Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...*POLL*
 

If you read some of my previous posts, you saw me make mention of making the switch from RH to LH due to being left eye dominant. Well I recieved some mixed advice, and decided to take the plunge. I have a LH 101st on the way, LH limbdriver, and plan to reuse my quiver and flip my CJ comp sight. Well, I was out shooting a bit today (I needed to get out, and I'm just starting to get over being sick), and decided to play more with my anchor point and my eyes. I wasn't concerned with hitting my mark, moreso with getting tight groups. I decided to try a variety of anchor points (all of which if I kept would require DRASTIC movement of my peep, but still doable). I was able to get some really tight groups at 20-30 yds, and pretty consistant. I was also able to realize that by just slightly squinting my left eye (not shutting it), I can get rid of the double vision while maintaining better peripheral vision than I had before by shutting my left eye completely. Does this mean I'm not as strongly left eye dominant as I thought?

A couple of reasons why I'm doubting my decision are:

For one, I recently strained a muscle in my left arm that is certainly going to interfere with me pulling back on a LH bow (the 101st will be 60#, but still 60# on a binary cam may still be too much for it).

I also feel like I will need to be blank bailing for a long time, and then slowly work myself out to small yardages before I get comfortable enough to shoot normal distances. I'm not sure how long all of this will take, but I'm still not confident I can do it.

Then there's the advice I recieved from some members on here who I respect about the situation (one even shoots right handed but is left eye dominant...Matt/PA), and they mentioned that in reality, it's more about consistant anchor/form and shot execution than it is about eye dominance. Obviously, it's working just fine for Matt/PA given his shooting resume, and the more I think about it, I'm wondering if I'm using this switch as a justification (or excuse rather) for poor form/bad shooting. I told Matt my BIGGEST issues right now are
Trouble finding a CONSISTANT anchor
Troube keeping the pin steady (I'm always dropping my bow arm, and the fighting it back upwards, and then I start to shake more).

Part of me wonders if I'm even going to see any difference between going from RH to LH other than maybe a wider field of view. Everyone on AT seems to swear once they switched to left handed, they were shooting AMAZING compared to shooting with the non-dominant eye, but then there's Matt/PA, Dave Cousins (I believe), RJ's friend who's a state/national champ, etc whom all shoot right handed but are left eye dominant.

I've been shooting right handed since I was 14 (I'm 23 now), and it feels so natural, I'm just not sure it will ever be the same left handed. Plus I really love the availability of equipment/bows (especially used) RH, whereas LH used equipment is about non-exisistant.

Of course I'm thinking about all of this AFTER I ordered everything, but I suppose that's how it goes. So, am I just over-reacting or what? Should I wait for the bow to get here, and spend months training with it to see if I actually like it, or just sell the equipment, save some money, and improve my form?

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

I don't DEIGN to be near the shooter Matt is, but I shoot right-handed and am left-eye dominant myself -- and I consider myself an above-average shooter.

I was re-watching Michael Braden's "Straight Talk" DVD last night as I begin mentally preparing myself for my 3d campaign, and he clearly has to squint his left eye as he prepares to shoot; it's even a legitimate step in his shot sequence he has written down.

I agree with Matt's advice above... proper form, stance, weight distribution, anchor points combined with a mentally tough approach could serve you as well as making a wholesale switch.

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

Unless you like waiting for 4 momths on average for bows, I'd stick with a Right handed one.

Dude if you would have PM me I would sent you a LH hoyt to play with. DL adjust 26.6-29, you could have shot it all summer. I sold all my LH's to buy these two knew ones.

I had 6:D

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

Thanks for the input Greg...didn't know you were also one of the right hand/left eye dom shooters. We must have more of us on here than I thought. Any idea as to what could be causing my bow arm to want to drop? I really am torn here because there's a lot of folks who REALLY are adiment about shooting with your dominant eye no matter what, then there's plenty of those who say it's not as big of an issue as people make it out to be.

LOL darn it! I never would have thought you had 6 bows[:@] Have you always been shooting left handed? Are you left eye dominant? I hear you on the availability though, just trying to find some used accessories to outfit this bow was a nightmare. I ended up having to buy the rest new, and it took a few weeks just to find a used left hand bowtech for sale[&:]

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

Yes I am a true leftie.

If it does not workout I may buy the rest and bow from you;) I bought a pile of bows at Cabelas when I worked there.
Buying anything leftie sucks:D

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

Although I agree that form and consistant anchors are the most important part of shooting consistantly.AND,the release.The Eye dominance comes into play as far as comfort,tension and field of view.I squint as well to make sure I am centered on my housing,but I open immediately after I have alignment.


There is a reason that MOST pofessional coaches will recommend shooting with the dominant eye.That doesn't mean that all pros do.There will always be exceptions to any rule.

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

I may be off the mark here, as I haven't had any "official" coaching by a pro like some of the members here have had, but my first guess would be to say it's a discipline problem... In other words, you must stay disciplined to stay "with" the shot, to have a proper follow-through.

I'm guessing you're dropping the arm to see where the arrow's hitting, or something of that nature. Concentrate on aiming, let the act of firing the bow be more of a subconsious act that you just "let happen" (which may requiresometime put towards blank-bailing if it's not happening that way), and concentrate on burning your pin into the X until well after the shot is over with. Don't worry about where the arrow goes; even if you could see it before it hits the target, you're still not going to change its impact point. Execute your shot sequence correctly, and it'll go where it needs to.

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

I second Germ's sentiment. Buying LH equipment sucks. plus I sold 2 bows I would have been glad to send you to try out.
I read some of the thread back when you posted about considering the switch. My initial thoughts were that If you're in normal hunting situations, why switch? I know for a fact shooting Right handed for me would be a disaster. I would not, and could not, feel natural. No matter what eye dominance would dictate.

I am a little different than some. I am LH , but I bat RH. I remember my dad trying to get me to switch to RH when I was playing little league as a kid. His reasoning was I could see a baseball better w/ my right eye to bat , I must really be right handed and I must be right eye dominant. I'm neither according to my optomitrist, but my left eye is only slightly dominant. I have NO idea what that means.

I'm not getting to the point very fast. I'll stop rambling.
My point is that, if you have been shooting RH as long as you have , I would think your eyes would adjust to the required task,(shooting RH) even if your left eye is dominant.
I would think this is easier than teaching the other side of your body to hold , aim and shoot a bow comfortably.
I couldn't catch w/ a RH mitt or throw w/ my RH , no way, after a year of trying.
IMO , stay RH.

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

My dad is the same way you are and he shoots right handed. It is too late for him to change now, but he is a damn good shot for being all messed up.:D His anchor is so consistent every time, and I think this allows him to be more accuarate.

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

Told ya so. Na,na,na,nana!!!
As the other southpaws said it sucks. The availability of the equipment is not there and as I stated before if you close your other eye it doesn't make any difference what your domoinate eye is.
If you want to sell your bow list the specs, one can never have enough bows for back up. ;)

Bobby

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

Achieve a surprise release and you won't have time to drop your arm.You must stay strong through the shot using back tensionand not just puch the trigger off,keep aiming untill the release goes off without you punching it and that problem will be solved.

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

Hope things work out for ya M.

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

Thanks for the feedback. As for dropping my bow arm, it's not so much an issue after the shot, whereas when I'm actually aiming. I will line up my pin and try letting it float over the spot, and almost immediately my arm begins to drop, and then I have to fight it back upwards to get it to stay and when I do this, it leads to fatigue and my arm begins to shake even more causing my pin to float much much more.

So, in reality does this element of comfort truly effect the shooting? I certainly understand it's BEST to shot with your dominant eye in theory, but in my situation, I feel like I may be using it as a band-aid fix to a bigger issue (form, anchor issues). In your opinion (and you have the experience so I respect it) is it in my best interest to basically make the all-out switch?

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

Thanks, I do, too.

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

Now that you made the commitment Matt take your time, Im sure you will do fine.

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

I agree on consistency and anchor pointlikeMatt said. I am also right handed but left dominate and i shoot great . it just feels more comfortable and i can pull a higher poundage with my right hand . I can't see how things greatly improve switching to left handed

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

I also have the same problem but over time I have trained my eyes to adjust correctly without haveing to close one eye. The problem is that I am letft handed and do everything lefthanded except for shooting a bow and gun. I started out having problems when I started duck hunting 10 years ago. I was always looking down the barrell sideways with the left dominant eye. That in turn was throwing my shot off. What i did was took a pair of shooting glasses and put some tape over the left lense and shot for over and over at skeet and evenhuntinglike that leaving both eyes open. After about 2 months of this I was able to take the glasses off and had no problem. If my shooting would get off I would stick the glasses back on for a few sessions of shooting to remind my brain what it had to do. I then incorporated this into my bow shooting with a eye patch and it only took about a week for me to get it figured out. This is what worked for me and maybe could help you out. OH and before I did this with a gun I was shooting 70 out of 100 trap. Know I have gone 100 for 100 more than I can remember and i average 97 out 100.

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

This, my friend, is what's referred to as the dreaded TP... unfortunately, I doubt switching bow arms is going to cure that in and of itself... Learning to achieve a surprise release, with back tension, is what's needed here -- along with plenty of time put in on aiming drills without the act of firing the bow.

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

That's what I was afraid of. I suppose either way I'll need to incorporate more aiming excercises/blank bailing. I'm working on the surprise release now that I have my thumb-trigger release, but still.


I added a poll, and I know some of you may think I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill, but I need to really come to a final decision one way or another. I'm either going to have to commit to this LH deal 100% or I can keep doing what I'm doing with my RH setup. Let me tell you guys this...I'm OK with losing the field of view and light gathering advantages of keeping both eyes open IF I won't be SERIOUSLY holding myself back by shooting with my non-dominant eye. For the record, I have excellent vision, so that's not as much of an issue here.

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

Matt,
I know a lot of the recommendations are "text book" that you get.
It would come down to this, for me at least. What FEELS more natural?
You may be forcing yourself to do something your bodymay not be able to domechanically do for the sake of eye dominance. It might come down to the lesser of 2 evils.
You're not a tournament pro. Go with what feel best.

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

You know, I've drawn my bow back left handed before (I made sure I was a mere few yards in front of my bag just in case), and it did feel awkward (but that's expected). It just seems that I hear a lot of "I shot right handed forever, then made the switch to left handed and two months later I was shooting the best I had in my whole life" then I also hear those who really say it doesn't make AS MUCH difference as it's often made out to be. I do everything right handed, but shoot rifles, so of course shooting my bow just seems natural right handed, but if, and here's the problem... IF switching=becoming better than I could be right handed, I'll do it. If I'm being unrealistic, and that's the improvements that come with switching are somewhat minimalistic, then it's not worth it.

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

Here's one for you... I've often heard that eye dominance can change in life much as our taste buds do... if it changes on down the road, do you change back with it? [8D]

I'll tell you this... I mentioned I consider myself an above-average shot with a bow... I consider myself an EXPERT rifle shot. I honestly never missed a target throughout basic and MP school with an M-16 and just the old post and peep hole sights... qualified expert, obviously -- and expert as well with a pistol. I've killed close to if not well over a thousand rabbits with shotgun and .22... I used to regularly shoot dragonlfys and swallows out of the air with my BB gun when I was young just by following their flight path and waiting for a split-second pause and I'd drop them... I shoot guns the same way I do bows... right handed, and I close my left eye. ;)

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

Impressive...you make a convincing argument;)

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

Matt you need to get that blinder I told you about and stick with it right handed IMHO.

A good consistent anchor point is important but I'm not convinced that your floating down problem is from TP or anything form oriented. Can you take a picture of your loop and post it here to share with us? Can you measure the tiller adjustments on the bow? To do this tie a string from axle to axle and then measure tiller from limb pocket to string on both ends. I think it's entirely possible you could tiller tune the issue your explaining away, or possibly change it by modifying where your loop is located on the string.

Just a thought........

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

I agree, it could be some TP, or it may be that you need to drop weight a little, to where you're more comfortably holding the bow back, and work on form for a while, then start bringing the weight back up. I had to do this to get my stuff back in order. In addition, I dropping weight also helped me when I was having TP issues.

As for "EYE DOMINACE," I am LEFT HANDED, 100%, but a BAD Left Shoulder, took me out of the game or archery, so I switched. I have a good strong healthy right shoulder, but the left isn't so good. Granted, the shoulder takes a little torture when shooting a LOT, but shooting 100-150 shots a day it tolerates fairly well, get much over that, and I'm sorry. I can vary my eye dominance by which hand is holding a pistol, so to speak, so if you can vary eye dominance, it would help, but if you are severely LEFT EYE dominant, I think you'll likely find that a LEFTY set-up will serve you well. I also got away from my HORRIBLE form issues I had as a LEFTY archer when I switched to Righty, because I had to basically LEARN all over again.

Good Luck whichever you do.

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

Matt, with what little experience I have, tiller is what was coming to mind with the bow dropping down (after reading the sticky in the technical forum, it sounds similar to what I'm experiencing). I'll get tiller measurements for you tomorrow. As for a picture of my loop, how close of a picture do you need? Below is one of how everything is setup right now. Ignore my release hand, I've changed my grip and anchor since then. Loop has stayed the same.

ALSO: I'm shooting AT LEAST .5" too long of a DL. Rob thinks I should be about 28.5" and I'm shooting 29".

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

I just want a closeup picture of the loop on the string, you don't need to draw it. Just zoom in on the loop itself and post it up. This will tell me a lot.

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

I'm right eye/handed and I've been shooting south paw my entire life. Ikeep my right eye completely shut. I hear guys talkin' about peripheral vision being improved with both eyes open, butwhen i'm locked onto the vitals, I don't want to know what else is going on. . . I'm tunnel vision all the way. I'm not going to be winning any shooting competitions any time soon, but I do ok in the field. I'd be working on anchor-point, but if you've already paid, you might as well give it a shot . . .and let me know how it goes, cuz you're right about us lefty guys, I've never had the chance to shoot a bow before the purchase . . they always have to order it [:@]

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

deleted,just saw picture

Matt has got this covered;)

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

Draw length looks pretty good from this angle.


You can use a blinder as Matt suggest,but you may be missing out on something by not atleastTRYING left handed.

I wouldn't suggest spending the kind of cash you plan on to try it though.

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

I fought the eye dominance problem for years, and then made the switch to LH at Christmas, as far as shooting and hunting it was one of the best things I have done concerning my shooting. I also was recovering from a severley pulled muscle in my left arm, it didn't bother me to much...I am stronger in my right arm and could probably pull back a 80# bow if necessary,but I could not make the eye work right, in going LHI just had to adjust my poundage down for awile, I actually started with another bow with a 50# drawback and slowly worked my way to 65#. It will be ackward for awhile, but just stay with it. Even today I still shoot some RH without sights of course and can maintain a kill shot at 25yrds.

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

I already did...

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

Explain what you mean by the best thing you could have done for your shooting. Has your accuracy improved dramatically? Even in a months time? Or was it just light gathering/focusing ability that improved. I plan to draw my bow back when it gets here and see how it goes. I may just play with drawing drills to see how it feels, and I'll have a better idea on whether or not it's going to work for me or not. Btw, great quote in your sig. Love the movie.

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

Ok I have pictures and tiller measurements for Matt and anyone else who can offer input. Matt, I wasn't sure how much of the loop/bow you wanted in the picture (I don't even know what you're looking for[&:]), so here's two shots.







Now, my tiller measurements resulted in a ~3/16" difference, with it being longer from limb pocket to the string I tied around the axles up top than it was on the bottom.

Finally, here's a picture I took just now of my new anchor that is comfortable to me. If I were to keep this, I would need to move my peep up quite high. I also noticed this pictured (compared to those in the big fat shooting thread) my release arm/elbow is angling up instead of straight back. Not a good thing I imagine. You can also see my bow arm dipping as well.

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

I am have no experience with LH accessories as I am in the exact position that Matt was in. I know I am strongly left eye dominant and I have too made the plunge. My new bow will be in approx two weeks after I ordered it. Is that long to wait for a bow? I would much rather be going the other way for the slightly used discount market that is out there.

I truly think that you are obsessing too much about this Matt. AT this point you still have the RH Ross, keep it. You already shelled out for the LH setup, keep it. Work on the LH shooting and if it comes and you see the benefit, shoot that way and be happy for the improvement. If not or if you aren't ready by hunting season, hunt the Ross. I don't see a downside except for time spent with a bow in your hands and thats a good thing in my mind. Since we are both gonna be doing the same thing, we will probably have a blast with it. If you don't go down the road far enough you can't see where it goes. Maybe I am off my rocker but I am gonna give it a shot. If I was only hunting, I would still have the Commander (RH). But I want to go further with the 3D thing so I want every advantage in my corner.

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

Well that's the thing. Allow TECHNICALLY I can afford to keep both bows, I wasn't planning on it. I was planning to sell one or the other...keep the LH and dive full on in, or back out and sell the LH AND the Ross for a newew RH bow. Are you planning to do dry drawing drills and then blank bailing for a month or so, or are you going to jump right into it?

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

alittle of both, but mostly jumping right in...it's who i am:D

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

Lol, this is true.

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

This picture shows what I had assumed.

First thing you need to do is add turns to the top limb pocket/subtract from the bottom till you get your desired draw weight, and the tiller measured this way is even.

Once you get this done, I'd recommend shooting the bow for a couple dozen arrows. At this point you want to look at the loop and see where the release is sitting. You can see from the wear on your loop picture above that your release is sitting at full draw above the nock of the arrow. This could be due to tiller adjustments (3/16" is a big difference) or it could be simply be from the nocks/loop being in the wrong spot. You want that to be in the right spot and then adjust the rest for proper nock height (probably 1/8" high or so on most single cams). You can seein the picwhere the loopis kinked from the release, it's not inline with the arrow, you are drawing and holding that bow from a position above where the center of the string is. As an analogy, think of it this way..........imagine trying to draw the bow from 4" under the top idler wheel. What direction would the bow want to point if you did get it back this way? ;)

So in short:

Add turns to the top limb/subtract from the bottom until your tiller = 0 on both ends

Shoot a couple dozen arrows to get some wear on the loop and see what your holding characteristics are like

Analyze what the loop looks like and see where the release is sitting in relation to your nock

Move the nock points/loop accordingly

Fine tune tiller at this point to get the holding characteristics you want. Add to the top to get it to float without dropping and vice versa.

RE: Switch to LH...Having second thoughts...
 

And I wouldn't do much with your form. It looks pretty good. If you are in a relaxed state and can use tension in your back to hold your shot without tension creeping into your arms/shoulders or anywhere else, I wouldn't do much else with it.