I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

Well, I heard something today that I found to be completely ridiculous. The fiance and I (yes, I'm getting married soon[:-]) went to meet the DJ who will be working the reception. Seemed like a pretty stand-up guy and we've seem him in action too. Somehow we got on the subject of bowhunting. This is where it gets interesting. We were sharing stories and then he told me one that intrigued me, to say the least. He double-lunged a buck and it took that buck 4 hoursto die. Supposedly, he shot the buck and watched it run up the hillside and fall over. It then rolled-over and kicked its legs up into the air. The deer then rolled back over and sat in the bedded position and finally expired about 4 hours later.

He then went on to say "If I don't hit one directly in the heart than I'll wait at least 8 hours before tracking." I like to keep an open mind about things but c'mon. Seems a little impossible IMO for a deer to live 4 hours on a double lunged shot. Maybe this guy needs to brush up on his anatomy.[&:]

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

I don't know, I've seen a double lunged buck run a long ways.

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

true dat, idoubled lunged a buck one time and he ran more than half a mile!

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

DOuble Lung they got about 5 seconds of air! No if and or buts about it!:DI beleieve there was a story on here b4 about someone shooting a deer double lung and it living for a ridiculous amount of time! I dont see how you live when you can not breath?:eek:

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

For me to believe a double lung hit animal of any kind live more than minutes I'd have to see it for myself. One lung sure... Double no way...

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

I would like to see the anotomy on that those deer I would bet they were single lung and possibly some muscle or diaphram around the lung. You put on threw the center of both lungs its lethal within seconds.

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

I agree with that but could that buck run for 4 hours or live for 4 hours after his 1/2 mile sprint?

I'm not necessarily saying a buck can't run a long ways but can one live 4 hours after being shot through both lungs? At least this guy is willing to wait out what he thinks is less than a marginal shot. Props for that but I think waiting 8 hours to track a double lunged deer is excessive.

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

Double Lung I watch them fall and pack up and go get them!

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

Ditto. I guess anything is possible though.

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

I don't doubt anything anymore, but that seems unlikely. What I wonder is if you catch a certain part of a deer's lung if it would still have partial use of that lung. For example, in this case if you caught the top lobe of the lung toward the back and the deer fell over maybe the way the deer was laying would create a seal over the wound and prevent the lung from filling with blood. It is possible that the deer could survive some time with partial use of one lung. This is all theory.

Any thoughts?

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

I was thinking the same thing! Maybe they just nicked one lung and blew threw the other and said hell thats a double lung shot!

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

Slicing the lungs alone will take some time to cause the deer to die from lack of oxygen. Even with damage to the lungs they are still able to process some oxygen to the blood. It is blood loss that is the main kill mechanism and there is some change that a broadhead will miss all major arteries and veins. My father double lunged one in the early 90’s that went 1.5 miles. I shot one in 2002 that sliced that back end of both lungs and he lived almost 6 hours. When we opened him up to gut him both lungs were completely full of blood, it just took a long time for him to bleed enough. Is it extremely rare? Yes. Is it impossible? No.

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

Anything is possible but 9 times out of 10 this isn't going to happen. Keep shooting for the lungs, there your biggest target!;)

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

Absolutely! I was not trying to say otherwise and if it came across as such I apologize.

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

I would say this story is possible if you clip both of the lungs, but if you punch a hole in the middle of them and the lungs collapse, then no way. 10 seconds tops and that deer is done!

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

I thought it was here, a guy posted video of a double lunged doe, that lived for a ridicuously long time.
Someone back me up here. It was a couple or more seasons ago.

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

I didn't even read through the replies Huntingson before I posted. I hope you didn't think i was taking aim at you.;) What you said I'm sure is true.

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

I don't know here, I have made the same shot on different deer and see them react differently. In my experiences I have shot one deer through the lungs (double) and it would go 30 yards and done. The next deer with the same double lung would go 60 yards and done...I suppose thats where "will to live" comes into play, However the only deer I have seen in my harvest's that will live longer will be single lung shots,I have nevershot a deer double lunged, that I didn't pack my stuff and go get my animal.

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

Must not have been shooting Rages....:D[8D]

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

I always take the double lung shot.If you double lung a deer with a sharp,legal and penetrating shot,the deer is dead within minutes.The blood rushes in the lungs like a garden hose,death is certain and fast.I've bowkilled over a hunderd deer this way,so I amtalking with experiance.
As far as you DJ is concerned,I think his "spin"on his "platter" has some "skips"...Bob

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

If a human can survive after having a chest tube in one lung and the other lung collapsed than whycant a deersurvive after having a hole in both of there lungs?

I think he was probaly tellin the truth, hell, last year on rt97 I saw a doe get almost cut in half buy a minivan and it still lived for 3 hrs til the dnr came.

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

A true dbl lung deer, and I mean perfectly hit both lungs no doubt about it kind of lung hit, the deer will live tops 10 seconds, tops. If you hit a deer this way, most of the time you watch them die. Noone on herehas made a true dbl lunger and have the deer go 1.5 miles. It is not possible.now rip me open for this one....

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

They can cover a lot ground, but it will be at a dead run over fairly short amount of time. I highly doubt a double lung shot deer is going to keep moving for 4 hours. I don't think he made as good a shot as he thinks he did.

Paul

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

Thats my guess too but what if....:)

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

I suppose if one hits a buck double lung it could run aways I have seen that but four hours is impossible

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

yeah, im calling bull on that to!! I agree, c'mon!!

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

I rifle hunt with a 30-06 150 gr bullets. I shot a 210# buck 4 years ago. the first bullet hit him facing me in the center of the brisket. He ran about 30 yds and stopped. I walked closer and could see his head and front shoulders. I shot him again behind the front shoulder. I later found out he was quartering away hard. The bullet entered just in front of the hind quarter and traveled forward thru the guts. He didn't even flinch! I circled around and assumed he must be hung up on something. When I got broadside to him I realized he was just standing there. I shot him again broadside thru the lungs and he took off running. He went about 50 yds and layed down. He was just sitting there looking around. I walked up to within a few feet and he jumped up and ran again! He went about 30 yds and layed down again. This time he was too sick to get up. If this didn't happen to me I don't think I would believe it. They can be tough critters!
PS I switched to premium loads:D

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

Exactly my thoughts... I've shot deer that I thought were double lunged and went a long way. I was WRONG!!! It's not physically possible.

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

no way!

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

Who was it that shot the deer in the heart last year and it lived like a day? He had pics too....

Before you all call foul....All double lung hits are NOT equal, if you ever dressed a few deer you know that. My guess(and that is all it is) is that he hit the upper portion of both lungs....a deer can survive a long time that way.

I watched a buck last season take a .50 cal HP muzzleloader bullet through pretty much the middle of both lungs AND blow the complete top off of its heart....and run a full 210 yards before piling up. Rare and suprising, yes, but never say never.

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

Tell him to sharpen his broadheads and he won't have that problem. Dull BH's will cause those kind of things.

If you send a razor sharp BH thru both lungs, no deer is going to live 4 hours. Or travel a mile.

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

I double lunged a 7 point in 1999. 15 yrd shot watched the arrow punch throughh the top of one lung and exit out the bottom on the oppisite side. The derr spun around ran not more than 40 yrds. I watched him pile up on the ridge beside me. After I regainded my composure I went to retrieve him (20 minutes or so). When I topped the ridge and approached him he sprang back to life and left the country. I backed out, went to get some help for the tracking job and came back about 2 hrs latter. The deer only went about 60 - 70 more yards but, I was dumb founded that he was even able to lift his head! Granted this was not 4 hrs. but them dudes can be pretty tough!

ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE????

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

Absolutely right on, VA .... I got your back ...

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

Ya ther tough!
About 5 years back I had wiped out bird hunting landing on a pointy boulder and bruised 3 ribs my kidney and lung.
So after I healed (ya-sure) I went out muzzleloading 6-days later.
A 6 pointer came into my stand about 40 yards away and had to lean way over to get the shot off.
Talk about pain... Well the shot was off by a foot and went right through the gut.
The buck ran 40 yards and I could see the intestines hanging out, so I reloaded and shot him again.
The angle on the 2nd shot was almost facing away, so I picked the bulge on his gut a squeezed the trigger.
At least this shot I could hold steady using my knee as the gun rest. I waited 10 minutes and went to get him.
Well, he ran off and I decided to give him another 20 minutes, running another 125 yards before dying.
After gutting out the huge mess, the 2nd bullet went through his whole stomach and into his chest, it buried into his front shoulder and nipped his heart.

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

To answer your question: Physics namely a lack of negative intrapleural pressure.

When mammals breathe they do so by contracting their diaphragm muscle. The diaphragm is not directly attached to the lungs. The lungs are surrounded by a layer of slimy tissue called the pleura. There is also a layer of pleura on the inside of the diaphragm, the ribs and surroungding the heart. The pleura is waterproof and airtight, think of saran wrap. The pressure inbetween the layers of pleura is lower than outside air. When the diaphragm and other breathing muscles (internal intercostals, sternocleidomastoids, etc) contract they pull the ribs and diaphragm away from the lungs. Since the pleureal pressure is less than outside air and also less than inside the lungs, the pleural layers "stick" together and the external pleural layer pulls the internal pleural layer with it expanding the lungs causing negative pressure in the lungs relative to the external air and air comes in.

When the pleural seal is broken, the diaphragm and other breathing muscles can contract all they want and it's not gonna do a damn thing because the pleural space has lost its pressure gradient relative to the external air and the air in the lungs. With the pleural space interrupted on both sides as in a true double lung shot, it is impossible for a deer or any other animal to breathe. This means they will be able to go as far as the oxygen they currently have in their blood will take them and no further. Realistically this means death in seconds, not minutes and definitely not hours.

If a deer is "double-lunged" and live for minutes or even hours afterwards, both lungs were no punctured.




To address the first part, a human can survive a second collapsed lung if and only if they have a chest tube or some other similar type device working to re-expand the 1st collapsed lung. I love deer and I know how to put chest tubes in, but I have never seen a deer with a chest tube in nor can I envision a scenario where I would even think about putting a chest tube in a deer. As such, deer CANNOT survive having bilateral collapsed lungs.

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

The buck I shot 02 ran near a 1/2 mile before dropping with no heart, figure that one out.....

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

;)Exactly
I am postive most hunters look at where the arrow entered and exited to tell if it was a doublelung. I look at the lungs and look on every shot. All I can say is I never seen a deer I shotrun more than 80 yds with a double lung shot.

In my 20+ year I have leanred one thing, a lot of people who hunt really don't know anything about whitetails[&:]

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

I understand you guys not believing my story, but I swear it is true. Now, I will fully admit that the buck that lived 6 hours was a back of both lungs slice and not a full punch through and obviously wasn't a great shot. However, the 9 point my dad shot in 1991 in Vinton county Ohio went (guesstimated here) 1.5 miles. He was shooting 125gr Thunderheads (3-blade). It was a miracle he found that deer as it piled up under a bush. Both lungs had been punched clean through. Not looking at entry/exit holes, looking at the lungs upon gutting the deer.

You can call me a liar and I wouldn't really blame you b/c if I didn't know any better I would be thinking the same thing, but it happened. I can't explain it but it happened.

When my father worked in the ER he also treated a man who had been shot in the head at point blank range with a .22 and he was sitting up talking. The bullet entered right between the eyes, just above the eyebrows and lodged in the back of his head. He should have died but he didn't. Anything is possible... just improbable.;)

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

Good point. Adrenaline can take a buck longer than he is 'anatomically and physiologically' possible. But four hours is quite some time. Gut shot deer often die sooner that if they havent been pushed.

RE: I know deer are incredible animals but c'mon...
 

I learned this lesson in 2006. My 10 point I made a double lung hit (comfirmed in field dressing) he run about 300 yards. We found him about an hr. after I shot him and he was still alive. It took him about 1:15 to die.