15 yards hitting the shoulder and the arrow only went in broadhead deep and bounce out of the buck. You got the deer. Check your bow out and make sure it's in tune and than move on. Arrows will do funnythings some times on a hit.

RE: poor penetration
 

alright, I'm only 5'10" 1/2 lol
I have always questioned that myself, but my anchor point is comfortable and consistent. I'm sure I could shoot a bit longer but it would probably screw with my form.
Maybe my form is causing a short draw length? I have shot in front of a few guys who claim to be techs, but I'm not sure, T.O. doesn't have a huge hunting culture, especially bow hunters; I'm a bit of an anomoly up here.
I'll see if I can get my house mate to take a pic of me at full draw, I'd appreciate any comments.