Buck:Doe Ratio....How bad can it be?
05-28-2008, 02:34 PM
#1
Dominant Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
Buck:Doe Ratio....How bad can it be?
If you do the math......how bad can it really be?
If we have to assume that the newborn ratio is 1:1......let's assume you hunt a square mile. 640 acres and your herd count is 20/sq. mi. .
Let's say you start with a 9:1 (highly unlikely....but for the sake of the argument.....we'll use it). 20 deer, total. Let's even go a step further and say you kill 2 racked bucks off your property. Now.....you are at 0:18.
Now....if you have a 75% fawn survival rate.....and assume100% are bred (1 fawn:1 Doe).....you have 18 does giving birth to 9 buck fawns and 9 doe fawns. Take out your 25% that don't survive.....and you now have13 fawns surviving......half of which are bucks.If you have an equal %-age of doe mortality....you now have a herd that entails 31 deer for the upcoming season......and closer to a5:1 Buck
oe ratio.
I'm one to see a lot of deer throughout a season....and I admit to seeing very few bucks. But.....that don't mean they aren't there.
Throw in displacement/Dispersal.....and I think it pretty much evens out (some leave.....some move in).
Is there anything wrong with this way of looking at this? I just think the ratios we see posted are sometimes NOT the way things really are in the wild.
If we have to assume that the newborn ratio is 1:1......let's assume you hunt a square mile. 640 acres and your herd count is 20/sq. mi. .
Let's say you start with a 9:1 (highly unlikely....but for the sake of the argument.....we'll use it). 20 deer, total. Let's even go a step further and say you kill 2 racked bucks off your property. Now.....you are at 0:18.
Now....if you have a 75% fawn survival rate.....and assume100% are bred (1 fawn:1 Doe).....you have 18 does giving birth to 9 buck fawns and 9 doe fawns. Take out your 25% that don't survive.....and you now have13 fawns surviving......half of which are bucks.If you have an equal %-age of doe mortality....you now have a herd that entails 31 deer for the upcoming season......and closer to a5:1 Buck
oe ratio.I'm one to see a lot of deer throughout a season....and I admit to seeing very few bucks. But.....that don't mean they aren't there.
Throw in displacement/Dispersal.....and I think it pretty much evens out (some leave.....some move in).
Is there anything wrong with this way of looking at this? I just think the ratios we see posted are sometimes NOT the way things really are in the wild.
05-28-2008, 02:42 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 2,849
RE: Buck:Doe Ratio....How bad can it be?
From everything I have read buck survival rate is well below that of does from the first year on up. I don't recall exactly why it was lower the first year (I think it has something to do with growing more boneand therefore they areunable to store as much fat as a doe fawn), but every year after that is relatively self-explanatory (expendature during the rut). Add that to the fact that in general hunters will shoot a 1.5 year old buck over any doe and there you go.
05-28-2008, 02:46 PM
#4
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 9,445
RE: Buck:Doe Ratio....How bad can it be?
ORIGINAL: huntingson
From everything I have read buck survival rate is well below that of does from the first year on up. I don't recall exactly why it was lower the first year (I think it has something to do with growing more boneand therefore they areunable to store as much fat as a doe fawn), but every year after that is relatively self-explanatory (expendature during the rut). Add that to the fact that in general hunters will shoot a 1.5 year old buck over any doe and there you go.
From everything I have read buck survival rate is well below that of does from the first year on up. I don't recall exactly why it was lower the first year (I think it has something to do with growing more boneand therefore they areunable to store as much fat as a doe fawn), but every year after that is relatively self-explanatory (expendature during the rut). Add that to the fact that in general hunters will shoot a 1.5 year old buck over any doe and there you go.
05-28-2008, 02:49 PM
#6
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Chatham, Ohio
Posts: 8,834
RE: Buck:Doe Ratio....How bad can it be?
I personally believe their is no way to accurately figure out the ratio you have in your area unless you fence it up and start tranquilizing the deer. There isno way you can tell which deer move in and move out and how far their boundaries are. Especially with bucks, which might moves miles in one day.
Now granted, if you see 20 different does in one day, and no bucks, then i can see where you might be able to tell. But in my area, i could see 15 does one day in a stand and 5 bucks the next, it just depends on a bunch of different factors.
Now i can agree with what you said. After the fawns are born, if the ratio is very bad, then it should start to even out. You also have to account for the number of deer that get hit by cars. During the summer and spring months, i bet 80% of the deer i see hit are does. But then come fall and that number switches to the bucks.
Now granted, if you see 20 different does in one day, and no bucks, then i can see where you might be able to tell. But in my area, i could see 15 does one day in a stand and 5 bucks the next, it just depends on a bunch of different factors.
Now i can agree with what you said. After the fawns are born, if the ratio is very bad, then it should start to even out. You also have to account for the number of deer that get hit by cars. During the summer and spring months, i bet 80% of the deer i see hit are does. But then come fall and that number switches to the bucks.
05-28-2008, 02:56 PM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Wentzville, MO
Posts: 1,375
RE: Buck:Doe Ratio....How bad can it be?
I was going to say that it sounded plausible, but I can't remember reading anything that would support or refute the likelihood of an even number of each sex being born. To me, it seems natural that it would happen that way, but does it
05-28-2008, 02:57 PM
#9
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Chatham, Ohio
Posts: 8,834
RE: Buck:Doe Ratio....How bad can it be?
Before i had trail cameras, i never saw bucks. Partly because i was young and dumb and not much of a good hunter, and because they are mostly nocturnal. Now after having cameras for 5 years, i would put the ratio at 2:1 or 3:1 in my area with plenty of food available. And if i include my sightings from stands last year alone, i would bet on a 2:1 ratio in my part of Medina county.
Alot of the hunters around me are not hesitating to take does now either, which helps greatly.
Alot of the hunters around me are not hesitating to take does now either, which helps greatly.
05-28-2008, 03:07 PM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,487
RE: Buck:Doe Ratio....How bad can it be?
Pretty much what everyone else is saying.
From everything I have read buck mortality is much higher from nonhunting deaths. They travel much more during the rut, exposing themselves to many more road crossings.( we all know what can happen there) And the wear and tear of the rut takes quite a few more bucks that it does does.(those last 2 words look strange together
)Specially in really bad winters. And how many does do you know of that die from fighting or wounds during the rut.
Those things added to the many more bucks harvested during the hunting season, and it doesn't look good for the balanced sex ratio.
From everything I have read buck mortality is much higher from nonhunting deaths. They travel much more during the rut, exposing themselves to many more road crossings.( we all know what can happen there) And the wear and tear of the rut takes quite a few more bucks that it does does.(those last 2 words look strange together
)Specially in really bad winters. And how many does do you know of that die from fighting or wounds during the rut.Those things added to the many more bucks harvested during the hunting season, and it doesn't look good for the balanced sex ratio.