WV Hunter

Nice post Jeff Some folks just don' t get it.
Personally, I don' t see why so many folks get so upset at AR' s. Yes, if someone is new to hunting, or a youngster, and they haven' t killed much of anything...it may be a little frustrating to have to pass on anything. But for folks that have experience, and have plenty of kills under their belts......why wouldn' t you want to pass up the young bucks? Shoot a doe or two or three or ten instead.

JRW

NorthJeff,

I was responding to the title of this thread; " antler restrictions, Your Fellings" . I wasn' t commenting on Alt, or whoever. Nor was I attacking QDM...this time.

Personally, I tire of people who assess levels of value to game animals based on the amount of bone growing out of their heads, which is why I repsonded with " more trophy hunter garbage" .

JRW

skeeter 7MM

Would you guys just forget about the darn " HORNS" for a minute already. The objective is to create a healthy herd, equal ratios that is with in the carry capacity of habitat. I understand your a meat hunter, you are looking for steaks, roasts, etc. But if you allow loading(ratios) to continue you will have many things other than an unbalanced(which equals unhealthy) herds to deal with. CWD, other disease' s, car/deer collosions, no real hard rut....the list goes on. How is that going to help fill the BBQ. Look at it this way, you' ll have many more quality steaks to chase with solid Deer Management.

Age/maturity levels have everything to do with health of the herd. Antler have nothing really to do with the health, (many factors determine year to year antler growth...most of which are out of the control of your DNR any way) All things being equal (food, nutrient, stress levels and ratios) antler growth is a by product of solid deer management and deer herd health.

It would seem the real issue is you don' t like being told what to shoot??? It takes the fun out of the sport???? The best way to deal with the DNR' s decision is blame the other side: Trophy Hunters! I guess they must have the numbers and the louder voice?????? I doubt that is the case.

wulff

had to pass 3 bucks this year because of our new law [:' (] which i would never do: i hunt to eat, antler stew does not taste good [X(] and as for me personnally i don' t belive in harvesting a deer because of his antler size[&:]

PILOT

NO, ricoace it indicates AGE!!!! DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT A HEALTHY DEER HERD IS ONE WITH VERY FEW MATURE MALES? I agree with what they are tring to do in PA but not necessarily the way they are trying to do it. By killing all the six and eight point racked 1 1/2 yr old bucks and letting the other spikes, forks etc. survive you are actually killing the genetically superior bucks in the herd. A much better measurement of age is antler spread and main beam length.

QDM is not all about killing big bucks so you can get your name in some book. Its about healthy and balanced deer herds. Most places across the country have buck to doe ratios that are severly out of wack and this is do to the misconception that killing a spike buck is more manly then killing a mature doe. Thankfully a good number of people are waking up and realizing this is not the way to go if a balanced and healthy deer herd is what is desired. Yes balanced and healthy go hand in hand.

An unbalance deer herd causes much strain on bucks with a rut that lasts for a stretch of months instead of weeks. In many parts of the northern range this spells the demise of these bucks who go into the coldest part of the winter after losing 20% of their body weight.

Look at the facts man!

JRW

Wulff,

By someone' s who' s ultimate end game is telling me to pass deer and let them grow bigger racks so he can has a better chance of putting his name in the book? You bet.

Yes. Antler worshiping does.

Well, I have yet to see a meat hunter whoop and wail at a guy for shooting a forkhorn. So you tell me who' s doing the bawling.

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Pilot,

And big racks are just a coincidental byproduct? How nice. I' m sure that never entered anyone' s mind, right? No offense, but don' t whizz in my ear and tell me it' s raining.

Well, let' s see. In the last three seasons alone I' ve filled 13 antlerless tags and one buck tag with a mature 10-pointer. That' s 14 deer and only one with a rack, and in areas where the DNR says the herd needs reduction. If I feel inclined to shoot the first forkhorn down the trail on opening day this year would that be alright with you? Or will shooting a buck well short of the hallowed " trophy status" cast me into the great unwashed of bowhunting?

JRW

NorthJeff

Trophy Management:
*Selective culling of bucks in the 3.5 to 4.5 year old age class due to inferiority.
*Passing on bucks until 5.5 to 6.5 to experience the full potential of antler growth.
*Establishing 1:1 ratios.
*Genetic minipulation.
*Fenced operations and private properties of a minimum 1000 acres.
*Year-round supplemental feeding to encourage higher carrying capacities.

Quality Deer Management:
*Protection of yearling bucks.
*Populations maintained below the carrying capacity of the land.
*Adequate sex ratios(usually around 2.2 does to 1 buck-not counting fawns)

Just some facts:
*It has been proven with numerous studies that rack sizes of a yearling bucks do not indicate potential. Ex: A spike has just as much chance of being superior as an 8 point. Also, professional game managers are recognizing this and holding off on culling deer until 3.5 years of age-the first age where signs of inferiority is the most definant-again this is only in the case of TDM, not QDM.

*QDM is about overall health of the herd. If you feel the overall health of the herd is being forced upon you, maybe you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself are you in this for yourself, or the deer and the future of hunting. Brian Murphy, the Executive Director of the QDMA has harvested 90+ does in the past 10 years, 1 Button Buck, and 3 bucks. Trophy Management??

*Many of you guys say you want to harvest a deer only for meat, so the size of the rack doesn' t matter, but in many cases, having a rack does indeed matter. How many does have you shot? You say it' s about the meat, so how many does? Also, a 2.5 year old buck will have, on average, 30 to 50% more meat than a yearling buck(1.5 year old). It' s all about the meat you say?? You say it' s all about the meat, but then you shoot a yearling buck with 1/2 as much meat as a mature buck or doe. It' s about the meat?


Jeff...U.P. of Michigan
Protection of yearling bucks + Populations maintained below the carrying capacity of the land + Adequate sex ratios = QDM

Bigpapascout

I feel there is a need for antler restrivtions at times to thin out the larger doe populations and to help ensure that there are going to be enough bucks for the next season to repopulate the Deer heards.
hunters are more likeley to let a doe walk than a spike buck.
I say let them go so they can grow to be trophy bucks.
besides does tastes better
we can all do our part by taking more does to equal out the ratios.

WV Hunter

JRW....I think you are a closet QDM' r [&:]

If I recall correctly....you killed an awful nice buck this year, and promptly entered him in the record books....right? hmmmm
I think that' s great and hats off to you.....and since it appears you are already doing qdm...(whether intentional or not), why do you have such a problem with it?

I think Jeff is right.....many of the folks that claim to be meat hunters, are the ones that have problems with QDM. (or AR' s) If it' s not important to someone that kill a buck...why would they care if there are AR' s?

hafa8pt

wvhunter, for myself I passed on some awfully nice deer that would have been meat on the table. Instead I had to let them pass only because I could not tell if they were legal. Honestly I would not have eaten the horns anyway!

I appreciate the responses to this topic and I would end this thread if I new how only because I don' t believe in kicking a dead horse.
Thanks to all!