Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

http://us.cnn.com/2008/US/weather/06/18/midwest.flooding/index.html?iref=topnews

I was reading on cnn.com about the floods and it said that Levee breaks in Adams county Illinois caused 30,000 acres of woods and farmland to be under water.

Near Oakville Illinios floodwaters covered 21 square miles of corn and soybean fields.

Of course the first thoughts are with the people who are impacted bythis disaster. But the picture below from cnn.com got me also thinking about the deer herd in this area. What impact will this have on deer hunting in places like Adams county Ill and parts of Iowa and Missouri that border the river.

I'd have to think that alot of the fawns will be unable to escape the floodwaters. And also much of the crops will be destroyed so there will be less food to go around.

(The caption on the picture called this a "school" of deer LOL.)

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

its getting bad here too, almost as bad as the flood of '93 was, and it hasnt even crested yet

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RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

hopefully all the big bucks will head for Jo Daviess Co. :D

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

This crest as of now will be more than 10 foot lower than '93 for StL. It is close to '93 levels up around Hannibal though, within a half foot. Levee breaks up there will continue to lower the crest elevation.

Starting Friday I get the pleasure of 12 hour workdays thru the weekend and into next week on flood duty (levee patrol and inspections).

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

I never did get to shed hunt a lot of the property I wanted to because it's been under water since before February with no end in sight...

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

I really feel bad for the people out there, I know here in my town in NJ we are taking collections (money, food, water,clothing, etc.) I called my friend up yesterday, we have 2000 plus acres he lets us hunt, we are further enough away that there isn't any impact on the wildlife

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

Theyll head north where the water is going down becasue its all heading south along wiht all of our skeeters up here :D.

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

Let me ask a genuine question here...does anyone else besides me wonder why people choose to live in these areas, especially those that have lost everything at least once due to floods? Farmers I can see some point considering that the land is prime for their livelyhood...but beyond that I just cannot keep from scratching my head on it.

I consider myself a charitable person towards others in crisis...but this situation divides me inside. The charitable/caring vs. logical thought processes.

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

Because of modifications to the rivers as well as development in wetlands, you are getting a greater tendency for floods that impact areas that were not prone to flooding in the past. Also, keep in mind that many of the levees have been in place for generations and the areas behind them have been assumed to be safe. So everybody is surprised when they fail. My concern is why, after 1993 and the flood in 2000 people werent paying much, much more attention to the condition of the levees.

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

I don't fully agree with the premise of river mods increasing flood risk to new areas, in fact not much at all. You can counter that with the fact that due to many flood controls in place (Locks and Dams, man made reservoirs, etc) we have tools to reduce the impact of flooding as well as frequency. Right now, many of our flood control lakes in MO (flood control is THE primary purpose of the Corps lakes) are holding back a lot oThere is much more to the question of paying attention to levees after past year major floods. We certainly have many levees that are not in optimum conditions, and some that are in bad need of repair in order to provide maximum protection. However, often the stories the media reports don't quite tell the story. For example...some of the levees that are getting overtopped were designed to overtop at these water levels for engineering purposes (to build landside head, flow/level reduction or relief, etc). Along those lines...folks behind levees are fully aware of the amount of protection (how high river level) that they live behind.

So many of those folks in trouble now have been in trouble at least once if not multiple times, so I don't buy into being suprised by floods. If you live in a floodplain, you should expect floods.

People look at a 100 year flood and say, well every 100 years that might happen. The real way to look at it is that EVERY year, there is a 1% chance it will happen.

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

On a lighter note...I noticed CNN's caption to that pic of deer in the water called them a "school of deer". I guess once they hit the water the term changes from "herd" to "school". Does that mean all the fish left behind when the water goes down will be reported "herds of dead and dying fish"?

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

By that logic, then people deserve what they get for living in areas that may get hit by tornados at a greater frequency than others, even if it hasn't happened for a couple generations. Ditto for earthquakes, wildfires, etc.

I'm not supporting people who build a new house or buy a house in what is clearly a flood prone area. But, what is or isnt a flood prone area can change thru time (both positively or negatively) due to natural conditions or man-made modifications. Any hydrologist can tell you that.

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

First and foremost, I never said anyone "deserves" anything. While I don't get some people's insistance on ignoring the obvious possibilities, I do not wish them ill will. I would never say someone that falls out of treestand that did not wear a safety belt deserves to be paralized, even though I do think treestand hunting without one is stupid.

No, that is not my logic, and...many if not most of these folks in trouble (in MO and IL) are in areas that clearly are flood areas. When you look out your kitchen window at the MS River...you have a good idea. When you lost everything in '93, and now you are on the news crying because "you lost it all again" you have a good idea. I do not think there are many flood victims at all that can honestly say, "We never expected that this could happen."

Comparing subtle differences in flood zones due to man induced changes to tornadoes, wildfires andearthquakes is simply ridiculous. I have been around a hydrologist or two and a few levee designs in my line of work, trust me.;)

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

The fact is that there is considerable attention paid to levee deficiencies. I have spent many hours investigating, documenting, and even studying them. But, funding is the driver there...someone has to pay for a new levee or repairs and modifications to existing levees. As with the case with many things in our country, it is easy to find more important use of money when the emergency is not at hand.

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

Nothing silly about stating the obvious; that living in a particular area may put one at higher risk for certain things than people in other areas may face. Since you have obviously chosen to live at the northern edge of the New Madrid fault, you are obviously willing to accept a certain amount of risk for earthquake that people in other areas dont face.

I don't agree with people who got creamed in 93 rebuilding in the same place. But this year you have people getting hit in areas that were high and dry in 93, at least in other parts of Illinois. That is because their grandparents built in areas that the levee builders assured them would be safe. Again, manmade modifications to waterways can have positive or negative benefits in the long run, and what is or isnt flood prone can change. One of my best friend is a state climatologist/physical geographer who specializes in flood events and has been serving as an expert witness for court proceedings related to katrina flooding. If you like i will pass along his email and you can argue this with him.

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

LCC hit the nail on the head. We have caused the flooding to be worse. If I hear the "500" year flood theory speech again I am going to go nuts.

We destroyed all the wetlands, folks the water has no place to go[X(]

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

I wonder why the gov. isnt getting blamed for the levees like they were during Katrina, all those in New Orleans that were to stupid to get out of the way and ended up blaming the Gov for everything including the levees.

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

My original point had nothing to do with anyone affected in any area of low probability of flooding.

I can see now why I am loosing this debate now, considering your best friend is a climatologist/physical geographer, LOL. What in the world that has to do with river engineering, river hydrology, or levee design, I have no idea. But seriously man...you win.

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

You do realize thatclimatologist/physical geographers andhydrologists frequently work together on projects and even serve together as faculty or research staff in the same departments and research centers.Sometimes they even teach courses that have pretty much the same content, just different titles. Physical geographers frequently serve on the M.A. and Ph.D. committees of people studying in the fields of engineering and hydrology that you discussed.

To get this back to a more cordial tone, I understandmany of your points. However, anytime you have manmade modifications to somethinglike the Mississippi River, it is eventually gonna come back to bite you on the butt. So, you eitherleave much of the rivervalley vacant or accept the fact that the crap is gonna hit the fan from time to time.

For folks who may be interested in this general topic, check out the book by Craig Colten, Transforming New Orleans and its Environs: Centuries of Change. It actually deals witha large area of the lower Mississippi River valley and discusses the pros and cons of ambitious levee building projecta and other modifications of the river thru time..

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

We're in a drought here in FL and all over the southeast. Its funny how the weather works like that.Massive flooding and sevre drought within 500 mi of each other (+/-)

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

Its George Bush's fault. He can alter nature to ensure that global warming and cooling occur at the same time.[:o]

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

How is the water level on the illinios river in pike county? Sounds likethis means the 3 stands I have ready for this fall on the bank of the illinios river are under water.I have 2,000 acres to hunt on between the levee and the river.


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RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

To original question...about the deer...how long areas are under water will dictate the long term affect on the deer. For the most part, IMO, deer are going to get out of the way just fine, and what food is available in these areas will determine how many come back to stay. Many of these areas will not get planted this year, if ever again, and so surviving mast trees become a good indicator of what the future resident deer pop's will be like.

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

I went thru the flood of 93 on the Mississippi riverin Illinois. The area I was in had little impact because the river valley was narrow andthe vast majority offarming was on the bluff tops.Its gonna vary somewhat even in the same counties.

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RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

We can throw the Location theory out there now[8D]

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

Might be interesting to go back and look at the deer harvest figures for the counties along the Mississippi that were hit hardest by the flood of 93 as well as the one in 2000 (or was it 2001?) and compare them to previous and subsequent years.

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

I'm Glad I don't have a lease paying $50 to $75 an acre in the area.

I'm sure the deer will be Ok though. They are pretty resilient. Like was said before, how many come back will depend to a large degreeon food sourcesavailable.

Dan

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

I dont think food is gonna be an issue unless the flood water stays there for three or four months and nothing grows. Post flood grass and other natural food plants do pretty good in flood water deposited soil. But then again, if you have an unusually high deer population that does in fact depend on crops, then I guessyou might have a problem. I would have to take a look at past post-flood deer harvests and see some pretty bad declines before i would lose any sleep over it.

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RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

I live in Quincy and am in the heart of this flood. The majority of the levees are holding at this point and if they were to break I really doubt there will be any change in deer density. So far, I believe there has been 6 levees that have broken in about an 8-9 county radius. Most of these levees control 3,000-8,000 acres. We own 700 acres of swamp ground on the Illinois River and every year from about February till early July it is all under water. There isn't a single inch of tillable land on this farm. Yet, each Fall, it is loaded with deer. Most people don't realize howfar deer will travel during hunting season. Another point is that the islands in the Mississippi River are loaded with deer as well. There is no way to plant crops on islands yet the deer are everywhere on them. Personally, I don't think you will have anything to worry about come hunting season and this comes from past experience.

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

I spent six years on the river north of you, up between Muscatine and the Quad-Cities. I was on the Andalusia Slough branch of the Mississippi, with lots of islands. It was amazing how far those deer could swim in the river current to get back and forth from the islands to the river bank.

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

I knew that, but the location arguement would have been fun. There you go using common sense and logic[8D] Are farm is along a river. It's floods every year

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

It's up there pretty good. You might have some driftwood stuck in there. If your tree is even still there.

RE: Impact of Flooding on West Central Illinois deer herd
 

I bet there are some fawns that drowned though.

I just can't see how anewborn knee high fawn could swim that far to avoid the flood, but I could be wrong. I suppose its possible.