RE: Just Have To Say
 

You just don't "get it" do ya???? Aren't you in Wisconsin???? The state with the CWD Problem???? Go back and read again, CWD IS CONTAGIOUS, AND IS SPREAD BY CONGREGATING DEER, that's WHY it's ILLEGAL in most of the places it's illegal!!!!

RE: Just Have To Say
 

This is neither a for or against reply, because if your State makes it legal who am I to say what's right?

But if we are saying a pile of corn and a confield are the same thing. I'd say these people have never hunted in or around a big cornfield. How many deer can hide in your corn pile? Deer can walk right around you in a cornfield (and will) without ever needing to exit it for "flight" Big cornfields can actually make hunting much tougher, rather than easier.

Have you ever still-hunted a corn field? (thats getting out of your treestand and actually hunting by "walking" ;)) You can see plenty of deer by walking within the rows. Shooting opportunities...well...it would take the perfect scenerio, imagine putting your target at 20 yards down a corn row see any possible interference? Try walking around your cornpile..see what you see? [:-]

RE: Just Have To Say
 

Touche' ;)

RE: Just Have To Say
 

BUT I DONT REALLY BELIEVE IN THE WHOLE "CWD" SCARE, AND THERE ARE PLENTY OF HUNTERS THAT DONT EITHER! MAYBE YOU SHOULD DO SOME RESEARCH AND SEE THAT THIS SO CALLED "KILLER" OF A DISEASE, HAD BEEN AROUND FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS, AND POPULATIONS HAVE BEEN FINE! THERE HAVE BEEN PLENTY OF TESTS RUN ON ANIMALS AND WHAT TRIGGERS CWD, AND MOST OF THE INFO DOESNT POINT TO THE SPREAD FROM JUST HUNTING OVER A SMALL BAIT PILE!!
I DONT CARE THAT A CORNFIELD IS BIGGER, OR THAT IT CAN HIDE DEER...IM OUT THERE DOING ALL THAT I CAN TO READ, TRACK, SCOUT AND RECORD DEER MOVING IN MY PROPERTY, AND IF I CAN HAVE A VARIABL WORKING ON MY SIDE, THATS COMPLETLY NATURAL, AND SAFE...THEN I GUESS I WOULD LOVE TO TAKE IT!

RE: Just Have To Say
 

bait piles bait piles bait piles....piles of bait everywhere.....just put some bait out. Bait em I tell you....bait the deer....bait bait bait. Lovely bait piles.

RE: Just Have To Say
 

YEA ! WHAT HE SAID..................
CEPT WITH CAP LOCS AND BIG FONT

RE: Just Have To Say
 

See Link.....

http://www.cwd-info.org//pdf/FeedingDeer.pdf

RE: Just Have To Say
 

There's never been a case of CWD documented (or even reported to my knowledge) in NC.....yet we see thousands and thousands of hunters bait every year.

The skyisn't falling, here.

GR8.....a bait pile and a corn field are the same insofar as they are both artificial. Past that....the differences are the size, only (as they relate to being "BAIT").......being utilized as cover notwithstanding.

RE: Just Have To Say
 

RE: Just Have To Say
 

Didn't the American Indian's show the pilgrims how to plant maze using a fish for fertilizer.
Seems like its been around long enough to not be considered artificial.;)

RE: Just Have To Say
 

"You just don't "get it" do ya???? Aren't you in Wisconsin???? The state with the CWD Problem???? Go back and read again, CWD IS CONTAGIOUS, AND IS SPREAD BY CONGREGATING DEER, that's WHY it's ILLEGAL in most of the places it's illegal!!!!"

I hunt in places that do not have crop field for 10's of miles---and guess what? I have seen deer congregate in herds of 8-10...........that kind of breaks down the logic as to baiting causes the spread of cwd. Deer will congregate and sure will copulate regardless.

RE: Just Have To Say
 

Deer are going to get it no matter where they congregate, all it takes is one sick deer. Baiting has nothign to do with it, it just helps spread it. I read that first case of CWD recorded in WI. was back in 1963 or somn like that. Ill have to find the article again. Theyve had CWD out west for longer than we ever had. And they didnt bait back then, not like they do now. Istill bait but not as much as I used to, but not because of CWD because i was tired of bashing and restocking the piles lol. Now I only bait as a treat. a few small apple piles scattered around the woods, not great big heaping piles of them, actually none of my apples are in piles, i scatter them theres fore the deer have to look for them instead of eating off a pile.

RE: Just Have To Say
 

I don't bait...doesn't really appeal to me. Its illegal in VA anyways. That being said, like GMMAT said, there is not really any difference between having the money to own and manage large crop fields that attract deer and being on a limited budget and baiting here and there to attract deer.

RE: Just Have To Say
 

No Jeff, they're NOT. A pile of corn doesn't allow the deer to hide in it, maybe even to the extent that you don't even know that a certain deer exists until the corn is cut. When you have a few hundred acres of corn, sometimes the deer take up living in it, and REALLY don't appear until it's been cut and they have no place to hide anymore. It's not the SAME by any means. The only thing that is the same is there IS corn, but one 3'x3' pile of corn is completely different than a 50 acre cornfield, or a 200acre cornfield that the deer have literally been living in for the first 5 weeks of hunting season until it's cut.

Jeff,
If you don't know how to hunt and NEED bait to kill deer, I understand, and that's ok. (NOTE: EXTREME SARCASM!!!) I'm not totally against baiting, I just think it takes some of the "HUNT" out of it. Go to a state that doesn't allow hunting then what do you do???? Then you actually have learn to scout, learn to read sign, and pick a spot and trial it to see if the deer are moving through it in the morning or evening, or if they are even using it at all when you could actually shoot them????



virginshadow,
There's a different between deer congregating under an big massive oak tree in a 50ft radius, and deer congregating on a pile of corn that is 3' x 3'. Read the article, don't just refute what is said because I say it. I'm just putting forth what he true SCIENTISTS aka WILDLIFE BIOLOGISTS found, not some rhetoric that I made up.

RE: Just Have To Say
 

One other difference is that one is put there specifically to attract deer and the other one was put there to eventually harvest. Oh yeah, one other difference is that you can get a depradation permit to keep the deer from eating one out of season and the other one can only be hunted during the proper season. There may be more but those came to mind right now.

RE: Just Have To Say
 

You highlighted what you wanted to hear in my statement and TOTALLY disregarded the rest of it....which SPECIFICALLY addressed the cover issue. We can discuss the use of corn as cover if you want....but the thread is discussing baiting. Cat tails would work for cover. Conceded.

Before you talk down your nose to/at me.....understand I've killed 14 deer via bow in the last two years and haven't baited one of them. If you wanna discuss how I hunt....I'd be happy to.

Bruce:

I know people here who plant corn and soy beans with NO interest in harvesting the first bushel. I see 'em knocked down and combined in the fields. You think I'm kidding.....but I'm not. What's the difference in this and baiting? I'm not taling about an acre, either.;)

RE: Just Have To Say
 

Take a good 12 volt feeder that throws corn in a 50 or 60 footcircle, and what is the difference between that and a good old white oak that is a consistent producer? Small items spread randomly over thesame area with the same distribution. One was placed by God, and one by man, but what is the real difference? Or that persimmon tree with the especially sweet fruit. Or the natural mineral lick vs the one in a bag? How it got there has almost nothing to do with what it really is.

The disease has been around forever, and has been spread by natural means for just as long. The only real difference is that with modern technology we have just begun to measure it. In most areas of the country, population levels were decimated in the early 1900's to the point disease transmission was very low. It is the near record levels of whitetail population across most of it's range that is really responsible for the spread of disease, not bait piles. High population density is the conduit for rapid disease transmission, and mother nature has a way of leveling the field when it gets too high. Some areas of the country are more prone to it than others. And you don't have to refer me to a wildlife biologist, I am one.:D

RE: Just Have To Say
 

Thanks, Critr;)

Funny....I talk with our NCWRC bio. a lot via email (Chris Kreh)....and I recently gained access through a neighboring landowner's (to the land I just acquired) property to hunt the land I have permission on (and he gave me access to his 50 acres;)). Turns out he's a teaching professor (DR. of Wildlife Biology) at WFU (my office is about 1 mi. from campus).

I am wearing him out!.....lol He LOVES to talk about this stuff.;)

Nice to know that about you Critr.:)

RE: Just Have To Say
 

Without stepping into the ring too much, I thought I'd just share an interesting article published in this month's Minnesota DNR magazine. Not trying to make a point here. Just thought is was related and interesting.

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/volunteer/sepoct08/bait.html

RE: Just Have To Say
 

What's interesting minnesota.....is the findings of the studies and the PERSONALOPINIONS of the quoted contributors don't seem to jive.;)

RE: Just Have To Say
 

Well Jeff, I am not currently employed as a biologist, I took a different job to get back close to my family for personal reasons, but I do help out some of the folks around here. That is what my degree is in though and I am still tied into that field. I guess I am part biologist.:D:D:D

RE: Just Have To Say
 

Can't ever take that away from you....and you earned it. No matter your current profession....YOU ARE a wildlife bio.

Kudos, sir.;)

RE: Just Have To Say
 

How dare they get that close without a bait pile!

RE: Just Have To Say
 

Saw something interesting last night, Brett.....scouting. (this photo reminded me)

EVERY deer has blown its summer coat (that I saw). Sure made them harder to see in the wet beans.;) I know it'll serve them well in the woods, too.

RE: Just Have To Say
 

Ok,I will insert an opinion. :DPer the article, I agree with the philosophy, if its illegal in your state, it presents the possibility of HELPING SPREAD not causing CWD and Tuburculosis, and you don't need it to attract one of the 1.2 million deer in the state, then why do it. I have never baited and yet every gun season, I have had countless number of deer in range on private and public lands at all points of the day. So why? I studies travel routes and knew where the does were all year and where the bucks would be with them in Oct./Nov. A father doen't need to bait to help his son get his first deer in this state. I also don't buy the arguement, I put a pile of Acorn Rage down to get the deer to stop for a clean shot. You can do the same thing with some bottled scent or make a mock scrape and pee on it yourself.

$300 for illegally baiting is also a little low in opinion. I think taking your license/tags for the rest of the season should be added on.

RE: Just Have To Say
 

Good read Minnesota!!

RE: Just Have To Say
 

And they look AWFUL SKINNY too, maybe they need "BETTER BAIT" to sustain them better!!! :D

RE: Just Have To Say
 

I thought the article was an interesting read also. As a note, did you notice their answer to the Bovine TB crisis was, in part, to kill 2650 deer? Read- reduce population to control the spread of disease.;) In general though, hunters do not like hearing biologists talk of reducing population. Not all hunters mind you, but alot of them.

RE: Just Have To Say
 

Most of the people who compare the 2 Cooter have never hunted a corn field but seem to know everything about it. Corn fields suck if you ask me!! There a place where bucks will sit in when the rut comes around because the doe's are feeding and bedding in there. If we still have corn standing when gun season rolls around the number of kills is way down. Corn Is more of a protector then a feed plot by a long shot!!!!!

RE: Just Have To Say
 

I take a chance every time I get on an airplane that I will die in a plane crash. But since it's never happened to me.....I don't give it much thought when I fly.

There has NEVER been a case of CWD reported in my state. Yet, we allow baiting.

If it's illegal in your state......there doesn't need to be ANOTHER valid reson not to do it.

RE: Just Have To Say
 

+1, long before this thread, I posted up in the Team 8 thread that I had high hopes because we've got beans planted rather than corn at one of my favorite spots. Adding that the CRP was just recently cut down, it will keep the deer in the woods and increase my opportunity significantly!!!!

RE: Just Have To Say
 

You are also more likely to die from an unrestrained fall from a treestand than killed in an airplane crash.

If you're still singing that song about a cornfield and a baitpile being the same thing .. your still nuts! I don't care how hard you try and twist the moon into the sun to fit your reasoning you missed it bad on this one. The more you dig the more that the sides are falling in on you!

RE: Just Have To Say
 

blah, blah, blah, Bob. "Rhetoric" doth not = "fact". Your rhetoric is popular in most deer hunting circles.....but the FACT remains.....Corn and soy beans are not indigenous plants where you see them planted in fields. That makes them "artificial" to that area. Shelled corn doesn't grow out of the ground into a pile....so that makes it artificial, too.

Your artificial corn field might be bigger than the artiicial bait pile......but they're both what? YES!! Artificial!

Leave the cover aspect out of it. Leave the "patterning" thing out of it. Let's get down to basics. They are both an artificially introduced food source.

RE: Just Have To Say
 

Jeff, without these readily available food sources how many deer would you think there would be today? Are there more deer now or in the days of Daniel Boone? Even with habitat diminishing by the hour the deer herd countinues to grow.

An artificial food source (Bait)is something placed by someone for the benefit of attracting something else.

Corn, soy, apple orchards..whatever, were not put there to attract anything. they are a lively hood for someone. If you grow something to not harvest it and only attract game then yes, I'll buy it as artificial. A Food Plot for example.


I still have nothing against the practice of baiting if legal or food plots or what have you..but your logic and the "GMMAT spin" are what I take exception too!

That Oak tree your hunting under did someone plant it or did the acorn fall and naturally sprout?? I mean come on..:eek:

RE: Just Have To Say
 

Amen Bob!!!!!!!!! Well said.

RE: Just Have To Say
 

I am in the corn belt with few cattle being raised in my area anymore but I"ll gladly take clover or alfalfa anytime over a corn field for drawing deer in;).

RE: Just Have To Say
 

That's a fair definition, Bob....and we're just hung up on "intent", now. No....the FARMER didn't plant it to attract "somthing else".....but why is the hunter hunting it?;)

RE: Just Have To Say
 

For the same reasons you hunt a spot, there might be a trail there, tracks. This is getting ridiculous Jeff!!

RE: Just Have To Say
 

Schultzy....when someone disagrees with you....it's often FAR from "ridiculous". If ag fields couldn't be hunted.....I'd say they weren't technically "bait". GR8's already conceded that food plots "are".

So the "intent" for why the hunter is hunting the ARTIFICIAL stimulus is the key, right? WHY are you hunting near the ag fields?

RE: Just Have To Say
 

That's my take on it. I'm sure the farmer isn't planting his corn so I could have success hunting. In fact I've never got a phone call telling me he finished planting the corn for me the deer should be coming once it's up. And I've never called him to thank him for baiting for me. It's intended purpose is NOT to attract deer. Does it? Sure. A pile of corn in a specific place has one intention. To attract deer to that specific spot. I view a farmers corn field as taking advantage of what the land gives me. Same as acorns, water sources, apples, etc... If he decided not to plant the following year and it grew up into overgrown crud, I'm still hunting that land. I'll change my gameplan and figure out where the critters are.