RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

What don't you understand about it Tony?

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

BC your intellectual deficiency make it impossible you to comprehend reading at evena middle school level.

My point which I am typing very slowly so maybe even you will understand.
If you are so inclined to kill a fawn, as asinine as I find it ,knock your self out,but to get on an open forum in search for atta boys to condone your inability's to succeed at your chosen endeavorer's is just plane pathetic.

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

This is in reply to Buckmasters519 comment. Actualy shooting doe fawns is really not much differant than shooting adult does when your talking about the buck to doe ratio. In most cases you want to shoot the does anyway cause in most casesthere are too many of them. Besides how is shooting an adult doe that has ben bred and will be having little ones the next spring any different than shooting a doe fawn that might not come into season until the following year? Your still taking a doe that could produce buck fawns. I personly try to steer clear of shooting fawns but I dont have a problem with people that do. You critisize peope who do because you say a fawn isnt a challenge, it may be to someone.You also saythat it damages the deer herd. If your so wise on deer managment you know that in a perfect world you would have about a 1 to 1 ratio of bucks to does maybe 2 does to every buck and by taking one doe you are most likely taking out a doe and a buck that she would have had thenext year. With that being said itsnot throwing the herd out of balance at all. Maybe you should read up on deer managment a bit more, cause if shooting a doe fawn screws your deer herd up that much there is something going wrong with your managment practice.

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

I don't understand why the boy will kill a fawn when he doesn't want to, JUST to get the first one under his belt ..... now if he wanted to kill it, that's different, but if is just trying to get that 1st one out of the way ... that makes ZERO sense to me .

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

If i recall iu didnt say just shooting one fawn will be messing up the herd. i said over time. And i know it is good to shoot does because ther r so many. Some does become sterile at an older age and why shoot a fawn that will most likely be perfectly capable in a few years to reproduce.
I wasnt trying to critisize people if it came off that way im just saying that i dont shoot fawns becuase of the impact it can have and my knowledge might not seem very good to you but u r also in Illinois and the deer are different ther because of the different habitat and etc. Im only 17 but i have a really good friend who graduated from A&M with a degree in wildlife biology and works for the texas parks and wildlife and he backs me up 100%. So it may seem like i dont know antything but who r you to critisize me.

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

Hey Schultzy ....do you see where I'm coming from? ?

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

I agree Tony as well. I wasn't exactly sure what you meant in your other post. I understand ya now.;)

To answer the question on the thread I have no problems in shooting a doe fawn. I'll usually take a doe but I've been knowing to shoot a few doe fawns as well. No button bucks though.

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

I should just draw the line on posts like this since everyone breaks the final logic down to this.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .......................................


-------------------------------------------------------------------"if it is legal, even though I choose not to do it, you can if you want!" (Political Correctis Maximus)

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

No problem here with the fawn killing.

As far as the "first kill" theory,I am all for a hunter that WANTS to shoot the first deer that they see, buck, doe, unicorn, or otherwise.

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

It is ABSOLUTELY not political correctness ... it is allowing individuals be just that .... individual ..... now for this individual, my tolerance ends when laws are broken .... especially God's ...

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

Let me clarify on what my first kill theory is, I dont want a fawn to be the first thing that walks under my stand, but if that is what god wants me to take I will, I want a Big buck to walk under my stand first.

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

PT--I am ALL for allowing people to express themselves and living their own life. I however have an opinion on things and will speak them when I feel necessary, even though those opinions may go against the majority or even an established long standing law. In many instances I could care less about the "law". You know how many freaking police officers in my county alone drive drunk after parties and then on their weekends to work, target drinkers in bars as they exit at close of business? That is one very small observation in the whole grand scheme of things, but you get my point as to why I do not really care about certain things written on a piece of paper. I belive in natural human rights being given to us by a higher authority.

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

If I'm gonna pop a doe, I've said it before it's going to be a younger one. My definition of a youngerone is a 1.5 year old. The current years fawns are safe. Not do to any ethical higher ground, but because I have to bring it home to my wife and kids.

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

as do I, Brent .... but the Higher Authority commands us to obey the laws of man unless the conflict with God's laws .....and by doing so, we obey God

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

Bowtech, best of luck to you in your pursuits. Whatever animal you choose to unleash your first arrow on, I wish the arrow to be deadly and accurate.

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

I as well! Shoot straight!!:D

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

I understand your point PT, I really do. I work in the corrections field with youthful offenders so I understand and preach to these kids to follow the law on a daily basis.

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

Hmm, I highly disagree there Jim. It appears as always I am one step of ahead of you and you don't even know it. Why does the forum need to hear you say, "knock yourself out". Think about it? Is your opinion really that important?:D

Bottom line is,killing a fawndoesn't matter. As long as someone is legal, in the big picture, it doesn't matter. It doesn't put money in your pocket, or food in your stomach. Its very clear you do not understand that. You have a consistent trend of insecurity in life and on webpages. You yourself admitted several times you do not like talking to people but want to come to forums to talk. Thats rather strange. If someone doesn't do it your way or the way someone taught you, you jump them, and if anyone says anything back, oh well, knock yourself out.

I am too worried about my equipment, my shot, my deer, and my licence. You don't pay for any of ours on this webpage. Neither do I. But what you have trouble grasping is, ok you don't do it, fine say you don't do it, and let it be.

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

Its fairly simple PT, it builds confidense. Each shot a youngun takes, he learns off of that and another step to his goal.

You were a young hunter at one time. Surely, you sat and dreamed about taking a large 10pt or whatever, and most likely you rarely got it. You want to take the king of the woods, but you sometimes have to take what God gives you.

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

This post is an example of what gets folks banned here. [:@] Knock it off or take a time out.

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

Mark, my ONLY issue is with shooting something you don't want to shoot just to get one under your belt ..... That thought process is CRAZY to me! Shoot what you want to shoot ......

Bowtech 360 ....if all you really WANT to shoot is a big buck, then enjoy watching those other deer that come around you ... your chances for a big buck will increase dramatically if you wait ..... the "need" to get one under your belt is a falacy when it's not the real one you want ...

The reason I don't like this mentality is when I first started bowhunting i was told the same thing ...except for me it was any doe ... at the time, I didn't WANT to shoot a doe ..... I would let so many go .... then the one year I had one 12 yards away just standing there broadside .... I kept thinkin .."gotta get one under your belt" ... she wouldn't move .... so I pulled back my bow and shot her .....it was sooooooo anti-climatic as it wasn't what I was hunting ...... I felt unemotional about it ... almost bad .....

wait for the deer you want ......

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

I'll tell you why, Tony....

I've said it before.....you could build a Wal-Mart between "seeing/passing" on a deer and actually putting one on the ground. I waited and waited......"saw" and "passed".....and when the time came when I "thought" I was ready.....I found out I wasn't. There is NO substitute for putting a deer on the ground.....especially if you've never done it.

I'd advise anyone who's never shot a deer with their bow to take one at the earliest opportunity. Find out what it entails....before the one that you really want slips through your grasp becasue you were ill-prepared.

Around here....I have MORE respect for the masses (herd) than I do for one deer. If I shoot this deer in September....it's not eating food that another deer can eat, later. It's also a 100% guarantee that it won't produce more deer by being bred. Now how many mouths have I taken out of the equation?

Couldn't agree more with that phrase.;)

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

Maybe on your farm in Texas that's how it is but you should know that is probably worlds apart from where many of us hunt. On the farms I hunt in VA(the whole state for that matter) we are not killing enough does and need to kill more. It doesn't matter if they are 9 months or 9 years to me, I do not discriminate. If you practice deer management "to the fullest" like you say you might want to go to the QDMA website and read up because your logic is flawed here:

Mainly that's flawedbecause most of usalready have buck to doe ratios that are out of whack and the only way to better them is to kill 3-5 does for every buck(for multiple seasons) depending on your actual buck to doeratio. Antlerless harvest is one of the main principles of QDMA so unless you have got a low(near even)ratio of bucks to does you should be killing more does than bucks each season.

As far as does being sterile when they get older like you stated inthe post above, I can't even fathom that, not saying it's not true because I'm sure it is(somewhere) but I've never evenseen any does pushing 8,9, or 10 years old(we actually hunt them here in VA). And for the recorddoe fawns are often capable of breeding in their first year so I'm not sure why you think it takes them a few years to reproduce.

But let's be honest here it's not really about the herd and the doe numbers because all of that was pretty much off this is the real reason you don't like killing the little ones..........

Next time you can probably just say that.;)

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

NEW....

Agreed on all points...and I'll add.....

I don't even like waiting to kill them, really (read ANY doe). EVERY day that animal is alive.....it's eating (on average) 4 lbs of food. The quicker I take it out.....the more food that's left available for the rest of the herd (speaking STRICTLY for the woods "I" hunt). And again......if I choose to let her walk....not only is she possibly going to reproduce, but she stands a 50% chance of producing another doe fawn. I can't help but recall the Breck commercial where "and they'll tell two friends....and they'll tell two friends" makes me shudder (in terms of the breeding capabilities of these animals).

I have no problems with those who choose NOT to take these animals.....but the people who don't need to understand 2 things:

1. it's perfectly legal to kill them for most of us.

&

2. There's a legitimate reason why we take these age class deer....and we typically have bag limits/tags that refelect this.

I've yet to see a man that shoots any of these deer in numbers come into a hunting forum and tout himself as a prolific hunter for doing so. If a man is proud of ANY deer killed, though....I'll congratulate him.

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

AMEN! One last thought, no amount of self righteous indignation on someone Else's part is going to influence in any way how i conduct myself in the Whitetail woods. ;)

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

Im genuinely sorry for my pointless critisizim. Im sorry to those i offended. And i didnt really mean in a few years i was just trying to make a point. And a lot of adult does do become steril.
But please forgive me i should have just said my opinion instead of tryin to get scientifcal lol. I was wrong to critisize your hunting methods compared to mine. Im sorry please forgive my blatent ignorance.

Thanks
Colten

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

MAtt (Rick James) also brought up an interesting point, yesterday, in another discussion.

He (and I) subscribe to the notion that when we take a deer out of our herd......we make room for (in that specific area) another deer to possibly move in and take its place (if the land will carry it).

We stand a 50% chance of that deer being a buck.....AND....we know there's one less doe.

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

Colten

It truly is all good, don't even worry about it. I don't think you really offended anyone. Sometimes on these type forums it is easy to forget you are communicating with people all over the country/world and it is hard to imagine how different hunting can be from region to region or from person to person for that matter. You are a young guy and I wasn't trying to be too harsh or anyting all I can say is stick around the forums, there is a lot to learn on here for all of us, most of the time.;)


P.S. Did you say scientifical?? :D

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

I would advise against your advice ;).... you haven't cleared it up for me .. your reason makes no sense .... I guess a lesser fawn can be the sacrificial lamb so he can be "ready" when the one he wants comes by :eek: there is no respect for the animal or the sport with that mentality

Like I said, if the kid WANTS to take a fawn for his first ..... GO FOR IT! I'll hoop and hollar with him!!!

To take it to put the initial notch in your belt is disgusting to me ....

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

Exactly;)

What you or anyone else thinks about why "I" or anyone else takes a legal deer.....interests me not.

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

Who asked YOU what interests you? Yet you offer up your opinions more than anyone else on this site ....

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

No one did, Tony. I answered your question. You asked (in an interrogative form...)...

I answered...."Exactly" (read - YES).

I then added that "I" OR ANYONE ELSE shouldn't need to worry about what anyone else thinks about why we take a legal deer.

Kinda goes back to the "shoot what you want" thing, doesn't it?;)

The deer (fawn) in question is taken legally. It serves a purpose.

I would NEVER, EVER be a proponent of someone taking a deer they would , at the time, or subsequnetly "regret" taking. But the deer, as I said, would serve a purpose. It would also be taken legally.

What the problem with this scenario?

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

Tony has no problem with anyone shooting a fawn. What ticks him off is someone taking one for the wrong reasons, I agree with the preacher!!! Tony could care less if it wasn't a fawn. The point he is making is shoot what makes you happy, not what gets you over the hump. Some people really over analyze stuff on here. Unbelievable!

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

You know Tony that opinions that differ are far from welcome here. ;)
To some the act of deer hunting is a treasured way to enjoy what the wooded world has to offer,sights ,sounds and even smells that can't be experienced any other way. The rewards make the sacrifices seem trivial.The memories made will last a life time,and can be shared with like minded folks around camp fires for generation.
To others it is a zero sum balance that comes for being blinded to all but the act of killing.
All to many fail to see the forest for the trees.:eek:

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

This thread calls for some make up sex.

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

To which PT will readily admit that he ENJOYS the "killing" aspect of the "hunt". I actually don't. It's an integral part of the hunt, yes. Do I "enjoy" it? Nope.

I think you all need to read this, again.;)

If a man can take a deer....with no regrets.....stack 'em up, brother.;) There's no such thing in taking one for the wrong reason.....if the shooter has no regrets when he's finished. He needs to please/appease/answer to NO ONE except himself.

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

When I was a young hunter there was nothing to hunt for but the pure enjoyment of being around family ,great friends and nature.
Now these young guys have E.A.B., A.R. and QDMA to contend with.The pressure to succeed must seem over whelming. We have one faction that believes if a deer is breathing airit shouldn't be if you can help it.And another group that believes if a deer hasn't seen three super bowl games he can't possibly be ready to die.[:-]

My first deer was a small four point and I remember it like it was yesterday,and all I am saying that first deer is a very important step in the making of a hunter,please take your time and measure your steps wisely.

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

I gave you a personal example of the first deer I shot .......... i regretted it ... it was because I listened to others ..... when a kid comes on here and says he doesn't want his 1st deer to be a fawn and there are guys telling him he should shoot one anyway for the experience .... it says alot about what hunting is to those guys ...[&o]

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

HIS words. Sounds like he's made his decision.

My advice (cited at least 3 times).

No conflict.

I gave you my personal experience, too. I BLEW the chance at what I wanted to be my first....because I was ill-equipped to handle what the experience entailed. Do I wish I'd taken one, earlier (regret NOT doing so)? Yep.

You canespouse all the "killer"....."don't love the woods" rhetoric you want. If a man can take a deer and have no regrets.....it's "personal" and what we "feel" about his decision is irrelevant. So....coming full circle....if he has no qualms in his first being a fawn.....my suggestion is for him to killthe first deer that giveshim an ethicalshot opportunity. I'm not ashamed of that advice. I wish someone hadgivenit to me.

And BTW....I've NEVER regretted killing one. I have regretted NOT killing one.

RE: Taking a fawn for the freezer?
 

Jeff .... deer hunting to you is totally different than it is to me ...

but you possibly did when you justified another's response to ,"get one under the belt" no matter what it is ...

so a man can kill deer and let them rot, and that wouldn't be wrong in your opinion? Or he could kill them and let them sit in his freezer until he throws them out??? How about the guy that hunts to brag to everyone else what he's killed??
There IS such a thing as "the wrong reason"