What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

IMO.....any deer under 3.5 ......his potential is simply "unknown"....maybe even 4.5yrs.

IMO....any deer 3.5yrs+ is a trophy in his own right (Based on age, ALONE).

So.....I have a hard time with the term "cull buck". He's either a juvenile....who's potential can't be determined at his young age.....or....he's a mature "trophy".

What's your take?

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

Ours all die before 3.5 so no one will ever know.

Some call them "cull" bucks........others call them "Rob" bucks ;)

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

I hate the term "cull buck", drives me nuts!!

I think at 2.5 years old you can tell on some bucks that there not going to turn out like you want them to. Not all, but some.

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

I only see that term as relative to someone's management goals, if they have one... mature buck is typically determined by the age of 4.5 yrs or older I say. As far as abuck being a cull buck...well I guess if you manage for BIG mature bucks, then it would be a deer that is 4.5 yrs old with no potential to grow any larger or has poor genes so to speak...a 4.5 yr old with a score under 125" maybe a cull buck to some people and places, again it is relative to location and goals. just my 2 cents, but I have no experience in aging bucks or managing them....

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

Any buck that isn't a button buck is a "cull" buck for me ;)

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

NOT a fan of the term “cull” buck. In most circles it is a cop out to shoot a small young buck. I’d rather people just fess up and say I wanted to shoot this buck, rather than trying to cover it with an excuse.
Now if it really is a weird freaky dink that is a little older I can understand a bit better, but I still don’t think it makes much difference one way or the other.

Although not a fan of the way highly managed properties are run, I learned many of the mature “cull” bucks that are shot are not necessarily to remove their genes, but to remove their mouths from the herd. It’s a shame that a huge mature buck can be deemed insignificant on highly managed properties, when it would be the talk of the town in other places.

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

I do not believe in a cull buck existin 100% free ranging herd that is manage my state DNR.
If you want to shoot a deer, just shoot one like PT and call it could. I hate it when guys state they shot the deer because of a "bad rack"(not you Rob:D)

This is just what I think, maybe I have never seen one[8D]

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

yeh my whole perception of the management thing is not good. I mean we have never had a management rule anywhere I hunt. Last year at my club we killed 97 bucks and out of them, 27 were 2.5 yrs old or older..one took 2nd in the state this year and scored 193" ...we killed everything from spikes to 12 pts and in between....there will always be big bucks if the food and land will hold them in this area I hunt..

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

Thank you.;)

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

The term means nothing to me. Ihave not or will never use it in any scenario that has or will face me.

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

In PA we have 2 types of bucks.........
Non legal bucks (less than 3pts to a side for most of the state), and DEAD bucks.

;)

Cull buck is a term that does not exist here, and that's no exaggeration.

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

Any buck can be a cull buck. The way I determine is size of the deers body vs its antlers. A good 2 1/2 year old buck should deffinatley be more than a spike or 3 pointer.

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

From Webster: Cull is to choose, select, pick, gather, pluck

Maybe it's just a spin on words, but I will "choose" to "cull" out a severly wounded buckthat I would not otherwise shoot.

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

ditto.

Jeff, you or I may never get a chance to use that term, unless we head to Texas. IMO a cull buck is at least 4.5 on a heavily managed tract, that has a less than a set amount of inches. I agree with the use of the term in this respect. In PA, or NC for that matter, I totally think that you are right about the age being "trophy worthy" in its own right.

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

I agree that they are not cull bucks until they reach 3.5......We have a lot of mature 5pts, 4pts, 6pts, etc in some of the areas I hunt. They may not score 80pts, but they are big, mature deer..... I consider those cull bucks and in most leases we are allowed to shoot those deer and they not count against our total buck count.

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

I don't care for the term. Here in Tx on some highly managed ranches a buck could be considered a "cull buck" because its "only" an 8 point at 3.5yo. It may be 140 inches but because its "only" an 8 and may never be a 10 or 12 its considered a cull. I think that sucks. Oh and you can bet your butt they charge a nice fee to shoot that "cull"!

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

A recent study published in the Journal of Wildlife Management states that culling bucks base on antler size up to 4.5 years of age is not a viable way to determine potential. Even if you were to wait until 4.5 years of age before culling the gene from that buck will have already been spread and will continue to spread through hisfemale offspring.

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

Wow I guess I better change my thread about my first buck being a "cull" buck:eek:


You want my opinion of a cull buck, it's the buck I shot on Saturday. Why you ask? Last year this buck was a four point. His right side looked exactly as it does this year. No change to him means I don't want him in my herd reproducing. I would rather have nicer eights and tens in my herd then a goofy looking five point. JMO

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

How old is that buck? Because he has a one antler deformity....it's likely due to an injury....and wouldn't affect his genes in the least.

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

IMO, there is no such thing. Even if a given deer is known to be 4.5+, but even still a spike...you can "cull" him but all you have done is "kill" him.I don't believe you are not significantly changing the overall genetics of your herd.

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

I would guess 2 1/2, MAYBE 3 1/2

He had no injury, no hurt legs, no tumors, nothing wrong with him.

Like I said, he hung around last year and looked the same on his right side. His left side last year was forked off. So one side improved, the other didn't

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

IMO, I think the term "cull buck" is crap and nothing more than execuse to shoot a young (small) buck. Let's say a guy shoot a 2 1/2 year 7 point and says that the deer would never of been more than a 7 pointer. Well that may be true, but he will had lenght and mass, so his score will increase. Then you have people who "cull" deer in an attempt to keep only the "good" genes. I don't know about everyone else, but I think you would have shoot a whole bunch of deer to really effect the gene pool of the heard. So again, I think it is pretty much a crap term.

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

Cull? Or not??;)

Same deer......

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

A "cull" buck is usually one that suffers from major "ground shrinkage" from what thethe hunter thought he was shooting at as approaches the dead animal. Therefore, a good story is concocted to justify his actions and why this deer was needed to be taken.

On a serious note, I am not smart enough to determine what has reached its potential or not or even 100% sure the age of one on the hoof.

I do KNOW however, that it is IMPOSSIBLE for a 1.5 to become a 3.5 next year, but the 2.5 that is passed this year will most DEFINITELY be a 3.5 yo next year. If you believe as you stated that any 3.5 yo is a trophy, then you would fall into my line of thinking in not taking any deer thought to 2.5 yo bucks.

But back to culling and aging. Here is two pics of young deer that I saw this past weekend. The first one's body is HUGE compared to the other young bucks I saw, yet his rack is less than most. Is it possible that he is a 2.5yo with little potential? A 2.5yo whose potential cannot yet be determined? Or is he just a a big bodied 1.5yo?

I also included a pic of the smalles bodied buck I saw this weekend for comparison purposes.

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

Im sure Rob would be considered a cull to some and still may this year.... You be the judge: And this is not the only deer that has had these characteristics, A 13 pnt 160" was shot in .... 04-05(?) and it is on video, he was with a 7 point just as listed below.

2007 @ 2.5 years old.




2008 @ 3.5 years old

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

Guess what guys... they get just as many of their genes from the doe! Who here shoots "cull" does b/c they are passing on bad rack genetics? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? Fry? Fry?

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

I Actually read in D&DH that 60% comes from the doe ....

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

Honestly:

Cull Buck- a copp out, or an excuse.

edit to say I agree with Rybo. I should have read first[&:]

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

That's because it's not readily apparent what kind of genes the doe is throwing, as far as antlers are concerned or I'm sure the practice would take place. Since bucks do show their potential; deer managers try to control what they can see. Now that being said, I think the term has a place in deer management. I think there are some bucks at 4.5 years old and older that don't have the genetics that people, that are managing their land, want passed on. However, I do feel like the term is overused and is often used inappropriately.

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

None of my Rob bucks have been cull bucks. I loved them and took them for their age and one cause it was my first and only birthday buck. Like my fellow PA brothers have said, aint no such thing as a cull buck in PA.

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

Yes, thank you for clearing that up[&:]:D

The fact that bucks domost of their breeding at 1.5 and 2.5, when they are too young to really know what they are going to be when mature, makes the whole idea rather ludicrous as far as I am concerned.

I also just flat out disagree with the thought that a buck is measured soley by the size of his antlers. This gets to the heart of the difference between QDM and antler management.

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

I don't really believe there is a such thing as a cull buck. I wonder if the term "cull buck" would have ever came up, if the "big shot" t.v. guys wouldn't have started making excuses about shooting a sub-standard buck to them.

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

I agree with everything you said, especially the bold statement. I hear the term "cull buck" WAY too often in MI. We definitely don't need to kill anymore young bucks regardless of their "genetics". It is also used an excuse to kill a young buck around here. Definitely annoys me everytime I hear it.

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

And that's your perogative and it's therefore understood that you won't be using the term to describe anything you kill. BUT, I personally don't have any objections with someone that has the resources to manage the deer herd on their property with specific objectives of growing big deer. Whether you like or agree with the term, the fact is that is a necessary managment tool for people that are managing the herd on their property for big antlers. I don't have the resources to do that nor do I know anyone that does. But I certainly don't begrudge anyone that does have the resources and chooses to do so as long as they do so within the limits of the law. I don't think you can call a buck a "cull buck" until he's 4.5 and shown what his potential is. Which is precisely what serious deer managers do.

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

Those of you that think the term "cull buck"is a cop-out used for immature deer are totally missing the point. Maybe because you live where deer are not allowed to grow to maturity. A "cull" buck here is a MATURE deer that does not posess the antler configurations we desire. It is not a young animal with a tiny rack. By mature, I am talking 5 1/2 yrs. or older. Yes, by that age it is quite easy to tell if he will be the kind of animal you want to have breeding your does. 60% of the genetics come from the doe?? If so, then we still have some input on the other 40%. Not bad if you ask me. My son took a "cull" buck from our farm last year that was an 8 pt. and probably only scored about 120" at 6 1/2 years old. On the other hand, we allowed several younger deer that would score more walk because they have the potential to become huge and are passing along great genetics. Yes, there are "cull" bucks and there are cop-outs but dont confuse the two. You first must have the ground and herd to manage before you can define a cull for your area.

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

Jeff, funny you bring these pics back up. I was out trapping minnows yesterday and thought about bringing this same topic up and posting those pics again.

The story goes.......

December 28th 2004 I was late season bow hunting on the family land in WI. I saw a huge doe walking my way and got ready. When it got closer I noticed it was a buck that had shed both antlers within 12 hours of coming by me. The other thing I noticed was his tounge hanging out and he had a huge overbite. At 10 yards, I almost smoked him, because of his deformity.....but decided to let him walk.

The next year we never saw him until after season. We gota couple pics of him, but he had already shed one side. (your first picture) Notice the size of his rack and his tounge hanging out.

The following year, 2006, I was not going to be able to hunt the family land until late season bow again. I wanted to shoot this buck in the worst way....he was very mature (5.5-6.5) and extremely unique. During the WI gun season that year I was in SK and called the cabin to see how the hunt was going back home. My brother answered the phone and told me the story of a 23pt non-typical the neighbor had shot, 100 yards from our land. He told me "your not going to believe this, but its the overbite buck." My heart skipped a beat. I told him, "No freaking way that's the same buck. There's no way he could grow that much in one year." Well, he did and these are the pics to prove it.

So, if you ask me, cull buck is a lame term made up by the Texas ranches in order to shoot mature deer with less of a rack and still make money on them. If they didn't come up with the term Management Buck, no one would want to shoot those deer, only the big racked bucks. There's where it stated and unforutnately that's not where its staying.

I've said it before, if you want to start talking about trophy status of a buck, lets start taking pics of their teeth.

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

"Culling" or taking a "Management" buck is a luxury for those who can control their herd like they were cattle.
I have shot some small 8's and even a fork or two but I'm just doing my part. It's a sacrifice I make for the overall well being of the herd. Or did I shoot them cause I wanted too?

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

Well said Silent.

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

How old is the buck in the photo?

RE: What's your opinion of the term "Cull buck"?
 

Definitely not a cull deer here yet in the top photo because he is not mature.