I haven't actually seen this deer, but, based on his rub last winter, I'd like to, becauseI have a feeling it would qualify...
(hand is my girfriend's)



It's on my friend's land where I sometimes hunt.

If from the beginningto this day I only went by what my buddies shot I would be laying down dinks.

I wanted bigger bucks... So, I worked hard and located them.... Watched and studied them.... Then started shooting them.

I have said it a hundred times... I live 15 minutes from the PA border.... If I canfind them here..... They can befound there.
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This sounds like gawking at Playboy all day......and then going to a local women's softball tournament.....and expecting to find Jenny Finch pitching for Bill's Auto Parts.

You're more likely to find Rosie's twin.

Scott:

I believe that 100%. But it's not just what your buddies are killing. It's what your hunting lands hold.

Your record speaks volumes about what you're doing....and how you're doing it. Your point is valid, though. I don't have any friends around me that hold out for even what "I" have shot....which isn't anything many woud give a second look.

To think that all areas are equal and that everyone should hold out for 160" deer is obviously, to anyone one that can be objective for one minute, a stupid assumption.

But as far as relativity for a particular area goes...........it is also some combination of naivete, ignorance, stupidity, or arrogance for someone to think that they areseeing the best deer in their area on a regular basis. I am not referring tojustone deer either, butthe top 5-10% of what your area offers.

If you are not occasionally (ocasionally defined as once every 3-5 years) finding sheds or dead carcasses of deer considerably larger than you regularly see, then you aren't looking hard enough or you are not looking in the right places.


If you are in fact ALWAYS (always as defined sometime during the season) seeing the largest deer your area has to offer each year, then your deer are really, really stupid.

We have guards stationed at the border and any buck over 100” that tries to enter from Ohio gets shot. Same as any buck that hits 100” in the rest of the state gets shot. We don’t take too kindly that kind ‘round here.

I think you are absolutely right. In the end it comes down to priorities, situation andcircumstance. I could hunt areas with bigger bucks than my farm, but I have other priorities that limit the time I can spend there (staying employed and trying to keep from becoming divorced are the top 2). I'm not complaining. I just think it comes down to what are you willing/able to do to make it happen.

Or....they just aren't there. You can not say, (sans some combination of naivete, ignorance, stupidity) otherwise, with any sense of accuracy. It's an opinion....based on a "whim".

See above.

In Medina County, Ohio, most "big" bucks are in the 130"-140" range.Their are bucks that would hit 150, 160 and maybe 170 in a few areas around the county. I know of a two 23 points, a19 point,a 12point and a few other that would go at least 160" (the 12 point and the 19 point could probably hit 170). None of these guys had them measured or entered into any buck contests though, and two were shot by kids. A few were in the local paper (Medina County Gazette). Theirare no"high" fencedareas and spotlighting is highly illegal (and the game warden is strict).I personally saw two separate deer a total of three times that were over 130, one might be a little over 140 (nighttime video). My trail cameras picked up roughly 7 deer over 115" last year, and somewhere around 13 deer in the last six years over that mark with the biggest being around 160-170.

I am defining "they" as the the biggest 5-10% of what a particular area holds. That could be a 90" or a 150".


[blockquote]
I stand by this statement. Opinion? Yes Whim? Hardly. [/blockquote]

Scott - I'd LOVE to agree with you here, but I can't. There's a very distinct reasonwhy you stay on the west side of the PA/OHline. We both know that there's a finite limit to how much one person can "watch" or "study" deer -and no matter what - it isn't gonna make 'em grow any bigger. I could walk the PA gamelands until my feet bled, and I'd never kill a 150" deer. I could drag Cox's army through there on a shed hunt, and I'd never find a 70" shed. It's just not gonna happen. You just can't find a deer that isn't there. It's like Polar Bear hunting in Florida.

I hunted Ohio this year. In 3 days in the stand, my buddy shot the biggest buck of his life. I spent 5 days on standand killed a buck that would've torn the antlers off of the one I killed in PA, and passed up about 5 more just like it. 5 days, and I saw more quality deer over that span than I'd seen in hundreds of stand-hours in PA, hunting some of the best land that my home county has to offer. Sure, we scouted fast and dialed-in on some good activity - but I do the same thing at home every year. It just doesn't yield the same results.

I spot/glass literally thousands of PA deer all over Fayette, Greene, Washington and Westmoreland Countiesevery year. Thousands. I can say without hesitation that it's everything a guy can do to kill a 130-class whitetail here.

It's easy to sit back and say "you're not trying hard enough" or "you're not looking in the right places," but there comes a point where you are legitimately and routinely shooting the biggest deer around, and you have to accept that you're not hunting in Pike County.Or just realize that you're waiting for a statistical anomaly that might only come along once-in-a-lifetime. If ever.

A 165" buck goes down inElk County, PA or Preston County, WV - it's headline news. The same deer eats a bullet in Iowa, nobody notices. It's just that simple.