Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

I hate that saying, "A slow hit is better than a fast miss". [:@]

I've been getting my X Force dialed in and although it has a 6'' brace height, and the arrows are going 311 fps, it's the best shooting bow I've owned.

What about fixed broadheads? I have same POI with Slick Trick standards as field tips @ 30 yards.

If you pick the right bow, fletching, broadhead, and tune the combination, you can have fast and accurate. ;)

The group I've picturedis at 60 yards. I've owned the bow about 2 weeks, only shot a few groups with it at 60 yards.

The fastest bow I've owned is also the most accurate. :)

Anyone else shoot fast and accurate? Let's hear it so we can stop that annoying phrase. [8D][/align]

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

I just picked up a Katera and was shooting over 310fps with a 429gr. arrow at the shop. Haven't shot past 30 but it has a 6" brace height and is the best shootin bow I have shot to date. I am trying to get out this Saturday to sight it out to 50 yards and hope I can just shoot half as good as the bow is capable of;)

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

You should turn pro.:) That group will win EVERY 3D shoot you will ever enter in ANY class.....especially if it tightens up as you move closer.

That being said......I won shoots this year with a bow shooting 330fps and with one shooting 278fps. I don't "think" I was more accurate with one over the other.

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

Awsome group. I shot at 50 yards a few times last year and it is hard. I cant hold a group in the vitals of my target yet. But my bow is only sooting 200 something fps. I shoot fine from 30 on in.

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

I think fast and accurate is the way to go!!! Too bad I can't afford it just yet, lol. Next year I hope to be shooting a Martin, b/c they're fast and affordable......
The speed offered by bows that shoot fast gives a particular advantage to someone who hunts shorter shots, like myself in NJ. My longest shot opportunity is usually about 20 yards. So having a bow that shoots really fast could take away almost ALL of the guess work for distancing a deer where I hunt.

...one day......

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

You are leaving out to many equations... Such as unknown yardage, unmarked scoring rings (can't see them from shooting distance) and the choke factor.

To answer the threads question....

I have shot 20 up on a 30 target course (11,10,8,5, scoring)shooting 320 fps. I'd say that is pretty good [8D]

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

I have heard many times on this site and others something along the lines of "I don't like that much speed for hunting" or something similar. Now I can understand not wanting a super heavy draw that would not be useful for hunting but I don't understand why a faster bow if comfortable in all hunting positions is not "hunting" desireable.

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

Conceded. But you gotta admit.....if you can throw up 60yd consistency like that.....you're a leg up on the crowd.;)

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

I like to shoot things.

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

Uhhh... No. ANY hit is better than a miss, and not just everyone has the tuning and/or shooting ability to handle a buttload of speed, so it's true. You can just buck up and deal with it, because I've had to put up with this idiotic "I can do it so everyone else needs to do it my way" nonsense from speed freaks FOR YEARS.

Besides what I already mentioned about not everyone having the capabilities needed to handle high speeds...

The faster the arrow is flying, the more perfect the broadhead needs to be. Frankly, most broadheads simply are not up to the challenge of go-fast bows. They have to be mounted perfectly true to the shaft. And you have to go way up the price scale to get carbon arrows that'll handle broadheads at speeds in excess of 300 fps, and even then it's hard to get the broadhead mounted perfectly true to the shaft, because the shafts themselves aren't perfectly true.

Putting together ultra speedy hunting rigs not an endeavor for the faint of heart... or thin of wallet.

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

I’m no speed freak, but I too think this is a dumb saying. Maybe back in the day it was a little harder to shoot a speed bow, but with today’s equipment, accuracy and speed area far from mutually exclusive. Even back then, with a little practice, speed bows could be shot well.

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

Quik and I shoot the exact same bow... and as much as Fran and I have similar personalities and outlooks on life... we go in different directions on speed.

I got no problem with it... but I like hunt tight.... I can't see 30 yards out of most of my stands.

One of my requirements for a good hunting set up is being able to see the arrow in flight and watch it impact my target.

Anyone who has done any serious amount of bowhunting for any serious period of time will tell you that knowing where you hit the animal is a critical piece of information to have. I have 20/15 eyes and save using a lit arrow nock, I can't see an arrow over 310fps in flight very well... and especially not in the light conditions that hunting takes place in. Sure if you recover the arrow you'll have an indication to some extent, but there are a lot of variables there... I'd rather have an eye witness account... and once you take up the trail... then you really know what you are dealing with.

To me, having a bow that shoots incredibily fast is all great and fine... but for me personally I don't think its the right tool for the job. Its great if you suck at judging yardage and want to win lots of plaques and belt buckles at 3D shoots.... but if we are talking 3D shoots... there is a subforum for that. ASA has a speed limit... and its 280... which happens to be about my personal speed limit for my hunting bows. It is easier to shoot, helps the bow be a bit more quiet, and allows me to know EXACTLY what kind of hit I made. More importantly, I am comfortable and confident with it. Its like shooting a deer with a .338 or turning over a flower bed in front of the house with a tractor.....sure you can do it... but that doesn't mean its the perfect tool for the task at hand. All depends on how you look at it.

I'll always hold true that a bow you can shoot well is better than a super fast bow you can't shoot well. Anybody care to argue that?

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

Arts Back!!!!

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

For certain people.

The guy who thinks a tuning session is dropping his bow off at the pro shop and picking it up on the way home? Nope.

The guy who can't shoot good enough to keep all his arrows on a basketball at 20 yards with even a 250 fps bow? Nope. (Oh, they're out there. Believe me. I've seen 'em.)

The guy who puts his bow up at the end of the season and doesn't take it out again until opening day? Nope.

The guy who selects his arrows by grabbing a random handful from the bucket at Wal Mart? Nope.

The guy who shows up to a shooting proficiency test with a bow that's got cobwebs all over it and even a dirt dauber nest at the fork in the top limb; who walks off down the trail to the shooting area without even checking his sights on the practice range? Nope! And yes, that's a true story. I was director for the test. He was really pissed that he didn't pass the test to qualify for the hunt.

The guy who shoots at least once a week year round, maybe hits the 3D circuit, who is a competent bow mechanic and is constantly tinkering with his stuff? Yeah, maybe him. He might be the one who can take advantage of the speed. And he's what... Maybe one out of ten thousand bowhunters?

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

You choose people/situations that are unlikely to produce competent archers in the first place to back your argument. If they aren’t good with a bow of ANY speed, they aren’t even considered in the equation.
From what I’ve observed, the vast majority of “speed freaks” ARE competent archers who just choose to shoot a really fast bow, and get tired of people telling them that they shouldn’t or don’t need to.

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

Arthur, what do you consider to be the gray line in speed past which tuning for both bow and arrow become very regular and critical. I know all bows require regular maint. but I have heard many times now that speed requires much more tinkering and I would like to examine the threshold.

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

I used to think 250 fps was the glass ceiling, TG78 but they've come up with some newer broadheads. Now I think it's about 280 where you really start getting into the area where you really need to know what you're doing to make it work.

rybo, I chose people that I'm convinced represent the vast majority of bowhunters. Well, granted.... one of 'em was a complete blockhead and didn't have any business playing with sharpened sticks in the first place. I'm thinking of the guys who need to take 'a slow hit is better than a fast miss' to heart. They completely lack the capability of using high performance equipment!

You think only of the few, VERY few, bowhunters who actually take bowhunting and archery to the level of an avocation. For those guys, you're right. I'm on board with ya. But until you admit that these guys are a small, quite small, minority of bowhunters, and the huge majority of bowhunters are weekend warriors with a scattering of complete dunderheads, we've got an argument.

And we REALLY have an argument when it comes to preaching speed to the guys who aren't equipped for it. If they don't have the skills, don't have the motivation to acquire the skills, don't have the time to devote to maintaining the skills they do acquire, they don't need to be shooting freakin' 300 fps. Period.

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

Trouble is - its true.
But it is also true that a fast hit is better than a slow miss.

I see just the opposite around here - most of the "competent" archers concerns are accuracy and shootability. Speed is nice
as long as those are not compromised.

Many of thosemost hung on speed are lookingto buythe magic pill which will make them a better shooter.

Steve

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

At 278 FPS my ROSS isthe fast bow I have shot. I will be making some changes to get her around 250-260 FPS. I fine these speeds give me great BH(fixed) flight and a heavy arrow.

One thing I now like about todays speed bows is I can put a +500 grain arrow on them and get the 250-260 FPS I want[:-]

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

I'll agree the vast majority are average or dunderheads. It's just in our observations as to how many of them they buy into the speed thing & thinking it can make up for them not being any good.

Me & germ are pretty similar. I am really liking shooting a "speed" bow and slowing it down with a heavy arrow.

but then again I also like shooting my trad bow at a blistering 174 fps;)

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

I agree 100% with both of these statements and couldn't have said it any better!

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

I recently chronographed mine (07 allegiance) and hit right around 280 with the poundage set at about 64. I had the mindset to turn it up to 70 after I increased my pull strength but I think I will just leave it alone and have a more comfortable shootingbow.

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

That's not what I've observed. I cannot tell you how many people walk into our shop and say something to this effect...."I want the fastest bow you've got on the wall." 95% of those guys don't have a FREAKING CLUE as to what they're getting. I've tried to talk them down, but it's nouse. They want speed, and that's that.

I think those of us around this forum are more exceptions to the rule. We're all a little more fanatical about this than the "general public"....so what goes on around here isn't necessarily a good representation of "real life." I don't mean that in a negative light, quite the opposite in fact.

It took me a while to segregate what goes on here and what I do at the shop, because I'm talking to a different "breed" of people if you will. Most all of us around here are infinitely more knowledgeable about our sport than 90% of the guys I talk to at the shop.

Let's face it....Speed sells bows, there's no if and's or but's about it. Shoot, companies even offer "smooth" and "speed" mods on their bows now. Now why would they do that if speed wasn't a HUGE selling factor? Say what ya'll want, speed ain't all it's cracked up to be, and it's not everything.

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

BINGO!

I'm right there with you.... my HCA Iron Mace... pulling 63#s and cooking a 447grain arrow along at a healthy 277fps. Thats as fast as I want it to go. Drawing 63#s... is cake compared to the 73#s I shot three years ago... and I shoot it so much better too... do the math on a KE calculation.... 78ft/#s for anyone who believe in that sorta thing.... regardless... for the size targets I shoot/game I hunt.... its a Mack truck.

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

Ya know. To this day I've not had a bow that I shot better than I did with my old Hoyt ProVantage, 20 years ago. 80 pounds and shoved a 560 grain 2216 downrange at a blistering 227 fps. In 3D tournaments, I was regularly slaughtering guys who were shooting much faster bows than me. That bow wasn't exactly slow for the time but it wasn't as fast as the old High Country Excalibur, or Pearson... Spoiler. I think that was their speed bow. Can't remember for sure. Browning had a screamer back then too. Mirage?

My bow was 48" axle to axle, 10" brace height with a heavily deflexed riser. So easy to tune - and that was a good thing because that blasted 1st generation fastflight would never stop creeping. But that bow's great attribute was it would put every single arrow I shot exactly where I aimed it. Just every once in awhile my aim sucked.;)

I took a similar one to my old sweetheart, Hoyt SuperSlam set at 65 pounds with 2216 arrows, and shot a tournament just a few years ago. It was a club shoot. Only classes were compound and traditional. I was shooting fingers and barebow vs guys with their tournament rigs - brand new Mathews with scopes and 3' stabilizers.

I won.

Here's what's odd.We've got a guy here who's shot a good group or two with a fast bow, complaining about how people are talking about how a slow hit is better than a fast miss, basically dissing speed bows. Here I, am a tournament winner with a slow bow, but I'm not going around complaining that speed demons are badmouthing slow bows. After all....

I BEAT 'EM!

Hahahahahahaha! [8D]

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

Arthur,

To me that just proves that you were the best shooter out there that day. I am sure you would have beat them with a speed bow if that's what you had been shooting. Speed and accuracy aren't mutually exclusive and shouldn't be classified as such. A good shooter is going to shoot a fast bow well and a slow bow well. The fast bows today are alot more forgiving than they use to be. I shoot a fast bow but I shoot apretty heavy arrow with so I am only shooting in the high 270's. But there are that shoot super fast rigs that can shoot circles around me and guys that shoot slow rigs that can shoot circles around me. At the end of the day it's alot about the jerk behind the string. It's not a good idea for most new shooters to start with a speed bow because they tend to be more difficult to shoot. Of course I have seen some newbies start out with excellent natural form that are the exception to the rule. But, the saying in question as no validity becuase it imples that fast bows aren't accurate. Sure a slow hit is better than a fast miss but a fast hit is better than a slow miss. Either way missing sucks and either way it is attributable to the shooter, not the bow.

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

I feel like my record last year, huntingwith anultra-high-speed, ultra-low weight arrow setup speaks for itself. (350+ fps, 290 grain arrow).

Testing the waters before I started to tinker, Igot about 1,000,000 reasons from people who claimed to "know" explaining to me why it wouldn't work, why I was nuts, or how I was certain to kill myself. I promptlyfiled all that trash in its proper container, and trusted my own judgment.

When the dust settled, I found 2 reasons that I was right.


Reason #1


Reason #2

I guess when you really break it down, it's a game of brace height, manageable draw, KE and know-how. It's not rocket science to put together a blazing fast setup on a bow that is built to handle it.

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

I know, I know, SA. Just couldn't resist a little twist of the knife.;) But you did pick up on the thinly disguised meaning behind it. It's the shooter, not the bow and not the speed, that makes the difference. Bowhunting has gotten too equipment oriented.

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

If you can shoot a fast bow accurately and consistently, I don't see where it can do ANYTHING but help you. Just because I (or anyone for that mater) am not hung up on speed doesn't mean it's not an asset. My bow shoots in the 275fps range with 477gr arrows.....with an 8in brace height!and that (for me) gives me the perfect blend of speed and forgiveness that I need to get the job done in the field in hunting situations with hunting close on shooting from different angles etc...

If you canproduce the same resultswith afaster set up (Fran has obviouslyproved it can indeed be done....nice deer btw) then I say "go for it". Sure a "slow hit is better than a fast miss", but then again any hit is better than a fast miss or a slow miss.

Just hit what you're aiming at and your problems (hunting wise) will be few.......;)

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

Seems to me that a fast arrow would be more forgiving in the field, since distance estimates aren't as critical for a fast arrow as they are for the same arrow shot at a slower speed? So it seems that, in practice, a fast arrow would probably be a more accurate arrow.

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

Amen!;)

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

There should be no such thing as estimates in the field. There should be no such thing as estimates. If the yardage isn't known, it's a no-shot situation. Use a rangefinder! If you don't want to use a range finder in the heat of the moment, mark off distances around your stand. You know if that deer is halfway between that tree you've got marked at 30 yards and the bush at 40, it's a 35 yard shot. A little closer to the tree, 33 yards. A little closer to the bush, 37 yards. No guessing.

This is and always has been a matter of bowhunting ethics and I hate to see people using arrow speed as a substitute for good ethics.

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

Thanks for the compliment; I'm just a backyard shooter, never entered any contest.
I'm happy with consistent 3'' at 30 yards, so I likely wouldn't win anything, just choke.[&o]
Prior to this bow I was shooting a Katera XL with an arrow speed of 277-279, but I wasn't any more accurate with it.
I paper tune the heck out of my bows and I'm willing to change tip weight, fletching, or shafts to have it right.:eek:

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

I've taken 22 deer, 4 turkeys, and a bobcat by bow at 22 yards or less. Only once was my speed over 300, most of the time it's been 265-285 fps. I don't intend to use speed as a substitute for ethics. I'll still set up for the same 20 yard shot maked with little surveyors flags this fall. The flags are placed at 17 yards for my wife. She is shooting a blazing 213 fps and her single pin is set for 17 yards (she has 8 deer and two turkeys to her short range credit). I'll have a second yardage marker at 25 yards, if I can even shoot that far, typically I can't. (I also have a laser range finder hanging around my neck that I use to determine anyunmarked distances, never needed it, it's too thick.)

Do I need to shoot 311? No. But if I can and I'mmore accurate than ever, why not?
What I dislike about "that saying" is the assumption that people who shoot fast arrows are somehow inherently less accurate. You can shoot a slow untuned bow, or a slow mismatched arrow. "That belaboured phrase" is used as a meritless dig.

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

I thought people who shoot fast bows were just trying to make up for a short we-we. :D:D

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

Quote:

---

Arthur p

---

And there should be no hunger. No want. No car crashes. No impoliteness. No arrogance.

Obviously, there is.

In the field, there can be any number of reasons why someone would be estimating distance. For instance, if you pull back your bow when a deer goes behind a bush, and you are looking through the peep when he comes where you didn’t expect him and he walking towards you several steps before turning and giving you a good, broadside shot, you might need to estimate. In situations such as this, arrow speed can reduce the effect of a bad estimate, so I would think a faster arrow would be a good thing, other things being equal.

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

The problem with turning pro is there are speed restrictions. A faster bow allowsfor flatter shooting. 3D pros are pro because they are very good at judging yardage. To anwser the question, yes I have always shot better with a quick bow. I am shooting the Katera at 313fps and shoot it better than any bow I have ever shot in the past.

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

Not in IBO;)

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

What he said.

RE: Lets Stop "A Slow Hit Is Better Than A Fast Miss"
 

So in your opinion...how short is 369 fps?:D:D