Are we going about this all wrong?
 

Are we going about this all wrong?

Seems like you can ask 100 hunters/land stewards “what are they doing to reinforce the deer population on their properties or....make their properties hold more deer”, and I’m betting 90%+ would mention supplemental feeding, food plots, mineral sites, etc… If our goal is (really) to hold more deer on the properties we hunt, might we be a little disingenuous in our claims?

Let’s look at a day in the life of your average whitetail deer:

12:01 AM Out to dinner or near the restaurant (food source)
6:12 AM – On my way home to bed
6:39 AM – Stopped to browse at a staging area
6:48 AM – Bedded for the day
10:44 AM – Out of bed to browse and grab a quick drink
10:58 AM – Moved 125yds….and back to bed
4:19 PM – Up again to browse
4:33 PM – Back to original bed for the day
6:05PM – Up from bed to feed/water for the evening
7:18 PM – Arrive at destination food source
*Continue this basic pattern until I die (and of course make time for lovin’ when appropriate)

What’s the one thing that stands out in this deer’s day, though…..MOST? Right….you got it…..Bedding. Why aren’t more of us concerned with providing better/more[/b] bedding habitat? I’ve got three theories:


Don’t care
Don’t know how or don’t understand it
Thinks providing supplemental feeding; food plots; mineral sites, etc… provides them a BETTER (w/ sometimes even less work) chance of killing more and better deer.[/ol]

So….are the deer you’re hunting bedding ON the property you hunt? Are they JUST feeding, there? Are they JUST using your land as a travel route between the two?

I’m betting you could (with permission, of course) create A [/b]½ acre bedding area, with one man and a chainsaw, in less than ½ day. What you’d be providing in browse potential and cover might make the deer you’re hunting wanna stick around the land you’re hunting, more. It looks to me like they spend an inordinate amount of their time bedding, anyways. Why not take advantage of that AND maybe enhance your hunting at the same time?

Anybody do things like this? I’d love to hear how it’s worked out….before I approach my landowners.

What got me to thinking about this wasn’t the land I currently hunt. They have 230 acres of sanctuary they can and do bed in, there. The new land I’ll be hunting is 150 acres of land they use as a travel route…..and may “occasionally” bed, there. But there are no prime bedding spots on that property….and I’d like to change that.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

Jeff, I think you are absolutely, 100% correct. How's the old saying go? "hunt the beds, hang the heads"......I've read several articles concerning this as well.

Personally, I feel the reason the food plots and feeding get so much "press time" is the money. Let's face it, all that's really required to make a bedding area is a chain saw. Pretty simple. Too many folks stand to lose too much money if that were the emphasis rather than feed.

We all know the food plot industry is HUGE business. 4 wheelers, a disc to pull behind them, seeders, seed, fertilizer, soil samples.....the list goes on. Look at how many companies are busting into the food plot arena. It's no wonder why just 1 guy w/ a chain saw doesn't get any props.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

Interesting question, but the thing is whitetails can bed anywhere. Fencerows, brushpiles, dry ditches, middle of a field, etc. Food source is #1, creating bedding areas rank much lower IMO.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

mobow, respectfully as I stated in my first post whitetails will bed anywhere and if pressed will bed down in the most unusual places. Creating a bedding area ranks low on my list of priorties of keeping deer on and near my hunting area.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

Cougar, I know you live in the same general area I do and I agree. Deer can and will bed any where. Actually some of the biggest Bucks I have seen bed in the strangest places.

Maybe that's what keeps them alive;)

Dan

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

For agricultural areas I couldn't disagree more (especially after harvest). For prairies or parts of the country where food sources are scarce I would completely agree.

GMMAT,
I have added 13.5 acres of bedding areas since I bought my farm last year. I plan on adding another 6.5 over the next couple of years. I also believe, and have for quite some time, that in an agricultural area like mine cover is the #1 criteria for having, holding, "saving" deer. Before I added bedding, we had approximately 15 acres (+/-) on the other 2 family farms that is sanctuary/bedding. After all this we still have over 60 acres in crops and 8 in alfalfa. So, they have enough food;)

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

And I don't disagree. But, if we can produce an appealing bedding area, haven't we helped put the odds in our favor again? In a 24 hour day, how many hours of that would you suspect are spent in a bedding area? 75? And, if we can produce a really good DOE bedding area......and strategically place stands downwind of that.....would that be an awesome place to hunt come the rut? I don't know for sure, but it seems that it would.

I definetly agree that feeding areas will certainly congregate the deer to a certain place. I've hunted over food plots, and they're sweet places to be for sure. My only point was, the main reason bedding doesn't get the attention is because of the money. Today's culture is all about self preservation, and increasing the sale. In short, MAKE MORE MONEY. But that's a discussion for a different day. I digress. :D

Edit: WOW! I just read this after I posted it, and the tone of that did NOT come across the way I wanted it to. I'm questioning in an effort to learn, not questioning you, as it were. If that makes sense.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

I assume you meant 75%, Mo.....lol;)

I understand....and huntingson's "plan" is what I'm after. I'm "assuming" you leave thes areas as sanctuaries.....and hunt close to them VERY sparingly. That's what I'm trying to look at. I've got some serious potential to add some bedding areas about 3/4mi. from some ag crops and about .3mi from an acorn ridge.

I'm gonna give it a whirl with my landowner......and see how it's received. With our deer pops, here......I could create 2 of these and hold a LOT of deer in them. So even when they DO NOT feed ON the properties I'm hunting (which is only when the mast crops are producing), we can still hold deer ON the property.....and not just have them use it as a travel route.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

I didn't think numbers of Deer was a problem on your properties? You just had all does and very few Bucks;)

Dan

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

I don’t think bedding areas have as much of a drawing effect as food does. My main property is mostly bedding areas. They are tough to hunt, and you have to be careful. All the agriculture is a good ½ mile away, most even more than that. AND there are bedding areas that are just as secure as mine, much closer to the crops. I have some acorns on my spot, but they are immersed in the bedding areas except for one stand. If I had more food readily available, my hunting spot would be a paradise.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

Jeff, very interesting question andi think your onto something here. My question for you is, if you are allowed to make these bedding areas, how do you plan on going about it? Are you simply going to cut down some trees and leave them where they lay or are you going to try to get them to fall in a tight area? I have a 50 acre piece of land that i own that this could be perfect for. Interested in any ideas in how to make it a prime bedding area as well.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

Not my claim. But if you have NO deer bedding on your property....(due to no preferred bedding habitat).....how can providing said be a BAD thing?

On this property.....I would say that yours and it are equal. So....why not tryo to provide them with bedding area ON this property? You know.......make your property more coducive to holding more deer.

YOUR property, Rybo......it sounds as though it isn't necessary. You HAVE bedding areas. That wasn't the focus of my post.

Well I'm certianly gonna do some research......and if I had to do it now.....I'd make my select cuts on select TYPE trees.....and stagger the height of the cuts.....from say 1' to 6'.....felling the trees, still attached to the tree trunk. I'd have to think the trees might still live for a while, this way.....and still provide limb growth (to an extent) and browse for the deer. But yeah.....felling them in a prescribed area (tight) would be my goal. Maybe 1/2 acre areas.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

I believe this very question was addressed by the Drurys in their video last year called Spot On. Basically what they said was in areas with vast areas of food sources (the Midwest) creating attractive bedding areas near those food source can help keep deer not only where you want them, but moving in a direction beneficial to you for hunting. The problem with this is that the amount of land they have accessible to them for doing this is in the 1000s of acres and not practical for the everyday hunter.

I think the idea has merit, but for the parcels I hunt I'll have to stick to the natural bedding areas and setting up to catch the deer coming and going from them.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

Equally important as bedding areas, are to leave these areas alone as in sanctuary, never go in there. Youcan fell some trees tight, preferably in a thick and swampy area, maybe transplant some fast-growing cover brush, but once set up and working ,DO NOT ENTER the area! But you have to have a large enough parcel. Remeber also, that if you blow it in the bedding area the game is over. I personally would prefer staging areas near food.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

BRy.....let's take my real-life scenario I have as the "example".

150 acres of mostly hardwoods and evergreens. No "attractive" bedding areas......just years and years of overgrowth (trees). The canopy is full......but the undergrowth is nearly non-existant.

Ag fields abound on the outskirts.

HOW could providing a few 1/2 acre bedding areas hurt?

BINGO!

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

Jeff, I think it can vary quite a bit due to location. Here we have lots of agriculture, and lots of pasture/bedding areas interspersed together. One or the other may be locally abundant, just depending what part of the county you are in. The trick in my mind is to find which part you are lacking or are limited by and try to supplment that portion. It could also be water, or staging areas, or some other factor.

Over on the QDMA forums a while back I was reading an article on creating bedding areas that was very interesting. Ed Spinnazola also has a section in his book "Ultimate Food Plots" that deals with some seeding mixes to put down in these bedding areas. His theories on that are very interesting to say the least. I have really been wanting to try it but have been limited on time due to a new member in the family.

Just think of it as plugging the lowest hole in the bucket. A hole near the top will not let as much water drain out as one in the bottom. Whatever is lacking on your particular property is what you need to be focusing on. Same with antle size on bucks. First they must grow up. second they must have nutrition, and a far distant third is genetics.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

I'd love to hear my homeboy Dan (130Woodman's) take on this. He's a guy who is successfully growing and holding big deer on a property that had NO history of growing/holding big deer before he got there.

Cutting timber and creating bedding areas, at least from what I gather in talking to him, seems to be a very integral part of what he's doing.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

I don't think it can hurt at all if it is practical and can be done. Do you think it would be better to provide a few 1/2 acre bedding areas or one larger one that is completely off limits?

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

Jeff, creating bedding areas just maybe the key to getting big bucks on your property.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

Excellent question......and I honestly don't know.

What I'd theorize is........creating a few smaller areas "might" attract (strategically placed) bucks to utilize one of them. Creating one, large area would "seem" to benefit MORE deer.....and that (here) means DOES.

I honestly don't know, though. I could actually hurt myself (for buck hunting purposes) by doing this....by introducing more does.

Again....I haven't researched it.....yet.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

I gotcha Jeff. I kind of got wrapped up in addressing several posts at once.
But yes, I think whatever a person can do to their property to provide food and shelter, just makes sense. If you have one and not the other, you are probably better off adding the one you are missing…..
However, in the oddball situation where one has neither but the spot is a dynamite travel corridor, THAT may merit leaving it as is, to make entry & exit while hunting easier, and with less impact (deer spooking)

And another thing regarding my spot….I wish I had less bedding areas. There are too few areas that I can get into without the increased potential of spooking a deer out. Too much of a good thing I guess.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

I guess what I am saying is that the closer yoiu can get to meeting all of a whitetails needs on a certain property, the more luck you will have holding them. Ag fields are great for nutrition, but these are destination feeding areas that are mainly visited after dark. This does not do you much good on mature bucks, EXCEPT knowing what direction theymight be traveling. You need bedding areas, staging areas, and maybe some small hunting food plots they can browse in on the way to their destination plots. Try and manage the bucks daylight time, that is whats important to the hunter.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

ABSOLUTEY valid points. In reality.....when I say I "wish" I could hunt them in the parks system (the 230 acres I often elude to).....it's probably best that I can't.;)

Crittr:

I look at hunting as staging (the hunter) between points of interest. If we can manipulate these points (add bedding areas, food plots, etc...)....we BETTER know where to stage. Right now....they use this area (parts of it) as a travel corridor. But the bedding areas they're traveling from.....are a good ways off. So....their travel routes to these spots is sporadic. By providing them with a known point......and knowing what that next point is.....we can know, better, wehre to stage to kill them.

It works like that in my head:D

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

In your situation jeff, i think that you might want to create a few smaller bedding areas as opposed to one larger one. My reasoning is i know that you are targeting mature bucks, not just any buck. Im no expert, but i would think that one mature buck would likely not allow any other mature animals bed in "his" bedding area. My setting up a few bedding areas, perhaps you could entice a couple of mature bucks to set up shop in your are. Just a thought.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

nj....don't give me too much credit. To this point....I've been an "opportunist". What you mention is what I'd LIKE to be able to do. Unchartered waters, though.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

That's a situation I see a lot around here. We have a lot of grapevine and other tangles that grow up the trees that create dense cover. Eventually what happens is these vines will bring down some of the canopy which opens the door to the multiflora rose and other thick underbrush. Obviously these areas are great bedding area and they seem to be everywhere. There is one spot that I have that has a bunch of soybean fields surrounded on all sides by this cover. So I have to determine from the wind where I think the deer will be bedded and hope that I'm right to hunt it, because since the whole area is a potential bedding area I could kick up deer no matter how I got in.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

Folks seem to be missing one point. In some areas, everyone seems to be working the usual food plots, feeders, minerals, etc. to attract and hold deer. So, in some cases you are actually competing with neighboring folks for deer. One would think that even if you place a priority on the usual strategies, working the bedding angle as well might give you an edge up on the other folks in the area.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

First of all, I don't have time to read the whole thread right now, but did read about the first half of the first page.

I agree 100% with your first post Jeff. This is something we focused on heavily with our property. We already had outstanding bedding areas that were used with frequency, but in my opinion you can increase the carrying capacity by providing that cover. This is what we did. When we had the logging project done on the property, we had a ton of the tree tops moved onto a specific sidehill. The deer now bed there EVERY day like clockwork. Now we have 6 core bedding areas on the property in total, that you can see deer in on any given day. The food plot work we have done has been good because in my opinion we have reduced the deers core area size, they now don't need to roam as far for good food sources. The other thing we have done is make certain bedding areas much more attractive and used with much higher frequency because of placement of the food plots. I have one bedding area that is now probably my most consistent producer of deer sightings that before the plots rarely had deer. Now they are in there every day........because there is food less than 100 yards from it and they don't get pressured on the food source or in the bedding area.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

Absolutely Jeff, I agree. I have a place I hunt, a very samll place, maybe 5 acres. But it is a very good funnel. 160 acres of irrigated alfalfa to the east, 300 acres of wheat to the west, bedding areas to the south. It is just a point of trees that extends into these fields from the bedding areas. It is just a travel corridor, or used to be. Before I added some small hunting plots in it, with a mineral station, and some manipulation of the actual travel lanes with a chain saw. Next year I am putting in a guzzler to provide some water.

It has changed from just a travel corridor into an area they are comfortable in at any hour of the day. Deer will move in there all day long due to the heavy cover and proximity to the bedding areas (which are not on my property, and hunted by someone else). I do not have room to put bedding areas in there, I have just tweaked things to make it a more attractive place for the deer.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

Out of all the land that I presently hunt (100 acres), I have at any given time a bedding area within 50 to 100yds of all of my stands. I refuse to hunt an area that does not provide cover for deer. I believe this is the biggest mistake a hunter can make, that is hunting bucks. If they do not have adequate bedding "and" travel cover, they will not be seen as often. Just my experience.

Don't forget though, if a deer has more bedding in your area and less food, chances are, they will travel away from your land to eat, and therefore probably find bedding in that area as well. There definately has to be an equal, or almost equal amount for holding deer to your property.Just an observation.

LT

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

Yup, that one of the needs of proper land management.... deer need "Cover". A deer can and will vary well bed on a ridge top where he can see and hear any trouble coming.... but they do need some hideouts that are thick to really hide. Deer will travel a distance for food. If they have to travel a bit of a ways for cover they will do that too. It depends on the time of year. Right now they'll use a corn field or bean field. They don't need a big space. They'll bed in cattails, grown up grass and brush, just about anywhere. I don't think you necessarily have to make such an area but select one thats close to what they need and stay out of it. If you keep walking in they'll move to some place new, like your neighbors land. Nothing wrong with deer bedding across the fence line and coming to your side to eat.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

I am converting my 5 acres of CRP(fescue and orchard grass) into Native Warm Season Grasses next spring. Thats adding some bedding area.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

The farm that I hunt has easily 100 acres of 6 foot tall switch grass. It didnt use to have that and we never saw big deer. For the past couple years the deer have been getting bigger and bigger... The corn/beans have ALWAYS been there.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

..

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

Could somebody please address the HOW?

We need a separate thread about how to create bedding areas. What makes a good bedding area? Where should it be located? How big should it be? What kind of cover do you need? All that good stuff....

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

Without a doubt I think we all know how important a bedding area is, but whats more important is to have a balance of bedding/feeding areas if your land can accomodate. Many folks have very small parcels that they own or can hunt <20 acres. In this case I think it is more important to provide the feeding areas, because it would be very difficult to provide bedding areas on that 20 and also succesfully hunt that 20 without spooking deer too often. Of course alot depends on land placement, terrain etc.

What I have seen as a problem with many people when they aquire a piece of property is that they are just to excited and dive right in. Say you aquire 100 acres, I've seen people just dive right in and make a whole bunch of bedding areas in it. Sure thats great for a few years but then just like that everything is maturing at the same rate. As hard as it is, you're so much better off selectively cutting different areas every year as you will create a good succesion of growth in your forest and give deer a wide variety of habitat. Rarely do deer choose one habitat to live in, they love edges, transitions, etc. By selectively cutting different areas every year, you create this for them, rather than having a forest of old growth and new and thats it.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

Jeff, I'm not sure how big of a tract you are hunting. but if I remember correctly from last year,IMO your main goal needs to be herd management right now. You can have all the prime bedding area in the whole county, but the facts are with an overpopulation of DOES you will rarely see the big bucks that you want.Especially with too many does and a large sanctuary that you don't hunt, the bucks will have no reason to be on the move. Not to say that bedding areas aren't important because they are vital in a well managed operation.Again I guess it depends on how much land you are attempting to manage. But to answer your original question on why land stewards rarely speak about how to increase the numbers in the deer herd, in my experience (in the south), not too many people have the need to carry more deer, or hold more deer on their property. The numbers are usually either at full carrying capacity or above. most owners goal is to improve the quality of what they have.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

Without reading the entire thread, I'll give this tidbit of personal experience from a Texas ranch.

A buddy of mine had a great ranch in West Texas. It was only about 500 acres and a small creek flowed a 1/4 mile off his property. This area because it was the only location around that had any ttype of cover than mesquite thickets was the primary bedding area. We had to catch the deer coming through his mesquite thickets to eat in the crop fields on his property, this was very difficult.

So, long story short... we "created" a bedding area. With the use of a bull dozer and chain saws, we cut a mesquite about 3/4 the way through and push it over.We did this in an area that was around the only other water source than the creek, if you can imagine a C shape around a pond, this is what it looked like. It was only about 75 yards deep and the total length of the C, was about 200 yards. This area grew up extremely thick in a couple of years and now beds a lot of deer. There are still deer that bed at the creek, but this is a property that never "held" deer and it does now.

Granted, this didn't increase the population, but it did increase the number of deer that stayed on the property.

RE: Are we going about this all wrong?
 

Here's a picture of my land.
58 acres with the white line showing the boundaries.
The red rectangle is bedding area. NO ONE GOES IN THERE!It consists of cut tree tops, blue stem grass and small cedar trees. It's 6-8 acres.
The green squares are my stand locations.
The food plots are labled: alfalfa to the northeast (my neighbor)
beans to the southwest (my other neighbor)
my two food plots of standing corn and buck forage oats
It's a nice setup.