2008 Rut Calendar
07-22-2008, 06:42 PM
#42
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
RE: 2008 Rut Calendar
I'm off on vacation Nov 1st through the 16th. I'll be in PA the first week of Nov and IL the second week of Nov. I'm hoping I'm done on a giant 2 antlered buck in PA before that.
07-22-2008, 09:42 PM
#45
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,716
RE: 2008 Rut Calendar
ORIGINAL: dukemichaels
People who know me on a first name basis know my dislike of Alsheimer.. it's not that I don't think he's a brilliant biologist.. but I think he tries to relate too much scientific info. into the most basic of mother nature's rule.. Only the strong survive.
Alsheimer has always been like Hemingway for me.. often long winded and boring in description. And I love Hemingway.. but he talks to much when he writes... if that makes sense.
I have tried for years to come up with some correllation between the second full moon and the rut. I have found nothing.
I do believe lunar periods do and can predict (for the most part) game movement tables.. but I'm a firm believer that if your lands usually see the best activity on November 10th.. they will continue to do so every November 10th for every year that follows. (or right around that date).
As for Alsheimer. A scientist can't see mother nature's plan.. so they often look at her like she's a mathematical equation ripe for solving. It's not.
The purpose of breeding in autumn for the whitetail is as simple as survival. The doe's must be bred to ensure the fawn survive the next winter.. there first and second most vulnerable time period.
Photoperiodism is likely the main cause of doe's going into estrous. We know already it is for the bucks testosterone levels.
So.. basically IMO if you see the most activity around a certain week of the year.. you will likely be best to hunt that same period of time the following year.. and so on and so on.
People who know me on a first name basis know my dislike of Alsheimer.. it's not that I don't think he's a brilliant biologist.. but I think he tries to relate too much scientific info. into the most basic of mother nature's rule.. Only the strong survive.
Alsheimer has always been like Hemingway for me.. often long winded and boring in description. And I love Hemingway.. but he talks to much when he writes... if that makes sense.
I have tried for years to come up with some correllation between the second full moon and the rut. I have found nothing.
I do believe lunar periods do and can predict (for the most part) game movement tables.. but I'm a firm believer that if your lands usually see the best activity on November 10th.. they will continue to do so every November 10th for every year that follows. (or right around that date).
As for Alsheimer. A scientist can't see mother nature's plan.. so they often look at her like she's a mathematical equation ripe for solving. It's not.
The purpose of breeding in autumn for the whitetail is as simple as survival. The doe's must be bred to ensure the fawn survive the next winter.. there first and second most vulnerable time period.
Photoperiodism is likely the main cause of doe's going into estrous. We know already it is for the bucks testosterone levels.
So.. basically IMO if you see the most activity around a certain week of the year.. you will likely be best to hunt that same period of time the following year.. and so on and so on.
60% of the time, it works every time
There may be a correlation between lunar overhead and underfoot periods for daily activity - but I think Chuck is totally grasping at straws with this "rutting moon" theory. I dunno if he really buys it, or if he's just trying to hawk books and magazines.
I've sat here and googled for a solid hour, and can't find any evidence to support his claim that the peroneal gland has any special sensitivity to moonlight. On the other hand, everyone seems to agree that it senses changes in the photoperiod. So, just taking everything at face value . . . you've really gotta wonder where he's getting that idea.
So I have to agree - Alsheimer seems to be turning a molehill into a mountain, because he wants to believe that there is a lunar link to breeding activity, working backward to find some repeatable lunar event that falls within the bounds of the breeding cycle. Counting 2 full moons after the Autumnal Equinox will always get you in the ballpark. Chuck is no dummy.
If historyis any indicator of the future, it seems like the seek/chase phases invariably come around the same time every year, for any given area. Thewriting on the wall seems to suggest simple photoperiodism. Sometimes the simplest answer is the right answer. This, IMO, is one of those times.
07-22-2008, 10:14 PM
#46
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ND
Posts: 1,627
RE: 2008 Rut Calendar
ORIGINAL: quiksilver
Duke - I think you're dead-on. If you look at when the "rutting moon" falls - it will invariably come sometime between late October and late November. So, no matter when it hits, it's always gonna wind up beingreasonably close to the actual rutting activity - within a couple weeks. Sometimes, the "Rutting Moon" falls right in the first half of November - in which case his "theory" would seem to be supported by real-world results, and he looks like a genius. Ifthe "rut moon," however, comesearly or late, he simply points to high daytime temps or hunting pressureas "rut suppressors" which disruptedthescheduledbreeding activity.So, with thesebuilt-in assurances,he's able to come up with a reason why he's right every time. Kinda like Sex Panther.
60% of the time, it works every time
There may be a correlation between lunar overhead and underfoot periods for daily activity - but I think Chuck is totally grasping at straws with this "rutting moon" theory. I dunno if he really buys it, or if he's just trying to hawk books and magazines.
I've sat here and googled for a solid hour, and can't find any evidence to support his claim that the peroneal gland has any special sensitivity to moonlight. On the other hand, everyone seems to agree that it senses changes in the photoperiod. So, just taking everything at face value . . . you've really gotta wonder where he's getting that idea.
So I have to agree - Alsheimer seems to be turning a molehill into a mountain, because he wants to believe that there is a lunar link to breeding activity, working backward to find some repeatable lunar event that falls within the bounds of the breeding cycle. Counting 2 full moons after the Autumnal Equinox will always get you in the ballpark. Chuck is no dummy.
If historyis any indicator of the future, it seems like the seek/chase phases invariably come around the same time every year, for any given area. Thewriting on the wall seems to suggest simple photoperiodism. Sometimes the simplest answer is the right answer. This, IMO, is one of those times.
ORIGINAL: dukemichaels
People who know me on a first name basis know my dislike of Alsheimer.. it's not that I don't think he's a brilliant biologist.. but I think he tries to relate too much scientific info. into the most basic of mother nature's rule.. Only the strong survive.
Alsheimer has always been like Hemingway for me.. often long winded and boring in description. And I love Hemingway.. but he talks to much when he writes... if that makes sense.
I have tried for years to come up with some correllation between the second full moon and the rut. I have found nothing.
I do believe lunar periods do and can predict (for the most part) game movement tables.. but I'm a firm believer that if your lands usually see the best activity on November 10th.. they will continue to do so every November 10th for every year that follows. (or right around that date).
As for Alsheimer. A scientist can't see mother nature's plan.. so they often look at her like she's a mathematical equation ripe for solving. It's not.
The purpose of breeding in autumn for the whitetail is as simple as survival. The doe's must be bred to ensure the fawn survive the next winter.. there first and second most vulnerable time period.
Photoperiodism is likely the main cause of doe's going into estrous. We know already it is for the bucks testosterone levels.
So.. basically IMO if you see the most activity around a certain week of the year.. you will likely be best to hunt that same period of time the following year.. and so on and so on.
People who know me on a first name basis know my dislike of Alsheimer.. it's not that I don't think he's a brilliant biologist.. but I think he tries to relate too much scientific info. into the most basic of mother nature's rule.. Only the strong survive.
Alsheimer has always been like Hemingway for me.. often long winded and boring in description. And I love Hemingway.. but he talks to much when he writes... if that makes sense.
I have tried for years to come up with some correllation between the second full moon and the rut. I have found nothing.
I do believe lunar periods do and can predict (for the most part) game movement tables.. but I'm a firm believer that if your lands usually see the best activity on November 10th.. they will continue to do so every November 10th for every year that follows. (or right around that date).
As for Alsheimer. A scientist can't see mother nature's plan.. so they often look at her like she's a mathematical equation ripe for solving. It's not.
The purpose of breeding in autumn for the whitetail is as simple as survival. The doe's must be bred to ensure the fawn survive the next winter.. there first and second most vulnerable time period.
Photoperiodism is likely the main cause of doe's going into estrous. We know already it is for the bucks testosterone levels.
So.. basically IMO if you see the most activity around a certain week of the year.. you will likely be best to hunt that same period of time the following year.. and so on and so on.
60% of the time, it works every time
There may be a correlation between lunar overhead and underfoot periods for daily activity - but I think Chuck is totally grasping at straws with this "rutting moon" theory. I dunno if he really buys it, or if he's just trying to hawk books and magazines.
I've sat here and googled for a solid hour, and can't find any evidence to support his claim that the peroneal gland has any special sensitivity to moonlight. On the other hand, everyone seems to agree that it senses changes in the photoperiod. So, just taking everything at face value . . . you've really gotta wonder where he's getting that idea.
So I have to agree - Alsheimer seems to be turning a molehill into a mountain, because he wants to believe that there is a lunar link to breeding activity, working backward to find some repeatable lunar event that falls within the bounds of the breeding cycle. Counting 2 full moons after the Autumnal Equinox will always get you in the ballpark. Chuck is no dummy.
If historyis any indicator of the future, it seems like the seek/chase phases invariably come around the same time every year, for any given area. Thewriting on the wall seems to suggest simple photoperiodism. Sometimes the simplest answer is the right answer. This, IMO, is one of those times.
The evidence is right in front of your nose. If Charles is right... you would have does going into heat in JULY with all theSPOT LIGHTINGyou guys do at night!!! It is probably muchdarker on a full moon then an average night ofspot lighting the way you talk. [8D] [8D]
Tim
07-22-2008, 10:49 PM
#47
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,068
RE: 2008 Rut Calendar
I bought a 2008 King of Bucks calendar back in November of '07 from bass pro shop.Ithas a whitetail deer activity index that was based off of "hundreds of daylight deer sightings of 100% free-ranging animals." I used it a little last season as it had Nov and Dec of 07 on it also. Most activity is projected during weeks of first and last quarter moons. All sightings during weeks of full moons project morning activity, some high and some average, while sightings during a last quarter show high mid-day activity. I love hunting mid to late morning when most everybody packs up and heads out. Had a lot of luck around 10-12 or so.
I know most of you know a lot about hunting moon phases, probably more than I do, but I'll put my findings up in dummy terms for beginners or those wanting to tryusing this as a sort of guidelineduring the upcoming season. Of course location, weather, and most importantly, hunting pressure all affect deer movement. This is just what the calendar shows, I'll probably base my hunting off of it somewhat again this season.
October 5-9, first quarter, shows all RED, highest activity level. Doesn't specify time of day.
Oct 14-18, full, shows low to medium activity in the mornings.
Oct 19-24, last quarter, shows high to highest activity, mid-day.
The last week of October doesn't look too promising, but I'm sure I'll be in the woods somewhere.
Nov 2-9, 1st 1/4, shows again, high to highest activity levels. I'll be huntin 7th and 8th, fri and sat, maybe a weekday if I can afford it.
Nov 11-16, full phase, med to low activity, morning again
Nov 17-22, last 1/4, high to highest at mid day again......you get the trend?
First and third weekends in December could be big for you, highest act levels. 3rd weekend at mid-day.
This could be somewhat helpful to have, BUT, looking back at last January 4th when I killed my big 13 it shows medium activity. There's no telling when and where you will run into a buck of a lifetime. Find his area and go when you feel lucky, and maybe use a guide like this to help. Sometimes you'll get lucky, maybe I did on Jan 4th, but I find that the more I put into it and the harder I work, the more luck I have!
I know most of you know a lot about hunting moon phases, probably more than I do, but I'll put my findings up in dummy terms for beginners or those wanting to tryusing this as a sort of guidelineduring the upcoming season. Of course location, weather, and most importantly, hunting pressure all affect deer movement. This is just what the calendar shows, I'll probably base my hunting off of it somewhat again this season.
October 5-9, first quarter, shows all RED, highest activity level. Doesn't specify time of day.
Oct 14-18, full, shows low to medium activity in the mornings.
Oct 19-24, last quarter, shows high to highest activity, mid-day.
The last week of October doesn't look too promising, but I'm sure I'll be in the woods somewhere.
Nov 2-9, 1st 1/4, shows again, high to highest activity levels. I'll be huntin 7th and 8th, fri and sat, maybe a weekday if I can afford it.
Nov 11-16, full phase, med to low activity, morning again
Nov 17-22, last 1/4, high to highest at mid day again......you get the trend?
First and third weekends in December could be big for you, highest act levels. 3rd weekend at mid-day.
This could be somewhat helpful to have, BUT, looking back at last January 4th when I killed my big 13 it shows medium activity. There's no telling when and where you will run into a buck of a lifetime. Find his area and go when you feel lucky, and maybe use a guide like this to help. Sometimes you'll get lucky, maybe I did on Jan 4th, but I find that the more I put into it and the harder I work, the more luck I have!
07-23-2008, 07:18 AM
#48
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wisconsin and Canada
Posts: 2,415
RE: 2008 Rut Calendar
ORIGINAL: Germ
Duke a simple "Germ is Correct" would have sufficed
ORIGINAL: dukemichaels
People who know me on a first name basis know my dislike of Alsheimer.. it's not that I don't think he's a brilliant biologist.. but I think he tries to relate too much scientific info. into the most basic of mother nature's rule.. Only the strong survive.
Alsheimer has always been like Hemingway for me.. often long winded and boring in description. And I love Hemingway.. but he talks to much when he writes... if that makes sense.
I have tried for years to come up with some correllation between the second full moon and the rut. I have found nothing.
I do believe lunar periods do and can predict (for the most part) game movement tables.. but I'm a firm believer that if your lands usually see the best activity on November 10th.. they will continue to do so every November 10th for every year that follows. (or right around that date).
As for Alsheimer. A scientist can't see mother nature's plan.. so they often look at her like she's a mathematical equation ripe for solving. It's not.
The purpose of breeding in autumn for the whitetail is as simple as survival. The doe's must be bred to ensure the fawn survive the next winter.. there first and second most vulnerable time period.
Photoperiodism is likely the main cause of doe's going into estrous. We know already it is for the bucks testosterone levels.
So.. basically IMO if you see the most activity around a certain week of the year.. you will likely be best to hunt that same period of time the following year.. and so on and so on.
This whole Pineal Gland thing has me really questioning the accuracy of Adelsheimer's "Rutting Moon" theory.
quote:
The pineal gland – a small, pea-sized gland deep within the brain – measures the amount of daylight and responds to changing photoperiod. In darkness, this “third eye” secretes a hormone called melatonin, which influences the release of sex hormones from the pituitary gland. It is this response of the pineal gland to shortening day length in autumn that ensures timely breeding so fawns are born on schedule in spring.
More:
We know that a whitetail's pineal gland responds to changes in the amount of daylight by releasing hormones, which ultimately triggers the reproductive cycle. The accepted doctrine was that daylight meant sunlight, and since this varies little from year to year, it seems plausible that the rut should be relatively consistent on an annual basis.
However, the moon also produces light. Furthermore, the period of greatest moonlight varies from year to year, depending on when the full moon falls in the calendar year. Laroche noted that the brightest full moons occur in November and December.
He also uncovered another interesting fact. Most does are bred under a dark-moon period. Jumping ahead to an average 199-day gestation period, he calculated that most fawns are born within a day of the third-quarter moon. The adaptive advantage of this is obvious. Fawns born during a dark moon phase have a better chance of avoiding or escaping predators.
Based on this and other evidence, Laroche eventually formed a hypothesis. He believes decreasing amounts of daylight prime a doe's reproductive cycle. Then more subtle changes occur with the amount of available light, cued by moonlight that triggers hormonal production by the pineal gland. Alsheimer explains in his book Hunting Whitetails by the Moon, "A northern doe's estrogen level peaks around November 1 as does a buck's sperm count. With both sexes poised to breed, it stands to reason a mechanism must be in place if the doe is to enter estrus and be bred under the darker phases of the moon, which is the third quarter to first quarter. That mechanism in the north is the second full moon after the autumnal equinox, which I call the rutting moon."
http://www.bowhuntingmag.com/tactics/BW100404BT3/index.html
I just can't find any source or scientific study that states that the Pineal Gland is particularly sensitive to moonlight.
quote:
The pineal gland – a small, pea-sized gland deep within the brain – measures the amount of daylight and responds to changing photoperiod. In darkness, this “third eye” secretes a hormone called melatonin, which influences the release of sex hormones from the pituitary gland. It is this response of the pineal gland to shortening day length in autumn that ensures timely breeding so fawns are born on schedule in spring.
More:
We know that a whitetail's pineal gland responds to changes in the amount of daylight by releasing hormones, which ultimately triggers the reproductive cycle. The accepted doctrine was that daylight meant sunlight, and since this varies little from year to year, it seems plausible that the rut should be relatively consistent on an annual basis.
However, the moon also produces light. Furthermore, the period of greatest moonlight varies from year to year, depending on when the full moon falls in the calendar year. Laroche noted that the brightest full moons occur in November and December.
He also uncovered another interesting fact. Most does are bred under a dark-moon period. Jumping ahead to an average 199-day gestation period, he calculated that most fawns are born within a day of the third-quarter moon. The adaptive advantage of this is obvious. Fawns born during a dark moon phase have a better chance of avoiding or escaping predators.
Based on this and other evidence, Laroche eventually formed a hypothesis. He believes decreasing amounts of daylight prime a doe's reproductive cycle. Then more subtle changes occur with the amount of available light, cued by moonlight that triggers hormonal production by the pineal gland. Alsheimer explains in his book Hunting Whitetails by the Moon, "A northern doe's estrogen level peaks around November 1 as does a buck's sperm count. With both sexes poised to breed, it stands to reason a mechanism must be in place if the doe is to enter estrus and be bred under the darker phases of the moon, which is the third quarter to first quarter. That mechanism in the north is the second full moon after the autumnal equinox, which I call the rutting moon."
http://www.bowhuntingmag.com/tactics/BW100404BT3/index.html
I just can't find any source or scientific study that states that the Pineal Gland is particularly sensitive to moonlight.
Alsheimer has always been like Hemingway for me.. often long winded and boring in description. And I love Hemingway.. but he talks to much when he writes... if that makes sense.
I have tried for years to come up with some correllation between the second full moon and the rut. I have found nothing.
I do believe lunar periods do and can predict (for the most part) game movement tables.. but I'm a firm believer that if your lands usually see the best activity on November 10th.. they will continue to do so every November 10th for every year that follows. (or right around that date).
As for Alsheimer. A scientist can't see mother nature's plan.. so they often look at her like she's a mathematical equation ripe for solving. It's not.
The purpose of breeding in autumn for the whitetail is as simple as survival. The doe's must be bred to ensure the fawn survive the next winter.. there first and second most vulnerable time period.
Photoperiodism is likely the main cause of doe's going into estrous. We know already it is for the bucks testosterone levels.
So.. basically IMO if you see the most activity around a certain week of the year.. you will likely be best to hunt that same period of time the following year.. and so on and so on.
How about, Germ and Duke, you are correct.
I wish I would have been on here yesterday for this one.
I've never been a believer in the Rutting Moon. Up here in NW Ontario, the rut is always 1.5 weeks behind what it is in at home in WI, give or take afew days.
Being a Non-Resident up here, our season ends on November 15......and the chase is just starting to kick in, every year. I never really get to see it blown wide open.
Now, how can this be possible? The moon phase is no different than back home in WI.
My theory is, the gestation period is only so long. If last years Rutting Moon was correct, we would have years where does are dropping fawns in snow.
I'll be in Alberta from November 16-22 and I can guarantee the rut will be rockin......just like last year.
07-23-2008, 11:07 AM
#49
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Southeast, VA
Posts: 2,119
RE: 2008 Rut Calendar
I enjoy this topic and have spent countless hours reading on it and discussing it and I want to take another stab at it here.
The main problem I feel with many hunters approach to this topic is they want to deal in absolutes and that is just not possible here. A deers reproductive cycle is exactly that, a cycle which is triggered and then develops fully until conception, or not, in which case the cycle will repeat itself. The entire cycleis subject to countless variables such as location, doe age, weather, and herd dynamics/densities just to name a few.
I don't believe Alseheimer is saying the rutting moon is the day the deer rut just that is one of the triggers that can have an affect on a deers biological clock/cycle. I fully believe photoperiod is the initial trigger to act on the pineal gland of a whitetail. Further I believe it happens not just because of diminised light but when the amount of light and dark areequalor obviously whne there isless light than dark, which is not too exact and this variable I feel has a lot to do with the difference between a North rut and a South Rut as deer up North often rut much later when the dark to light ration is like 14hrs to 10hrs.
For example from approx. Sept 26 to Oct 4. in the county I hunt in the amount of light and dark are nearly equal and the amount of light is less and less every day after thatuntil mid to late Dec whenit starts to go back the other way. The shortest day is dec 12 with about 9 hrs 35 min of light. So from Septemberthroughhalf of Decemberthe days are steadily getting darker but by mere minutes(photoperiod), I feel it takes somethinga little more significantto cause a real spike in the rutting activity which leads me to the next section of rambling..
Despite what some have said here the pineal gland is a photosensory gland and detects/is affected by all light(including moonlight or lack there of), not just thephotoperiod. Google Pineal gland, pg animal studies, pg and the moon, etc and there will be more than you want to read on it.
The pineal gland releases melatonin which is a driving force in the whitetails breeding cycle. Bright light inhibits the amountproduced while darkness increases the amount produced thus the correlation between photoperiod and the whitetail rut(less light in Autumn/Winter). Less light=more melatonin from the pineal gland=higher estrogen/testosterone levels=RUT!
So without boring you with too much more I look at it like this, thefull moonon Oct14 this yearwill bea "bright light" (in some studies fullmoon lighthas shown decreases in melatonin production of over 50%).So I believe while thedaysslowly getting shorterhas initiated the beginning of the reproductive cycle(because whitetail melatonin levelsgradually increase as the days get shorter)that "Rutting Moon" orto put itplainly,Octobers full moon on the 14thand thebright nights before and after it can cause an "October lull" so to speakbecause ofa decrease in the melatonin output of the pineal gland.
So then what happens? I think that as October progresses andyou finally reach the new moon on Oct 28 that the dark nights prior to, during, and after that new moon cause a spike in melatonin output for the whitetail.That coupled with the factthose levelswereon a gradual rise due to shortened photoperiodincreases both estrogen and testosterone levels which in my opinion probably is the final trigger thatstartsmost does heat cycle (which lasts about 7 days) and causes bucks to become evenmore sexually aggressive. (IMO) Putting the actual breeding part of the rut 7 days later than the time frame ofOct 24-Nov. 5 which is a few days before the new moon and a few daysafter.(So roughly Nov.1 -12) <<< Shocking I know.
Of course that can vary based on an individual does age, health, etc. and I haven't even looked at the Moon Rise/Set timesfor those weeks too thoroughly). Or I could just be flat out wrong.
So in my opinion, after further review, I feel the new moon in October should be called the Rutting Moon not the full moon. I will forward this to Charles for his review, somone respond or I will feel like I just wasted 40 minutes of my life.
The main problem I feel with many hunters approach to this topic is they want to deal in absolutes and that is just not possible here. A deers reproductive cycle is exactly that, a cycle which is triggered and then develops fully until conception, or not, in which case the cycle will repeat itself. The entire cycleis subject to countless variables such as location, doe age, weather, and herd dynamics/densities just to name a few.
I don't believe Alseheimer is saying the rutting moon is the day the deer rut just that is one of the triggers that can have an affect on a deers biological clock/cycle. I fully believe photoperiod is the initial trigger to act on the pineal gland of a whitetail. Further I believe it happens not just because of diminised light but when the amount of light and dark areequalor obviously whne there isless light than dark, which is not too exact and this variable I feel has a lot to do with the difference between a North rut and a South Rut as deer up North often rut much later when the dark to light ration is like 14hrs to 10hrs.
For example from approx. Sept 26 to Oct 4. in the county I hunt in the amount of light and dark are nearly equal and the amount of light is less and less every day after thatuntil mid to late Dec whenit starts to go back the other way. The shortest day is dec 12 with about 9 hrs 35 min of light. So from Septemberthroughhalf of Decemberthe days are steadily getting darker but by mere minutes(photoperiod), I feel it takes somethinga little more significantto cause a real spike in the rutting activity which leads me to the next section of rambling..
Despite what some have said here the pineal gland is a photosensory gland and detects/is affected by all light(including moonlight or lack there of), not just thephotoperiod. Google Pineal gland, pg animal studies, pg and the moon, etc and there will be more than you want to read on it.
The pineal gland releases melatonin which is a driving force in the whitetails breeding cycle. Bright light inhibits the amountproduced while darkness increases the amount produced thus the correlation between photoperiod and the whitetail rut(less light in Autumn/Winter). Less light=more melatonin from the pineal gland=higher estrogen/testosterone levels=RUT!
So without boring you with too much more I look at it like this, thefull moonon Oct14 this yearwill bea "bright light" (in some studies fullmoon lighthas shown decreases in melatonin production of over 50%).So I believe while thedaysslowly getting shorterhas initiated the beginning of the reproductive cycle(because whitetail melatonin levelsgradually increase as the days get shorter)that "Rutting Moon" orto put itplainly,Octobers full moon on the 14thand thebright nights before and after it can cause an "October lull" so to speakbecause ofa decrease in the melatonin output of the pineal gland.
So then what happens? I think that as October progresses andyou finally reach the new moon on Oct 28 that the dark nights prior to, during, and after that new moon cause a spike in melatonin output for the whitetail.That coupled with the factthose levelswereon a gradual rise due to shortened photoperiodincreases both estrogen and testosterone levels which in my opinion probably is the final trigger thatstartsmost does heat cycle (which lasts about 7 days) and causes bucks to become evenmore sexually aggressive. (IMO) Putting the actual breeding part of the rut 7 days later than the time frame ofOct 24-Nov. 5 which is a few days before the new moon and a few daysafter.(So roughly Nov.1 -12) <<< Shocking I know.
Of course that can vary based on an individual does age, health, etc. and I haven't even looked at the Moon Rise/Set timesfor those weeks too thoroughly). Or I could just be flat out wrong.
So in my opinion, after further review, I feel the new moon in October should be called the Rutting Moon not the full moon. I will forward this to Charles for his review, somone respond or I will feel like I just wasted 40 minutes of my life.
07-23-2008, 01:10 PM
#50
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Southeast, VA
Posts: 2,119
RE: 2008 Rut Calendar
Quik, while I don't think Alseheimers way off some of his stuff doesn't seem to match other scientific data available and seems a little outdated. For example this is from one of his earlier articles:
The Hypothesis
"As further background, I'll offer the hypothesis for our research. At some point in autumn, the amount of daylight decreases enough to reset the whitetail's reproductive clock, thus placing the breeding season in November, December and January in the Northern Hemisphere. Once the doe's reproductive cycle is reset by a specific amount of daylight, her estrous cycle is ready to be cued by moonlight, which provides a bright light stimulus to the pineal gland several nights in a row each lunar month. Then, the rapid decrease in lunar brightness during the moon's third quarter triggers hormonal production by the pineal gland. Physiological changes prompted by the pineal gland culminate in ovulation and estrous. "
The part in bold is opposite of almost everything scientific I haveread about the pineal gland, in that bright light actuallyreducesthe ouptut of melatonin from the gland. What's worse is the very next sentence after that, which Ifeel is correct, directly contradicts what he already wrote. Had he just left out the bold and continued at "....the rapid decrease..."
I feel it would be more accurate.
Bright light does not stimulate the pineal gland itdoes the exact opposite,causes a reduction inthe output of melatonin. The only articles I can find that suggest the full moon "stimulates" the gland are hunting writers/articles. Everything I have found involving scientific data relate increased reproductive activity to decreased photoperiod and increased levels of melatonin because of the dark. Go figure.
The Hypothesis
"As further background, I'll offer the hypothesis for our research. At some point in autumn, the amount of daylight decreases enough to reset the whitetail's reproductive clock, thus placing the breeding season in November, December and January in the Northern Hemisphere. Once the doe's reproductive cycle is reset by a specific amount of daylight, her estrous cycle is ready to be cued by moonlight, which provides a bright light stimulus to the pineal gland several nights in a row each lunar month. Then, the rapid decrease in lunar brightness during the moon's third quarter triggers hormonal production by the pineal gland. Physiological changes prompted by the pineal gland culminate in ovulation and estrous. "
The part in bold is opposite of almost everything scientific I haveread about the pineal gland, in that bright light actuallyreducesthe ouptut of melatonin from the gland. What's worse is the very next sentence after that, which Ifeel is correct, directly contradicts what he already wrote. Had he just left out the bold and continued at "....the rapid decrease..."
I feel it would be more accurate.
Bright light does not stimulate the pineal gland itdoes the exact opposite,causes a reduction inthe output of melatonin. The only articles I can find that suggest the full moon "stimulates" the gland are hunting writers/articles. Everything I have found involving scientific data relate increased reproductive activity to decreased photoperiod and increased levels of melatonin because of the dark. Go figure.